The Huddle - Episode 143 - Installer Confessions: Tales from the Job Site

Every installer has a story—the good, the bad, and the downright unbelievable. This week, we’re pulling back the curtain on real job site experiences with special guest Andy McWilliams. From unexpected challenges to lessons learned the hard way, we’re diving into the wild world of flooring installations like never before.

💡 What You’ll Learn in This Episode: How a surprising incident on a hospital job site led to a major shift in branding and professionalism at Preferred Flooring. You'll hear insightful installer stories that highlight the importance of preparation, perception, and accountability on the job. Industry expert Andy McWills shares his journey from installer to technical manager, offering valuable lessons on career growth, reputation, and what it truly means to take pride in the trades.

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Wow that was a little bit different of an intro video I don't know why they kept playing back What is up guys

welcome back to the Huddle your weekly playbook helping you gain forward progress in your flooring career Simply

put we're here to help you win For all our new viewers welcome to the

team What's up Andy with us today Mr Andy McWills Did I say that right

yes you did Yep And with me as always is either Jose or Daniel And today we got

Jose Daniel uh has a child in a

baseball some type of a sport event Yeah So started playing baseball today Got a

double header Started at 400 pm Eastern time So yeah Yeah So it's going to be us

three Uh Andy welcome to the huddle my friend Thanks Thanks for having me Yeah

Give us a little background about you Uh a little bit about yourself and how you ended up in uh in our great uh flooring

industry Yes So I pretty much grew up in it um

installing with my uncles My dad did mostly tile and then you know some carpentry work but my uncles they carpet

hardwood vinyl you name it you know So I kind of went with them after my dad passed and you know just grew up in the

industry installing and um moved to South Carolina when I was about 19 years

old and uh kind of never looked back in terms of flooring you know Um just

that's what I moved there for I took a bus with a backpack from the town that I actually just moved back to um when I

was 19 and I heard there was flooring work available there Got up there and never looked back

So um started my own company You know it was an installation company Worked there for years Uh over those years I worked

with a ton of different installers because you know I was young so I wasn't always you know doing my own work there

was times where I didn't have enough work or you know in in Charleston this is kind of a small area so the network

is you know pretty tight-knit there so we would always you know uh work with

each other on you know larger projects and things like that um so you know I had a lot of experience working with a

lot of guys and then in 2019 I was contacted to uh go over to the dark side

I guess some say become a technical guy so for vinyl flooring manufacturer so

it's been fun I work for Nala Now I'm the commercial technical manager for Nales Sweet

Doing big things big dog Trying trying Well thanks for the background Uh do you

um you today's topic being you know installer confessions tales of the you

know of the job site Um I thought we would you know maybe tell a serious

thing um uh a funny thing and something we got away with And there there's

probably more than one of each of those So to our audience if you participate it

makes it funner Every time you guys comment and and uh uh participate in the

podcast it makes it super fun So we're going to start with uh a quick question

Do you Andy do you like what you're doing now do you miss getting your hands on it or do you still get it get your

hands on the the product and and do any like install stuff with your uh current

position definitely Definitely still doing a good not a good bit of install Enough to keep me you know engaged I

would say Enough to keep my skills sharp I was a carpet and vinyl installer for the most part part I mean I did dabble

in other surfaces but that was my main two Um so not any more carpet I think uh I had a friend of mine reach out to me

when I first moved back here to put some carpet in like a um like a storage area that they had turned into this kitty

play area because it was an Airbnb And so that that was about the extent of my carpet installation um days in the last

five years But it's in terms of vinyl yeah I'm doing a ton of vinyl all the time So you know tons of shows and

things like that So but I'll say this this was always my dream job from the

time I was old enough to understand like you know what a technical guy was You know my uncles had tech reps come out on

job sites where there was issues and things like that And it was always just like when they'd fly into town and fly

back out and you know I was like "Holy crap that's what I want to be." And you know it it ended up happening you know

and I I had no idea it was going to I would have never told you six years ago that I would be you know sitting at my

dream job doing what I love to do And I I really do I enjoy every minute of it That's awesome too brother I just want

to add into that that uh Andy was a mined crystal certifier uh one of the

classes we took uh for the LVP resilient class that he phenomenal instructor very

animated very in tune with what he's doing and um he's not losing any skills right he's

