The Huddle - Episode 206. From the Field to the Boardroom: Leading When You've Done the Work
There's a unique kind of credibility that comes from having done the job yourself.
The best leaders in the trades often started in the field. They've worked through difficult installations, dealt with unhappy customers, managed jobsite challenges, and learned firsthand what it takes to get the work done. That experience can become a tremendous asset in leadership, but it doesn't automatically make someone a great leader.
This week on The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose discuss the transition from installer to leader and the lessons that come with it. The conversation explores how field experience shapes decision-making, why leadership requires a different skill set than installation, and how successful leaders earn respect while guiding teams toward a larger vision.
Leading people is different than doing the work yourself. The challenge is learning when to step in, when to step back, and how to help others succeed using the lessons you've learned along the way.
If you've ever moved from the jobsite into a leadership role (or hope to someday), this episode offers valuable perspective on what that transition really looks like.
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[music] What is up, guys? Welcome back to the Huddle, the number one podcast in
flooring. We're here every single week to help you guys gain forward progress in your career. Simply put, we're here
to help you win. For all our new viewers, welcome to the team.
Welcome everybody. What's up, Mr. Daniel? How's it going? Looks like Jose got in
there on the mobile device and got worked through technology things. Yeah,
we can hear you fine. Geez. Well, I'm glad to have both you on and
you guys I hope uh have had a great week and how' the uh you guys were solo
artists last week. The trio was not together.
It's just missing one one small piece, right? Yeah. Just one small piece. That's pretty major. No
big deal. No big deal. Oh, we're all we're all major pieces. I just uh you guys always do so good. I
just um see just wanted to lay back and let us just roll. Huh. Yeah. Yeah.
Just got to watch I still got to watch last week's episode in It went pretty well.
Sweet. Well guys, uh today is
a wonderful Tuesday. Uh our topic today is uh from the field
to the boardroom leading when you've done the work. Uh really talking I think
about um you know there's a lot of opportunity once you decide to kind of
climb off your knees whether that's starting your own flooring store, joining a flooring store as a salesman.
There's we'll talk about a lot of different paths, but um uh we know some
old installers that um that uh you know end up being vice
presidents at mills and all kinds of stuff. So just wanted to kind of explore
the world of what's beyond the world of installation once you kind of have made
your mark there. Today's sponsors, we are solo at trade
tap and the VTI. Uh if you haven't done so yet, go check out trade-tap.com.
And uh that's the new website up and running. Jumpstart, which you guys
should all be excited about as installers where we're going to be uh putting all the new helpers out of the
FCF and other college programs. I should just say college programs. uh they're
available for you to hire and uh that'll be coming down the pipe. But Trade Tap is uh up and running and live. The VTI,
go get your VTI is up and and uh available for new profiles. And then we
just released Trade Tap Pro this week, which is uh the old Go Carrera market
platform, marketplace platform. So, um, go check that out as well. If you're a
VTI guy and you want to to, um, explore some work out in the world, that's your
place to do so. That's going to start getting used, uh, a lot more. Um,
uh, the only thing that we're really not doing is taking on any more company clients at the moment. Uh, that'll be
another month away before we add any uh, future company clients. But, uh, right
now we're growing the VTI. Lots of uh great activity there. So, thanks everybody for your support. Uh please
reach out to me directly paultrade-enttap.com if you have any questions.
I will be scheduling a demo to kind of show you guys uh this and I am going to
hopefully talk my two co-hosts into um uh doing changing out one of our podcast
weeks quick where I might be able to show you a lot of the u uh the good stuff. So, that
being said, back on topic. Um, from the field to the boardroom.
So, you guys know a lot of guys in the rep world and
um whether it's technical reps, sales reps as such. How many percentage would
you guess are past installers? a good percentage these days. It didn't
always used to be like that, but I'm glad to see that it's going that way because it's like we always talk about
that progression from installer to what are you doing when
I guess when you can't do it anymore or when you're over it, right? You only got so many miles on your knees, so what are
you going to do after that? So, I'm glad to see that, you know, that percentage has gone up these these past few years.
Uh, and on on the flip side, I don't know how many there used to be, right? But it
is getting up there to where, you know, we're talking to people and it's always they used to be an installer.
And I've noticed um I've noticed that so so like if I'm looking at local
distributors, a lot of our local uh distribution reps um might not be ex
installers, but a lot of the national reps um you know that that cover more
region and that are more technical side and do they're more exinstallers. Not
saying everybody, I'm just saying that that's what I've noticed. Um yeah, you know, the tech rep has always
been pretty well represented by installation. Um
the let me answer uh
Jose's uh question. Is this not live on YouTube? No, we're not live on YouTube,
but it will go to YouTube when we're done. We're live on Facebook, Instagram,
I think maybe Uh, what else we live on, Daniel? Are we live on Tik Tok as well? Are we able to?
No. Twitch, LinkedIn, but typically I'll go to the preferred
flooring YouTube. It's uh, but it's not letting me do anything. I'm
actually going to sign back in real quick. So, I'll be right back.