he's got his skills there and uh and he does he does get to practice more often than you

think is that uh was that certifi uh certif certification through Navalis or

was that No that was NFCT Yeah So okay gotcha Yep Yeah it was

Sunny um Sunny Callahan and everybody So we had that That was back in Calhoun That was one of the first ones we did uh

down in Calhoun Second class right the second one No I

don't remember Yeah No that was I think that was our second class Yeah The funny part about that one you know we're

telling stories about you know things that went wrong or could have went wrong Uh so we had four guys there to do the

training and everybody but me got a phone call They had to be either on the

West Coast or up north or somewhere on an emergency and it was it Paul and I

were left there and it was it was rough There was 25 guys in the class Well guys and gals Crystal was there too So I

think Crystal was the only girl too right yes she was Yeah Yeah So yeah 25

members taking the test So it was tough So I was getting them to kind of walk around with me and help me you know

check the check the booths and make sure everybody was kind of staying on task and doing the right thing So it was it

ended out pretty good but it was it got scary there for a minute Like how are we going to grade all these people how are we going to try to He was nervous He was

nervous He was sweating Yeah I was sweating He was nervous It's okay That's just cuz I'm fat and out of shape and it

was a long walk from one box to the other Well you ought to have some good stories

then But um why don't you do you got any uh serious stories that pop up to you

Jose um so I guess when we're talking serious

are we talking lessons learned or are we talking um like like paint well I I mean it's

it's just about it's just about anything you want I'll I'll I'll let me kick it off with one quick uh story This is a uh

I was probably 28 close to 30 years old and I was in in

uh installing some some BCT and I've told this story on this podcast so I'm going to tell it again Uh I was doing

some BCT in a middle school and we were down the hallway uh a long hallway with

a bunch of classrooms off of it All the classrooms were shut down except for the one at the very beginning of the hallway

They were still having math class and we were doing like the old VCT patterns

where we had waves down all the way down the hallway and circles halfway through

each one of the waves and a little triangle over here and everything had to be right where it was supposed to be for

these these doorways and uh going into each classroom And um it was a complicated

layout Like geometry and mathematics was in full force on this job Uh let alone

the floor prep and making sure it was beautiful because what's at the end of a hallway is a set of doors just casting

natural light across your floor So anyway it was me and three other guys as

I get up to go use the bathroom and I'm walking by this classroom and I'll never

forget this story because the teacher was lecturing her children that if they don't pay attention that they're going

to end up being like us guys out there Oh man And I've told this story many

times because it hit me and I remember thinking explanative word You have no

idea how much education it took to get that floor to lay out and how many how

much hand skills it takes to put VCT field cut to VCT with this wasn't water

jet you know This was all field cut Yep It was we had to lay out all of the

angles All of the um the waves down the hallway all those threepoint point arcs

had to be at a certain point in the in the hallway and it took a lot of of uh

math which that was a math class you know and I thought you know how dare you

say that I was really ticked off about it but I it's it's really been one of those things in my life that drove me to

like protect the trades and you know the bad um the bad crap we get like it

doesn't take any education to do what we do or something We're just a bunch of dumb orgs out there you know putting

stuff in a building No it takes math geometry Nowadays you better have some

darn good computer skills You better know how to run equations and formulas

in Excel and do all this other stuff It takes a a lot to be a flooring guy these

days And um so that's my serious story Okay

That's that that might be an example It doesn't have to be like that but that was that's my example No that's that

that really hits home I never had anybody actually say anything close to that but I mean you know I did a lot of

high-end residential especially towards the end of my installation career And when you walked into some people's

houses they just looked at you like you know you were you were scum of the earth Um this didn't happen to me but it

happened to a very good friend of mine's father Um and and he was my my buddy that installs was on the job But when

they got there they walked into the house to to start doing the the carpet You know they was getting ready to you

know move furniture rip and replace And the guy looks them dead in the face and

said "Everything's upstairs um for you guys to do If anybody needs to use the restroom there's a gas station down the

street." M and everybody was like because you know I don't know how much residential you guys have done in your

past but most of the time when you go into a residential home 95% of customers are very welcoming you know they got

bottles of water in the refrigerator out in the garage or you know so on and so forth and especially a restroom

everybody's like the restroom's right down the hall on the right if you need it you know now there is certain cases where you know you're taking you know

you're redoing the bathroom and you got to take the toilets out and there is nowhere to use the restroom you know and most of the times on residential you're

not putting a portal lit outside you're going to just run down to the gas station if you have to on lunch break But that was you know that that's kind

of an example of going back to what you were talking about just you know people looking down you know at most construction trades in general as you

know they are just not educated and you know uh they're they're just better than they are you know and it's it's terrible