All right. So, Daniel's gonna sign back in. Try to get get [clears throat] that going for you there, Jose. Uh, but the
technical reps have always there's always seemed to be a pretty good
representation of exin installers in there, but uh I I agree. I've seen a lot more
sales reps and territory reps and things like that that are are past installers.
And you know, like your brother said, I think it's pretty encouraging. But the
point of this podcast is to point out like the best of the best installers are
typically the guys that get these jobs. The ones who've made a name for himself in installation are usually the ones
that get these jobs. Uh so that's just more of a reason for you to present
yourself uh professionally to if you want a b a more of a uh desk job or a a
coordinator or a manager, a leadership job uh at one of the mills or one of
those things. That's where you know they they definitely are going for the cream of the crop. So, uh, just another reason
to to do what we always tell you here on the podcast, you know, be be professional, have a great attitude, you
know, go to every training and certification you can get to and become
one of those guys that can be, you know, snagged up by a Mohawk, Shaw, Interface,
Milicanin, you know, uh, one of these large companies. And there's, you know,
100 distributors on top of that that would would probably hire as well. So,
yeah, it's a great outlet. Product knowledge is is huge, right? And and and not only
that by itself, but you mix product knowledge with a little bit of hands-on experience or a lot of hands-on
experience and you can relate to a lot more than just uh one crowd.
Well, I think the manufacturer Yeah. Yeah, the M I'm sorry I interrupted. I was still in your flame right there.
That's exactly what I was going to say. Yeah. Yeah. Manufactur with you, brother. I'm driving. So, I appreciate it. And I'm sorry for being via mobile
today, but I I had a couple issues at home with my garage door and I had to make it to the place before it closed.
So, but yeah, carry on with with that. No, I was just going to say the same thing you were leading into, which is
that manufacturers seem to be taking recognition of the fact that uh the
exinstaller relates to the guys that he's, you know,
supporting and and um repping to the installation uh folks a lot better than
just somebody who's never touched a a piece of flooring. So, it's one of those things where I think they're starting to
see the value of hiring exin installers, but that doesn't mean you can be just a
scrub. You got to be a good credentialized exin installer. And, uh,
I think that's a really great outlet if you're wanting to go that way. Um there's many other like uh we touched on
earlier tech reps which is out working with the the field guys a lot of job
starts that kind of stuff. If I was if I was redoing my career I would that's one
of the fields I would love is going out and helping guys get job starts. You know Sherox is known for this kind of
thing and uh that that that would be a fun job for me. Um, another path that
all three of us has take have taken is we went out and started our flooring companies. Um, I know many who joined
flooring companies, some of our project managers are exinstallers here. So, you
know, both of you guys being installers yourselves, what do you think about hiring, you know, a seasoned vet into
your office and teaching them the the ins and outs of the desk?
It's hard. Go ahead, dude. It It is hard because even we had a
really hard time to begin with. Um, it's just a different pace of
It's totally different because that I will always say that you know in the field we just go out there and you do
the work. You don't have to think about it. When you're in the office it's using your brain 100% of the time. It's like
and since we didn't have that any like formal training on the business side of
things or on the leadership side of things, it's it's a constant learning
thing, right? where we we tell people to do it in the field all the time, but
that carries over even more so when you're on the other side of things because you're not just looking at the
installation anymore. You're looking at, you know, from the sales all the way through the installation and making
you got all those things you you got all those things you're trying to um juggle,
right? Pro you got to make profit. That's one ball. You got to get the jobs. Yeah,
you got to keep your crews happy. So, you you're caring about others during
this whole thing. You're trying to make sure that your crews are set up and they're they're happy doing work, you
know, they're enjoying working with you uh as the store, you know, and and
there's a lot more concerns of getting equipment out to job sites and materials picked up and legit. you just go into
logistics, accounting, leadership, all these things when you step into the office, but that's not to scare you guys
away. What I'm telling you, and I think Daniel's telling you, is be prepared for a a big shift change in your mindset.