So got a lot of respect for dirty jobs because I think it's brought a lot of

light to like the jobs are dirty but then you go to that tradesman's house

and it's a beautiful home and he's like you know like there's some things behind that that um you know is really

um well it just shows how well you can support a family if you have a skilled trade whether you're electrician a

skilled flooring guy or yeah you know a painter enter any of those trades Um if

you become an expert at it you're going to do just fine for you and your family Absolutely So I'll go I'll go into the

the lesson The one that stands out I would say the one that kind of changed the trajectory of of preferred flooring

Let's just put it that way Um we were working at nighttime at a hospital project and um during this time we were

like two nights into a you know a couple week project and uh somebody stole a

hospital computer right patient information like and like security

cameras like it all like dude it was like something out of the movies Our guys our crew walked by the computer

went missing right at the same time Our our guys wanted to go dump trash you know at the same time when they were

leaving The guy who actually took the computer ran out in the same path as the van and they were like "You guys stole

our computer They stole our equipment We're gonna this is a federal offense and I'm sure he's not our guys right?"

And you know we went back and forth and the head of security um he was very adamant and asked said

"Look this is just coincidence I know it doesn't seem like that but I'm telling you." And you know they did Facebook

like they check everywhere like all socials Anyway you know you go fast

forward about a week uh not even a week later and he pulls me in and says "Please tell me it was a nurse I just

want to apologize because it was not your guys They caught the guy It was a uh a

husband or boyfriend of a patient who was upset with uh the hospital That was

a way of getting them back Um so I do apologize And uh he said "Word of

advice why aren't your guys uniformed?" And I said "Well we're wearing work clothes." He said "Word of advice if you

plan on growing your business is if you're not willing to put your brand on your own guys why should I be willing to

let them work in my facility?" That's cool And you guys are are big proponents of that Like you see PF

flooring stuff everywhere Yeah I've never really seen any of your merchandise Never ever

So that's what kicked off your love for uh for for making sure you guys got all that Yeah we have to design and uniform

like dude like no lie three days later we all had shirts you know I made sure that you know and then it progressed

from there we have to be uniform and we have to look the part right we want people to take us serious whether it's

commercial or residential and and just the the delivery in the series of events like that was a very standout moment I

would say in both Daniel and I's career like just okay I got I got I got another one in

that vein and this is a little lighter uh lighter um story but I I didn't manage it Our

vice president um who's retired from from our company now but he managed a job at a high-end bank and we were

redoing their their uh like break area and it was more like a hangout kind of

party area but it was LBT everywhere Uh

different patterns Really nice job And we get a call Well I actually got a call

from my VP who got a call from his customer just matter than a hornet that

we were drinking on the job site And um so my VP called an emergency

meeting Every all the installers came to the office and we were like "Hey apparently one of you guys were

drinking on the job site We need to know what happened." And they were like "Not not me." And so after trying to like get

what we thought was the truth out of them and we were like "Okay well our guys said they didn't do it We're going

to call them back say "Look we don't know what happened Our guys didn't do it." So we

called back our client We're like "Look our guys did not drink on your job site

Bull crap." Blah blah blah blah blah And you guys were the only ones up there Who

else would have done it you guys were literally the only crew on the job site

and you were the last crew on the job site You were putting up the final stuff and you blah and we were like crap

man What do we do here right our guys are like "So long story short about 3

hours later we're trying to figure out how to do it and we get a call apologizing and the vice president of

the bank had some buddies up after we were finished and they were hanging out in their new party room drinking Buds