And and the way you use your body, it's a different type of exhaustion. And I'd love to
I want you guys to tell me about this. So, what what's the difference in exhaustion
between a long day out in the field and a long day in the office? Well, you can work in the field all day
and and and be physically dead tired, but go home and still have the mental
capacity to have conversations and and to, you know,
look at do some reading, watch a movie, right? And and and not worry about that that mental overload. your neuron
network is still available. [laughter] Is still available, dude. Like the right
and then like you could be physically exhausted, but then because that network is still available, you can go play a
couple of softball games, go shoot some pool, go play some corn, whatever it is you do for hobbies, whatnot, and and
you'll still be all right. But once you hit that mental overload that uh that
your your social battery is is has been overloaded, you want nothing to do with
thinking, talking. Like it's a different kind of workout. And I used to
make fun of like the ways that people like, "Oh, you got to give the these kids something to read, something to think about so they reach exhaustion and
then they won't be so hyper." Or the same thing with dogs. give them this peanut butter ball so they reach
exhaustion. Like how does that re It's the trying to figure things out. It's
just a different [clears throat] type of roller coaster that you're going to be on and you really do need to
prepare yourself for something totally different. Um I used to make fun of office people
with suits, right? I used to make fun of suits. Oh, you just sit at a desk all day. Ah, that's what you do. You know, I I used to say that. It's the classic
field versus office dynamic that uh once in a while we'll we'll bring
guys in from the field. uh not electively so much, but invariably
somebody gets uh you know has an illness or gets we've had a one of our long-term
guys his knee wore out just over 20 years of installing and had to have knee
replacement and so he came into the office for the two weeks uh or three
weeks. It wasn't a full knee replacement. had to have some a surgery on his knee, but he was out for like
four weeks, I think. And so he was in the office for four weeks. Another guy um [clears throat] similar scenario, but
it wasn't in neither one of them are actual injuries. It's just like long they've been in the business a long
time. Uh 10 of those years have been with us, so we support them obviously. Uh 10 plus years. So, uh, but we had
them in the office and teaching them how to read blueprints off of a onscreen and
how the onscreen takeoffs work and how that migrates over to your ERP system
and all these things. And it's incredible the um doing that
the uh gratitude that you that they have the same gratitude we feel as exin
installers for our installers who are out there grinding doing the work for us every day. They
reciprocated that after you know three or four weeks in the office. I mean Norby in particular he's like I'm ready
to get back out and work. [laughter] And that's exactly how it feels.
Yeah. Like you you mean I have to read how much? I got to read all that. What am I looking for?
It's like, shoot, man. I I tell you what, there's days I you know, if I hear of a problem
out in the field, there's days I'm like, I'm gone. I'm leaving the I [laughter]
go out there and I just help the guys out. I'll do some welding, do something.
Uh because I need that like mental break to do something that my I have muscle
memory and and kind of comes natural at this point and I can just enjoy doing.
And I still miss one of the one of the things I miss the most about installing
is standing back after I was done with something being like, man, that looks good. Like it just
I did this. I did this. Yeah. it. It's finished and now the
building is finished and look at this. You know that feeling. I don't know how to describe it. That's probably a really
crappy description, but that's how I describe it. This is how we used to describe it. Who did that? I did that.
Why I do that? Because that's what I do. [laughter]
Was that yours, Daniel? Or is that your brother's? That was uh a guy, Nick, that works
works with us. He's the one that that started that. He coined. He's the one that started it. All right. Kudos to Nick. That's a good
one. Tanya's texting me instead of commenting probably because she's at work, but she says, "Yeah, Daniel, what's the
difference between the office between office tired and physical tired because I gave her crap before when I was in the
field and then she'd come home like we'd come home and she'd be like, "Oh, I'm so tired." And be like, "What [laughter]
did you do all day?" And then I started, you know, in the office. And then I'll be honest, I was
like, I I didn't realize how different it was until you do it all
day long, right? Because before it's just, all right, I'll get home. I'll shoot out some invoices. And it wasn't
to the capacity it is now. But now it's like, man, it's just so overwhelming
sometimes, especially when there's so much out there. but
not enough time in the day to get everything done. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're we're definitely
over overloaded trying to maintain a a solid schedule and create a backlog,
right? Because it's so hard to keep up with with everything if you know we're still a small crew, right? Like me and Daniel
are still the this the guys doing a lot in the office trying to get out and do the measures and go do all of our things
and come in. Like that's what they don't tell you about, right? You know what's
got to be done, but you you don't know what's got to be done until you're the
one trying to do it all. But if anybody is getting ready to take that jump, build a team around you. Do what you can
to build a team around you. I promise you won't be mad at yourself. and join a great company if you don't
want to go start start yourself off brand new. I mean, I'll tell you what,
that that's a toughy. Find somebody who's retiring and go buy them out and take it
over. Uh, but I'll tell you this, the other part that I found kind of I won't
say tough, it was just new to me was out in the field. I had
responsibility of two to four guys like keeping them, you know, and they're
right next to you. So, the morale was kind of directly within your purview and
you're somewhat within your control. When you get in the office and you grow into a bigger company, you lose touch
with the guys in the field. Sometimes you'll lose touch with different employees as you get bigger. And I mean
that daily touch. Not that like I don't talk to them, but you just lose that daily touch and keeping morale up when
you're not there like influencing the morale on any given basis. Uh that's a
whole new like dynamic to to moving from the field to the office. And I would
imagine it's that feeling that you're responsible for others. I'd imagine that
that also carries over when you're a tech rep doing job starts and stuff because someone else's business is
relying on you as a tech rep to make sure that they do a good job and do it right.
I wanted to point out that our our our
uh elder of the day, Mr. Rollin,
you know, he said straight up the long day in the office by far wipes him out more than a long day in the field. And I
couldn't agree more. I would say a long day in the field, you
might catch me not being able to walk for a couple days afterwards. Um, but a
long day in the office, you'll catch me coming home and just crashing within 30
minutes of getting home. Like, yeah. The worst part of that is like not I don't want to have conversation with
sometime I've got to force myself to have conversation with kids and things that like I'm done. I'm almost feel like
I'm done talking. I'm done thinking. I just want my brain to go in some neutral zone of
relaxation. You know, that feeling is harder to for me anyway hard has been
harder to overcome than the feeling of getting home after a long day working
uh out in the field and stalling. I got home and that wasn't the it wasn't the
same like you know I w I in fact I didn't talk to very many people maybe a superintendent
here or there and communicating with your crews that kind of comes second nature.
Uh so like you other than that you're you're installing floors. Yeah. Some
days you'd have you know some technical real problems on the job that you had to
figure out. And [clears throat] of course, those are tougher days, but in general,
um, what you'll experience is just this this mental thing. And one of our guys,
Sean, went from being an installer to being installation manager to being a
project manager. So, he's climbed the ranks at our company. And I'll tell you
one of the things that he really is that he really thinks about in that
transition was all the stuff he had to learn. But then once he learned it, he
he found that came started becoming second nature almost like installation. But never one thing that just never
seems to be any way of um I don't know how to say it like it's not systematized
or easy is dealing with the actual coordination, logistics,
super all the people involved in a given project and coordinating all that and
making sure all the stuff happens in a way that gets the project done on time and in a good manner. That's been one of
the things that, you know, new new stuff that he had to learn, but you never get
to the point where it doesn't require like your brain firing off hard trying to figure out some of these things.
Uh, yeah, Jose says that a long day in the field, you know, gets fixed with good sleep. A
hard mental day has you up at 3:00 a.m. [laughter] just just to drink some water. Like,
yeah, that is a great point. That's a great point.
Says he normally has both long day in the field in the daytime, then office mode after work till like 9:00 p.m. and
and later sometimes. And I think that's where we all kind of got going, I
think. Yeah. And yeah, we all did it to ourselves though,
right? [laughter] Well, I didn't know any better. I don't think
you guys knew any better. I I did get kind of lucky. You guys went into
business together. Uh my partner when I first started uh was a project manager
at the company we both worked for. So, he had some office knowledge and so I
was able to lean on him a little bit heavier than just figuring everything out for myself. Um,
but you're often working all day and still going home and either I was doing takeoffs a lot. He handled the the uh uh
accounting and that kind of invoicing and that kind of stuff, but man, I would go home and do it. I this back in the
manual days, you know, I have a set of drawings in my little backpack with
scaled rulers and roller wheels and all the stuff and I'd lay it out on on the
table and do a take off at home. I still like doing that. Yeah, it's still there. I haven't done
it in a long time except for when I'm out in the field and got to get a a pull a measurement off something for a
pattern or something. But so, um, if you guys don't mind, I'm parked now. So now I can backtrack and
concentrate a little bit. Um I want to back up to a part of the conversation where you said you're moving up and you
lose contact with some of the crew and all that, right? Um I want to bring up a
point that one of our guys had mentioned to us uh I don't know probably six months ago, a year ago maybe where he
said things aren't the same when we're not in the field. He worked with us when we
were in the field full-time and then uh left for a while, came back and now obviously we're not in the field
full-time, right? And he said it's just different. Like we didn't do things the way things are getting done now. Um you
know, he's like you guys were like got to do this, got to do and everything went really smooth and it's just he was
like it just nobody works like that. Like when nobody works
doesn't matter where you go, nobody works like the owner. Nobody ever does. It's just, you know, when the guy who
who writes the check is working next to you, everybody seems to work a little bit differently. When the guy who writes
the check is in the office and trusts everyone to do their job, you know, it's just there's a little bit
those are those growing pains, right? Those are just normal growing pains. Yeah. And
I think that's kind of one of the biggest things like to talk about, right? It's being able to
to look at things and know that they're not going to go the exact same way, but realize that if you don't take yourself
out of that equation, you're not going to be able to do what you need to do in the office, too.
Yeah. Um, very very hard transition. I got kind of booted because of, you know,
uh, some physical, uh, issues, right, going on and got booted from the field and like, hey, you're in the office now.
Like it's like showing up to the office first day, nobody's there, just me. Like, oh, what do I do? What do I do?
Um, just hop on the phone, man. Like, didn't have no no plan. I just
everything that I was doing in the field that was causing me not to to be productive as an installer. I just
started doing that full-time and then realizing we're missing a lot of things, missing this, missing that.
It was frustrating, guys. It was frustrating at first. I mean, still frustrating now, but a different kind.
Yeah. Well, there, you know, there's always going to be
struggles no matter which way you go. So, this is what number two we've tal maybe number three. We talked about
going to work as a as a sales rep, uh
going to work as a tech rep for one of the mills, these kinds of things, one of the manufacturers.