And the only proof they had or the only thing that the our our client at the time was was uh kind of resting his hat

on was that there was a bunch of beer cans in the trash can And so some some

secretary or some place someone there seen that reported it to the GC The GC

called us said you are the only guys there And I don't know if

that's you know uh indicative of anything other than like you know just

wrong place at wrong time Thankfully the the VP stepped up He's like of course I mean he's vice president He's like [ __ ]

that was my cans man And uh so we got a apology out of that one Um it was it's

funny now at the time it was not too uh too hilarious That was my guys They wouldn't have left that deposit in the

trash can I don't know deposit in your state but that's what I should have said Our guys are way too smart to leave beer

cans in your trash can Well I actually had to talking about beers I actually had to start I had to buy a separate

cooler cuz I I was cheap and I would have a cooler that I took to the lake or took wherever or took to my buddy's

house and that cooler would also go on the truck in the summertime when we needed an extra cooler Well a lot of the

times it would be leftover from the weekend and I got a call one day that you know the store that I was subbing

for got a call that the guys have beer in their cooler because we had the cooler out by the van and it was opened

up where we had put some ice in it The homeowner seen there was beer in there I was like "Yeah yeah it's it's left

over." They're like "Yeah no they think you're drinking you know." And I'm like "Well if I can install carpet this good drunk I should you should see me when

I'm sober." So yeah I learned my lesson about that

No beers in the cooler Say what that's how you learn how to install it You don't know how to install it any other

way Yeah I know You got to love Jorge He He's like going

and having uh beers right now Kudos to Jorge He is our uh uh Spanish speaking

huddle host Oh yeah Extraordinaire Yes

Yeah So um what what a story man It's it's um you one last one Not really last

one Probably I could go on forever but this this one this one is my own nephew

It It reminds me when you said a stolen computer My nephew we were on a job site

and he did steal a freaking Miffi like a Wi-Fi thing right off the deal Like

worst worst criminal ever uh obviously lost his job after this Uh but he

freaking just walks by takes it Camera's like I mean just perfect face

recognition you know My logo's on his chest The one time I wish we didn't have

company shirts and they were like "Hey your guy stole something." And I was like "Yep I know who that is I'll get it

back for you." We got it back and and uh you know obviously told our client that's the last they'll see him on any

of their jobs that was about six eight years ago but man

uh you know it amazes me that like when you're there doing the floors it doesn't

matter what train you're in I guess at this point but if you're the only one there and it the search is like narrowed

down to like a crew of three and you know like you're gonna didn't get caught

for something stupid Don't but don't be dumb That was uh that was blatantly

stupid on his part Um yeah that's that's especially working

for your family and you do that I wanted to strangle him if my sister would have not

strangled him Here's one for the record books And this is this this got pretty serious Um you know in Charleston I

lived in a Charleston's a small town It may seem like a larger city but everybody knows everybody in the Charleston area over in South Carolina

So there was this one guy that kind of bounced around from cruise to cruise You know we we'll call him we'll call him G

for the sake of it right he was a younger kid Um I would assume that he

was involved here and there in some felonious activities you know from time to time but he grew up in the

installation industry and when he needed a job and we were doing a ton of work he was great to have And the one thing

about G is he showed up every day If he said he was going to be there he was going to be there He wouldn't he wasn't

somebody that was always late or you know he's always there He might smoke a pack of cigarettes that day while he was

there but he was there until he was working for me over a summer He was

probably in his late 20s working for me over a summer and he'd been with me for about a month And then all of a sudden

one morning he didn't show up for work not answering his phone or

anything And I'm like what's going on you know this is not like him Everybody on the crew and I'm like okay there's he

must be sick or in the hospital or something So I sent a guy by his house

And when he got there he said it looked really weird like the door was just kind of open Nobody was home and he knocked

There was nobody at his house The door was just kind of looked like it was kicked open And we're like "Oh man." So

we had to go on to work you know So we're we're working And uh on the way home that day a guy in my passenger seat

one of my other guys was like "Hey is is his last name blah blah?" And I was like

"Yeah why?" And he showed me a post He had been arrested for murder

So he was in a in in the vehicle when he him and a buddy I guess

a drug deal gone bad that night and something happened and the and the driver shot the guy in the leg He bled

out and died and because G was with him he was he was arrested as well Yeah And

so you can imagine so that happened that day The next morning I got a phone call

from one of the companies that I consulted for We had just been on a job that I had him on and they're like "Are

you kidding me?" You know flipping out on "You got a murderer on on our job." And I was like "No hold on." Because

they knew they knew him too And his brother worked for them for years And he

worked with his brother with them for years And I was like "There's no way he could have been working for his brother He could have been working for any of

them There's no way that you're going to pin that on me That's the most unexpected thing ever to happen you know

I said besides for clarification he was not a murderer when he was on your job

site right yeah Exactly Exactly That happened afterwards Exactly But and and

he didn't really pull he didn't pull the trigger He was just there He witnessed allegedly Allegedly Yeah Well

he did time for it so he allegedly did That sucks you know So yeah it was

pretty it was pretty crazy I mean you know things happen Um I mean I think we

could all write a book about some of the crazy things that we've experienced You just reminded me about a crazy story that like kind of similar to that And

I'm just gonna I'm sorry to interject but this is No that's okay Let's go So there was there was a case in in Michigan the Jessica Herring case or

whatever about this disappeared kidnapping murder Um and uh it come to

find out after the guy got caught his name was Jeffrey Willis Um and one week

before he got caught we were doing a renovation at a large company And this is this is gonna this

gonna end with a little bit of a joke I'm just kidding Just a little bit punch line there but Jeffrey Willis was the

guy who was bringing us our pallets of our material and taking care of our trash for us We didn't think about any

of that right but then a week later boom this is this is who it is Jeffrey Willis

And then we're like dude like that's that's nuts Like I kept his car business

card never had his car was stolen I kept I thought it little little psycho I guess But I thought it was like like

that never happens right like that's one in a million because it's just very rare

And then one day we're conversating about it and my sister was like "Oh he could kidnap me." Like man he ain't got

no like he ain't got no load that van How the hell he going to kidnap ass like you know she was at her biggest at that

time So that's what made it funny is that I mean her her Daniel and I were all at her biggest at that time Like he

ain't gonna kid that like come here You watching like how they how they gonna lure you into that van Was it the guy I

was hoping to hear because we're not doing a real good job of like uh get putting us on the the the

the professional path No it was the guy Yes

100% Yeah Wow That's crazy It was uh Yeah And there was a couple other he

ended up being serial killers A couple other uh investigations that led to that Yeah It was nuts dude Um surreal is one

of those things that you can't make you can't make stuff like that up Like your story you can't make that up Yeah Can't make it up It just happens It just

happens And it's it's unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it You know you can't control other people It's

really hard to control other people's personal lives um you can try your best to be the you know the best judge of who you hire but um you know you just never

know what they're doing at home and and and what's going through their mind So kind of one day at a time It's not it's

not a construction thing Uh you can watch crime TV and doctors and

Yeah You just never know Yeah All right One one you got away with

I got I got a story that I was thinking about with this and my entire 20s No

no you know what i'm just I'll give a I'll give a little quick example of one that I got away with Um and it was my

first time ever doing no workbase They had asked if you've ever done it before

Like yeah sure I mean it's base What's so hard about it and it was a project

that was about an hour and a half away from us man Talking about showing up to a to a gun knife Yeah Yeah And uh and I

had to finish it man Dude I I we I wathered every single outside inside

corner by hand And I and I you know I bet the bullet I like "Hey um the uh the

carpenter could I borrow your saw?" And he's like "Oh no absolutely not." Oh and

I get it right You know I didn't really look the trustworthy part I guess I was younger I was a little boso I didn't cut

off sleeves Sure You know I wasn't This was This was pre preferred flooring I would say He was like for sure Still my

saw Yeah But uh exactly is what he thought So yeah I bit the bullet and then and learned the hard

way about Milward Base and what not to do Did it turn out okay um I never got a

call back So but I'm gonna I'm just gonna say it probably did not Um

well this story is one not done It did but it probably didn't last This is one where I truly got away with uh something

And now that the this job has been torn down and been replaced I I feel okay

saying what happened But uh we were doing the airport here in Witchaw and it was when it was

the old building and I mean we had only been in business for four or five years

maybe tops and it was a big Collins and Aman three-foot tile carpet tile job

pill and stick and and um it was at a functioning airport so with security we

had to check in 10 blades and when We got 10 blades We had to turn in 10 used

blades to get 10 more blades And there was this whole protocol double double

lock out of the of the tools So we had to have a a key and the security guy had

to have a key to unlock the the box And it was this whole thing Well I get a

call about two o'clock in the morning and it was at night So after the last flight is when we would start about