Additionally, we talked about either going to work in the office for a flooring company or
starting your own flooring company. But, you know, another um another path, well,
actually what what I would think is um kind of a
natural path are the first two, right? being a sales rep. This is a little bit outside the comfort zone as a company,
but another natural path is training. Uh training is going to continue to take an
uptick. It's already been taking an uptick. Um I think that it's going to
continue to take an uptick where more trainers are going to be needed to be able to keep pace with all the different
training events that will be happening over over time. uh you know there's a
lot of uh activity at the colleges. You can get on Facebook right now. I think that you know there's guys doing FCEF
programs right now like they're going to continue to need trainers as is NFCT and
CFI and so make sure you reach out to these entities. If you've been certified
and highly trained by one of the uh in one of the training organizations, you
got a pretty good chance of being a trainer if you go through one of their train the trainer programs or um you
know, most of them have some type of a a curriculum to get you uh prepared to be
a trainer. But that would be the second and Daniel, you do this, which is my segue here. Um that would be another one
that I would really enjoy. Um, you know, I went to a training event last week that was held here in Witchah and just
chatted with some of the these col these high school AED uh or young college age
students and I I don't know it's it's fun to do. I'm sure that the guys who
are there uh doing the training enjoy it. I always hear good things, but thought I'd kick the ball over to you
Daniel and you Jose on that one. training as a being a trainer for one of
the organizations as a as an outlet even if you start kind of part-time or you're still doing your bit you're an install
or you're still doing something but you're also a trainer. Yeah. I mean, I think if you
look into any leadership book, um, you know, listen to it, read it, everything
always falls back to [snorts] you, you know, you become a good leader when you can create other
good leaders, right? And that's essentially where we're starting at with with the training, especially once you
look start looking at high school. We're starting these kids off on the right foot when
it's something that we could have utilized way back in the day. Yeah, that those programs I wish would
have took effect in the 70s. Uh because that's when 80s maybe is when you know a
lot of the the formalized training for flooring started to kind of fade away
and it started pretty slow and then seemed like all at once no manufacturers
certify anymore, you know, and all at once they're trying to work with the
training organizations to find somebody to,
you know, to have an organization train on their particular products. And that's happening more and more. I think you can
probably speak to it too, Daniel, that more manufacturers, they want to make sure people are trained, but they don't
do it themselves for various reasons, mainly risk and, you know, liability
reasons. And so a training organization teaching not just on their product but
teaching for example if you're teaching a a rubber installation uh of you know regular vulcanized rubber
flooring well that's like you know a Nora product and some of those well their curriculum or
you could use forbo and lenolum kind of stuff like if you're tra you you train
on the product you're training on a lot a forose product if you know how to personally train on say lenolium
and that's kind of seems to be where the manufacturers are going is like right finding organizations to do it
and it it it makes you know a little bit of sense on why they're going away from
the certification aspect right it's because um when people look at it from
coming from a manufacturer what ends up happening is that they're like okay well I'm going to this manufacture mfacturer,
they should be teaching me everything I should know in these two days and I should be able to do it when a lot of it
isn't that. It's just I'm going to show you how to do it. It's on you in order to kind of put it into practice and then
perfect it. Yeah. Well, I want to I want to add to that what
Daniel just said and and I'm going to go to a comparison on sports, right? I say
this all the time to to to my son, my nephews, my niece, even Daniel probably heard me say it.
There's there's training, there's practice,
and then there's, you know, the game, right? You train to learn the new techniques. You you practice to hone
those techniques. And then when it's game time, you implement those techniques to see what your outcome is
going to be. And then what it does is what the game time is when you find out, oh, I still need more work on this. So
what do you do? You hit the reset button. you go back to training, then you go back to practice, then you
go to game time, right? It's it's the same concept. It's I mean, it's just like anything else. Things evolve. Technology is in
everything, whether you think about it or not. Adhesives have technology in them. It may not be electronic
technology, but there's technology in adhesives, right? And that technology changes, so you have to reup. And I'm
going to pop this um comment back up here from Jimmy. He says that uh personally leadership is harder, you
know, his personality, mastering the trade and then uh because he's driven,
he loves learning, take a pride in what he does, but getting guys to do it at that level is hard to pass on to another
[snorts] installer. But when you go to these events like CFI, NFCT, you get that joy of passing
that that on to everyone that's there because they're there to learn. They're
not just there to take the training because, oh, we're going to be installing this, so we have to sit
through this class. It's no, I'm gonna go take this class because I want to further my education and be better at
what I do. Yeah, that's the part that we have to continue to implement into the
uh community as a as as
often as we can as you know advocates of installers is continued education and
continuously staying up uh on the forefront of training and getting those
certifications and trainings because they well I read on one of the the chats
just a few minutes ago. I heard that it's pretty necessary. Yeah, he was being facitious. You know, it's it's
incredibly important that we're we're highly skilled in our field once people
are able to tell you apart. And that's what the VTI is all about. So, uh, the
verified trade index is meant for you to be able to tell installers apart and to separate you from just price only, uh,
being awarded projects on price only, right? When when proof is void, price is
the only thing left. Well, with the proof there, you're going to be consumers and people are going to be
able to look at you versus others. And you want to present the best you. the best you is an educated, motivated
installer. And we we've gotten to see those guys. Uh just Tyler, one of our
crew guys, uh went through your He Well, Flash Cove training and the switch that that does
for some it's something special just going to a training, especially a higher level one. [clears throat] It's just I
can't describe it. He's more motivated. He's like, you know, all about like how
do I get more trainings? Um, he's asking financial questions on how to deal with
certain uh, you know, things in his life financially that where he can be the
have the most impact. U, meaning setting up his business correctly essentially.