10:00 It was that night and we had lost a blade And the contract had read that if

there's a blade in the terminal area on the other side of security where we were

working um they would have to shut down the airport and we'd be liable We had to get special insurance all this stuff to

do the job Oh they would have to redirect flights all this stuff So I'm like "Dude are you

serious you can't find you're He's like "Do you want me to start pulling up

carpet tall shirley it's under the one of these pieces." And I was like "How much you got down?" He's like "300

yards." And I'm like "Oh my god dude." And it's pill and stick right it was the

gold cones and the pill Oh I know exactly what you're talking about And I was like "Dude that I I don't first off I don't

know if we're gonna survive you doing that." Like the carpet tile itself it

sticks so good I don't know that you know the product's going to survive Uh

and or our floor prep I and who knows if you find it And

so I devised a plan I got a used blade out of my box I I said pull the because

we would pull our uh box truck up to the front and they would escort us out into

the truck and and uh watch us throw away our stuff and we go back in I was like

I'm going to go I'm going to drive by and I'm going to put a blade in the back

of that box truck And so I drove by and I flung it out my passenger window

straight into the back and I was like "It's in there somewhere Next time you go out for a trash hole you bring it out

and you say "I found it." And it worked I got away We got away with I don't know

where that blade ever went Uh we There was no national catastrophes but surely

it was underneath one of those cuz it was nowhere to be found So it had to be

underneath one of those carpet tiles So it was safe but there was no other way

They would have shut down air traffic into w into our city into Witchaw The little skit with that like with the

Mission Impossible got it It was it was insane dude That that that would have been a

lot It was one of the most stressful things I went to went through up to that point I was like what in the world do I

do like it's one single blade out of probably 50 we' used that night Look

at this guy That's hilarious So that's one I got

away with That's And it's been 15 plus years ago So hopefully anybody in bold doesn't

watch a podcast Yeah I think one I got away with it was

it was it was the seaman iron accident and it bothered me for years but um I'm

pretty sure after the house closed I got away with it but it was Super I'll never forget it was Super Bowl Sunday I was

like 20 I must have been right at 23 years old little bit before 23 because my son

was just born and he was with me He was a newborn in a stroller in the kitchen

while I was finishing a job that I couldn't finish the night before And I was headed to the Super Bowl And you

know I was in a rush You know all we had left was the living room I can remember it like it was yesterday The living room

connected to a hallway with two bedrooms off the side They were already ready to rock and roll ready to stretch I just

had to put the seam on the end of the living room and stretch the whole thing in Had two columns in the center big

open living room So I'm I cut my seam I'm doing a couple of other you know touch-ups and stuff And I kick the iron

over walking by Now I used I think it's K50 Orchon K50 orange It It was orange

seemed to or uh liquid when it turned to liquid And so this was white Berber

Yeah Yeah In the middle of the winter So all the scraps were outside in the

garage because I didn't need anything else I had my Phil Peak cut Phil piece cut I'd already cut the rows I was

getting ready to put it together and I went to go do something else because my buddy called me He was like "Hey Andy come back here." And I kicked the iron

over And so all the the adhesive on the iron tray And I'm not going to tell you

back then I was the best at keeping my iron tray and my iron clean And it wasn't that clean And it just leaked all

over the place Now here's the kicker The cord got wrapped into a pad bag that we had had scraps in And before I got back

to the seam I was cleaning stuff on my way So I grabbed the pad bag and I threw

it over onto the tile for you My god bro And it just drugg the iron

across So and I finally noticed the iron I'm like "Oh my god." And it's like by

this time it's sitting upright and there's like skips across Not even in a straight line either It's like you know

so I had to patch It was like a 6 by8 area and that's I only had like a 12

foot by seven foot piece left So I had to put a T-se and in berber in a berber in a

berber The only go the only saving grace was this thing ran a great side row like

you could run straight across and it and it was perfect So I put it together and

I was like oh my god I'm replacing this job It looked great You couldn't see it There was one little area where I could

see like there was a scene there Plus remember I still had to put the fill on and this was before the fill This was in

the field Yeah it was terrible So I was so nervous Almost ran out of seam sealer

Like there was so much going on at one time I put it together and man I was probably nervous for three or four years

Like every time I got a phone call I was like "Oh god." From Pinley Construction They're gonna call me back I was like "Oh no oh no I gotta replace this job."

But I never had to It's I mean the house has probably been sold three times by now which Yeah that's a good one Install

You can have that install No worries No charge Free People were awesome We're great See you guys later Yeah Yeah See

you later No no no I still got paid for it but man I can't believe I got away with it Well that's your skills coming

through Yeah that was that's your skills coming through I can remember power stretching across I

was like I was telling my buddy Chris I was like "Don't power stretch too hard on the width You're going to peek those seams." I was like just just barely pop

it in there I'd rather come back for a restretch than any Yeah no doubt

So yeah if anybody comes back for a restretch make sure it's me Yeah Yeah For anything

I don't care I'll deliver their milk Yeah Well that's some that's some skills

to put that back together It was it was scary I only I had to patch a I didn't

know any better when I first started laying carpet I I [ __ ] we didn't I

didn't even use a power stretcher It was just like you go kick it in Mhm Oh I've been

And that was mainly because I was I was doing some rag ass like $3 a yard back in the LD

Brinkman days uh you know carpet But uh

I I did a couple of commercial jobs for this design group and they stayed with

me for years after I started my company Uh and on glue down stuff I was really

good Well they wanted me to do a stretch in It was a wool Berber I didn't know there was any difference in the way you

seamed it or anything I got the the seams turned out fine but

I was kicking this stuff and ended up just kicker

heads like all over dude I was like I was like I'll just trim them off man Y

and I trimmed it off and I was like that looks terrible Thankfully I had a one of my guys that I had learned from was an

actual carpet layer and I had not graduated to that I was the quintessential guy that did it for six

months and thought he knew what he was doing Um that came and and saved my saved my

rear end because I had no idea what I was doing and introduced me to a power stretcher Later I I started getting

trained more uh effectively But uh yeah I I don't know if I got away with that

because I had to pay him to come fix my problem But but still I got I got through it and it was an expensive

carpet Yeah Yeah Going back what you was saying about kicking versus power stretching I mean you know when I first

moved to South Carolina the the crew that I hooked up with they were doing a lot of commercial VCT and then a lot of

new construction apartments and there was no power stretchers No You know and and you learned how to kick decently I

mean you know everybody that I know would crucify me for saying what I'm saying but it's the truth And if and if

you're old school you know it's the truth You know that you know there's a time for a power stretcher when you're doing retail and high-end work and and

things that are going to that are made to last But when that carpet is being replaced in less than six months you

know and when it's a 20 ounce or 22 ounce pile we called it bird skin Yeah

Or sea grade because you hold it up the sun you see right through it Like you know don't burn your iron on anything

over two or you're going to crinkle the the backing But you know and you know when

you know when you can do that and when you can't you know and but what's funny is a lot of the times it's it's funny

that you know there's there's those installers that do that type of work every single day And then there's installers that have never done it and

they only do and I'm just talking about stretching carpet They only do retail you know high-end residential or just

residential in general And yes absolutely you should be using a power stretcher everywhere that you can you

know but you can't cross those two right because that guy that's that's all he's ever done he'll go on to that that uh

you know multif family site and he'll lose money because he has no idea how to produce qual quantity right yeah And if

you switch them and send those guys that are most likely decent installers over to that retail job it's like a bull in a

china shop Oh man and they have no idea what they're doing you know because they're they're thinking they want to

knock this job 150 yards They can do that in in four hours you know on a multif family site but they can't do

that on a retail side because you got a lot more things to look at So I I just wanted to bring that up because it was it was funny that you said that I don't

hear a lot of people say that out loud but I'm proud to say that I'm the same I was doing like uh Jorge says power

stretcher all day Well you tried to power you if you tried to power stretch

some of that sculpture [ __ ] that we installed I'm telling you you might you're just gonna rip it I you had to

know how to kick it But you're right You can't take that

I won't I don't know to call it a skill set but it you know you could get a pretty dang tight pull on on that carpet

with a kicker Yeah I mean here's the thing too Again you got to look at what you're

putting you know where you're putting it at right um Yeah These were these were slum slum Yeah lanes of uh of of

duplexes that and triplexes and quadplexes that were old base housing

that basically one guy owned the entire area Yeah So and you're really I mean you're installing it It's still a