That's awesome. And Tyler Tyler's a good guy, man. He had some some pretty good skills. And I think it
that's that is one of those things when you go to these classes is sometimes you know you think that you know a lot and
you are humbled very quickly. I've been in that position right where it's like I
apparently I did not know as much as I thought I did but then you start almost overthinking things at the same time
where it's like just do what you do man. Like ask questions while you're doing it but
just do what you do. Don't try and change 100% of everything when you're doing it. And uh I just wanted to hold
said that two years ago the three Migos started the training with Milicanin and
now they're doing trainings with CFI tailor adhesives. More will come because training is very necessary from what
they tell me and that's where you get that from. Right. I read. Yeah. And um it is it's it's
awesome. And when you go to one of these these classes and
you don't know what people know and what they don't and then you start just putting stuff out there and then to see
them absorbing and then asking questions and then putting it into practice. Like
there was in that same class with Tyler, there was a guy from a hospital, right? And he was like, you know, I've been doing flooring for 10 years, but he
works for the hospital now. And he was like, I've never really messed with any of this stuff. And I I put him through
everything. He and he came up to me and at the end and he said, you know, I just I just want to thank you because he
said, I know I'm not going to pass. Like that that's besides the point right now. He said, I know I'm not going to pass.
He said, and if you come back down here, I'm going to take the whole class again because of everything that that I've
learned. And it is it's it's almost like a switch that you see within people where it's like something turns on for
them. And it's the same thing when you go to trade shows and stuff like that too because you talk to other people
that are in the same boat as you doing the same things and you can talk with like-minded
people. And that that's all it is is just getting everyone together and
knowing that we've all been through it. Yeah. And and the
I was going to comment earlier when you said, you know, you think you know a lot and then you go to one of these trainings and you get humbled. I I think
even for me, even when I didn't know a lot and I go to a training, I knew I was out of my element, maybe go into
something that was beyond me. But man,
you don't like that's either either way you go. A true training or a true
certification, those things are going to they will humble you a little bit. But it's also if you love learning and
that's what I want. That's my dream for our our whole business, our whole
industry is that we get the installers to fall in love with learning again.
that we fall in love with excellence. And if we can do that, then the training
classes are full. There's opportunities for everybody and the industry itself
um you know can start to shed an old image of of uneducated just wild men
doing the floors. It takes a lot of of technique and knowhow to properly
install a floor, but we've all [clears throat] lost jobs to guys who we
knew were less like were not qualified at all, but they were $1,000 cheaper.
Um, and that's heart-wrenching for me. I remember those days when I was competing
and uh you know I still compete but it's different being that in depending on
public bid money this kind of stuff sometimes they have no choice legally than to take the low bid but from an
install when I was installing and I was bidding work or trying to get work from stores
g getting paid uh or getting beat or losing a job to somebody who was clearly
less qualified than I was was one of the things I just wanted to shout from the rooftops and then I'd go back and have
to fix their stuff. And no installer I'm sure that we all have these kinds of
stories, but nobody likes to do that. And the the key is taking it to where
it's not just price that makes the decision that it's actually your your expertise and your your uh reputation
come into play during the awarding of work or somebody choosing to use you. Um
yeah, so the first step is getting to trainings, getting that spark, the spark
that I see in Tyler. It's not his first one, but it's one that he was further outside his element. And I think that it
just sparked something in him. He wants, you know, he wants to make it happen. He's a competitor is what it is, right?
And he found something that that challenged him a little bit. And when you're a competitor and you strive to be
better than you were the last go round, that's what you do is is is you
challenge yourself. And that's that's what you know you said that going to a training that you know you know is going
to challenge you or certification. That's what that does is it reignites that that fire that you have inside you
as a competitor even if it is with yourself. That's a good feeling to have and I like having that. I love that
feeling like you're just learning something new and trying to you want to say master it, right? But you're never
going to master it. That's the thing. You're never going to master it. You're going to get good. never. You might master it in a controlled
area, but but John have a way of throwing some curve balls at you and different homes and different substrates
and different all that different stuff throwing those curve balls at you.
The one thing I love is that we're now starting to get more like salespeople and project managers coming to these
classes and getting some hands-on. Um, even if they don't get hands-on, at least they're in there. And it's like
you guys think that people are kidding when they're like it's not it doesn't pay enough until you see it done and
done 100% right when they're like yeah we definitely don't even allocate enough
time for some of this cuz I'm like sometimes just smoothing the weld itself
and making it look so money takes longer than actually welding it.
Well, I can tell you, you know, that
like if you think if you don't pay as a
store, that's why we pay like per running foot of Cove. We don't just pay a flat weight uh rate for sheet vinyl.
If it's flash cove, heat welded, we're going to pay kind of by the component.
So, yeah, let's weld Then you get paid by the foot on your on your cove, by the
foot on your weld, by the boot on all the boots. So, because like what you said, Daniel,
just the first thing that popped into my head was like, man, boots can take some time. It totally depends on the type and
the the vinyl, but man, that is where the money I mean, if you've ever walked with an architect on a big sheet vinyl
job, they are walking from corner to corner. They know what usually turns out pretty rough on jobs.
They were walking inside corners and boots. Did you your inside corners
or did you weld them? I just had a I just had a job where you said, you know, no one likes going
behind people and um we had to go behind some people and reweld and they're like,
"Why is it why did it take you guys so long to reweld the corners?" And it's
like I don't I don't think you guys understand that things weren't done right from the ground up. So we have to
deconstruct everything. Make sure that there's body behind there or else that
we have nothing to stick to. On top of that, they did coaul the corners and it
wasn't just the inside corners, it was wherever they couldn't get the weld to stick. So, it's like even on the outside
corners, we have to go through and recut those and restick them, restick the
insides, weld it again, smooth it, it's like it's a process. I mean, there was
it was a long conversation on why things are the way they are. But even when a
boot is got the proper backing, you got a good substrate, you're going to weld
pretty well. the install was done well. So, the cove is tight to your stick.
That's where I see a lot of problems when I go out. The cove's not tight. The vinyl is not actually tight to the cove
stick and then they try to weld there and it burns or it melts through. It looks like hell right at the curve. Most
time it's because they don't have any backing there that you were talking about. And
that making sure all that is there is
time consuming. And it's probably the same if we were talking, you know, if we had, you know, uh, Dave on here and
talking about, you know, putting together or any of the NFC or the, uh,
CFI CFI guys or um, uh, the natural fiber
guys, you know, putting together those types of products to do it right. And I
know for a fact on this one cuz I have installed one of these wools and did it
wrong. Um, but to do it right in to put a regular seam together on a on a wool
is or on a a a seaggrass product or sawrass product like you're you are
10 time almost maybe not 10 times but you are significantly maybe 10 times longer than just burning a a cut pile
action back product flat. Yeah, that kind of stuff man. And those
are products I don't even I don't even myself I didn't install. But some of the wools I did. And I tell you what, I did
it wrong. And doing it right would have took twice as long, maybe five times as long. But I didn't know any better.
So that's why I say go get trained. That doing it the fast way isn't always the best way, right? Like uh you know
time is money, right? Um but long term time costs money if you're not doing it right. Taking
shortcuts, missing steps. But that's what what you just everything you guys are saying right now still goes back to
the point of the topic today that is there's a place for everything. Everything that you learn can be applied
to another part of the industry whether it's helping office staff grow uh sales
staff grow um you know using your installation uh abilities to go and
project manage to be a site super like it goes a lot like everything goes together and it helps with transferable
career. Yeah. Yeah. approach it right and you get that training and those certifications and you're really
approaching your craft correctly. I mean, it's transferable over to so many other things. And yes, this podcast is
all about how you take those skills with you and apply them in an office setting
of some sort. We say the boardroom only because when we, you know, you're thinking like a Shaw, Mohawk, these big,
but there are, you can continue to climb. There's plenty of exin installers that are are executives at companies or
started their own manufacturing. Uh like there that that's out there. Uh
just dream big. Take your craft freaking serious. Get really good at it and
you're going to have opportunity for the rest of your life. Even when you're done or you decide to be done with
installing. Yeah. And I think what what people need to realize is that when you when you're first starting out, you know, your value
comes from your skill, right? So, learn as much as you can with your hands. Be
the best. Um, and then once you get to a certain point, your value now comes from
having other people perform. Yeah, I read that in one of the comments like one of the big values they see is
you know it like how [clears throat] do I say it was like the trainings are like
rejuvenating for him to see other people taking knowledge and applying it and getting better. I kind of paraphrase.
I don't know if you guys ever listen to like Gary Vee or anything, but you know, every time he he talks about it, he's
like uh they they ask him about the people that work for him and he's like, "No one works for me. I work for them."
And when when you put it that way, it it kind of uh puts it into perspective
where it's like, yeah, I'm I'm here in order to [snorts]
put all this work in front of you and make you the best that you can be. So at some point, you don't have to be there
anymore and can do the same thing with someone else. Yeah. I mean, I think what you talked
about there with Gary Vee is really hearkens back to what we said earlier
where you're juggling all these balls and you have these these kind of uh this
heavy respons feeling of responsibility for others. That is when you are an
owner and you have multiple people depending on you. So,
it's uh it's important that we all really
grab the cusp of it. It's about excellence and then opportunities will open up to you in so many different
ways. So that's really one thing I would love to leave the industry with is this
revived desire for excellence. And um know earlier you talked about uh
meeting up and getting with everyone over at like these conventions or or certifications. Um and
the reason why everyone enjoys it so much because that's where all the people who have drive go. I know some people go
there because they're asked to go there to get uh training or certified, but uh you had mentioned that your guy had kind
of like rejuvenated his his uh his want to learn and be better. And that's that's just what it does. You get put in
the place where you have people who in in their group setting at home, they might be looked at as
um overachievers or high achievers way too much. But when you put them all together, you
it almost feels like we're not doing enough. Still not doing enough no matter how much we do. And um
those those are those are my people. That's my crowd. We're still not doing enough, guys, right? Like, man, I can't possibly fit
anything more into my day. I'm still not doing enough. What can I do to do more and and
still strive for for to to be better a better person for tomorrow? Well, Rollins's a great example of what
I'm about to say, which is what I said earlier, which is a motivated,
you know, educated installer. Like you you become a motivated,
educated installer, and you you have opportunity. Opportunity is there for
you. And whether that's in any of the outlets, which we didn't even discuss
all of them, but any of the outlets we did discuss on taking your skill to the
next level. Um, you know, it takes education and dedication and this
motivation to take that next step, whether it's in the field, going to be a
tech rep, being a sales rep, being a salesperson for a flooring company, you
know, launching your own subcontracting crew and running a group of guys, or
whatever that is. For you it takes dedication, education, and motivation.
And that you form those three skills or habits or or
uh whatever you want to call them that goes forever. That's with you forever.
So that's part of what this do it right in the field. I I sure you guys have
heard this saying and my dad used to say it to me when I was a kid is anything worth doing is worth doing right.
And that I've always kind of carried that and I I think it applies more so
now to our trade than well in the last 10 years than ever, 101 15 years maybe.
Uh but anything worth doing is worth doing right. Well, you got to know what right
is. That means you have to get trained. You got to know what right is. And um so
I encourage you all as I always do and the guys always do. We are unified in
our desire for our industry to be more highly trained and more highly respected.
Yeah. So Romero says that you can position yourself to perform the best.
He started splitting uh what he calls splitting creating roles in his company a couple years ago. And um again go like
I I didn't come from a leadership background, right? So, I try and do whatever I can in order to make up that
void. And it's listening to audio books and who I think is a is a good leader. And that's
what everyone says. It's you you need to set yourself up and create these things even if it's one person running
everything because eventually you got to start delegating because you can't do 100% of everything as a leader.
Yeah. And you if you're if you're really wanting to have this big rewarding career, whatever that looks like, you're
never going to stop learning. I can tell you $1 million a year revenue pull
is was not the saying that it took for a $5 million revenue poll and so on and so
on. Like as we as you grow, you have to gain new skill.
freaking master this skill first. Master the skill of learning.
Do that this other stuff you'll fall you'll fall if you fall in love with learning. You'll all this stuff comes
easier because it doesn't look like such a burden. You know I know I I constantly
you know I'm trying to take our company to the next level. I have been a deep dive into how systems and AI and how
these new things work together with old thought processes like that's all
learning. It's it doesn't someone you know you don't just get it. You got to go dig and find and work for it. and you
as an installer dig find and work for the uh the trainings and certifications
and get connected to the industry and keep being a positive force for other installers. Teach what you know. Rollins
a great example of this. This guy is one of the guys that I really admire for his
dedication to teaching others. And those he only is in that position or any of
the positions he's been in because you look at his ball, you see a guy dedicated to education, dedicated to
learning. He's dedicated to to the the craft, the
industry, and the craft. And and he's a great teacher, dude. He is phenomenal at
at what he does. And like you said, if he's in the if he's the smartest person in the room,
he's in the wrong room, right? Yep. And then I want to just shout out to Horge because he's got his work room
opening up and he's already uh got got scheduled to host chapter meetings over there. So,
we're we're super proud. Hey man, that's awesome, brother. That is awesome. So, if you're in
over in the San Antonio area, get a hold of get a hold of Jorge so that way you
can be there when uh these chapter meetings start happening. Yeah, getting involved in the local
chapter. You know, we probably don't talk about it enough, but getting involved in those kind of things is
another good way to get, you know, your foot into the industry and start to get to know some of the people who are
really taking it serious. So, if you got a local chapter, you
should connect with them if you And next week, Rin ought to put up the where all
the local chapters are. I bet he's already talking about them right now.
But yeah, so if there is a local chapter in your area, I'd get involved because getting involved in your local guys that
are trying to do the the the craft the right way that those are good people
with that. Uh you guys got anything to close us out?
Little word to the wise, little wisdom. Um [laughter]
I'm free. Mine's freezing so I don't even know if you can hear me. So, I'm just going to say just keep working at
being better. There you go. Up on the screen, there's
a uh QR code. You should hit that up. Go check out Trade Tap. Check out the VTI.
Learn how uh we'll have a video coming out here in the next couple weeks. We'll play on on the huddle. uh show you how
to really leverage your your profile to uh win more work, get paid more, and uh
get tied into other opportunities tied into training education. So, with that
guys, we want to ask you to do us a quick favor. We don't ask you for much,
but a like and a subscribe would be a payment enough for the time we invest on
the podcast. We really enjoy doing this, but we can only do it if you guys engage with us. So, you know, if you're
catching us on Facebook or any of the platforms that Daniel mentioned earlier, from LinkedIn to Facebook to Spotify,
any of them, give us some love, like, subscribe to our YouTube channel, and uh
let's keep pushing this thing down the road, and we will see you guys next week.
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