finished product when you're done And you know it's it's it's the the worst

thing that's going to happen is going to wrinkle right that that's it That's the worst thing that's going to happen And

it's not always going to happen You know a lot of the times it's going to be replaced before it wrinkles because it's going to be filled with cat and dog

urine for sure But no I mean look and and I totally agree with Jose like power

stretcher power stretcher Save your knees Save your back But you're not going to go on you're not going to walk

into any multif family site in the United States today and convince any guy that's doing carpet for $2.25 a yard to

pull a power stretcher out of his truck No You know what actually let me add to that They will pull it out and open it

and set it in the middle of the room Yeah As far as use you're right And

that's a lesson learned And honestly there's a market for that Yeah we Well

you're not going to get away with it Like Puit's saying here he's just giving us a hard time but he's he's talking

about it promoting bad habits Yeah That's why Andy That's why Andy was very

clear that there's a time and place for that and it's very small time and place

Yeah And even on new and um new construction homes that kind of stuff

you should be power stretching No doubt I'm talking about you know uh we don't

do much of the apartment I should clarify we don't do any apartment

replacement but if we're doing a new multifamily that does happen to have carpet um these are 10 by8 rooms The

guys might power stretch it they might not It's a little bit nicer product today than what we used to install

Literally like you said Andy I mean you could hold this sculpture up to the sun

and like you could see your mirror if you was in front of a mirror you'd see your own reflection I'm gonna give I'm

gonna give Dwayne I'm gonna give Puit a little crap real fast Hey Puit Also if you leave it out in the parking lot a

lot long enough in the summer it'll heat it up and you can stretch it so much further than you need And I know he know

he I know he knows that he has said that So a little a little water in a spray bottle a little hot water in a spray

bottle you know I'm totally getting it But but it's the truth I mean I I came from a an area

where there was both sides of it I got to experience and that's one thing I got to experience both sides and I got to

see the the the quality that you produce from both sides right i also got to

experience the physical um effects from both sides right you

know first of my career in my early 20s and we were doing a lot of multif family

a lot of apartment replacements and a lot of the times you know we got we got in and got out of there and we were

kicking them in and and and I'm not afraid to admit it they were still good-looking installations and they still lasted And I'm not going to say

this I hate hearing it I never had a call back because we always had call backs for crazy stuff but we didn't get

call backs for restretches right Mainly because they were already replaced before we even had time you

know But that's the thing you know you got to you got to figure out why that's pulling a go pull a try to pull a hard

stretch on a on a um on a uh Jip Creek floor that's had 50 different times the

the tax strips been replaced So the answer to that is well you're going to pull out your your aluminum nails and

you're going to you know pilot drill and you're going to do all of that for 225 a yard Yeah No that's I'm not Let me be

clear about that I'm not doing that for 225 a yard But there absolutely is people that will do it and that's how

they're going to do it You say that and and I was going to add like we were we

traveled down me and my buddy Dirk and and Thomas we went down to uh Maryland to go do some uh bunch of retirement

homes the residential side after We already did some of the the corridors um

for the commercial side and these bottlers were kicking out You know they were like 130 yard square yards of

berber white berber These guys were installing 6 inch tag strip with

Elmer's glue over painted floors kicking everything in and and we were going

"This is what the guys say This is what they're doing Go ahead." And we get down there as soon as we tried to stretch it

and pop everything We're like "What the what the what what are you telling me?" He's like "They're doing four units a day." Yeah How come you get like we're

stretching it he's like "Oh you're using a stretcher Just take it in the door Don't use it and kick everything in."

Dude I we can't like we're going to finish up these couple units and yeah you can just let them do all that We're

not going to we're not going to cut corners for on our end much of a distance The truth is is

you can't like you're not going to talk somebody like a you know to give Puit

some credit or Jorge Uh those guys aren't going to do these jobs They're not right and and they know the right

way to do the carpets that are on their projects I wouldn't do those jobs today

Nope Same That being said those jobs are getting done by someone Yeah they are

And and that's the point that I've I've been trying to prove for years I've I've been on a few other podcasts and we've had the same conversation There's so

many facets of the industry and this is no offense to anybody in the industry but a lot of the times people live in

their own little world of the industry and they don't understand that there's tons of different areas that you know

things happen things go on every single day and are done in certain ways every single day that that work Um it's

unfortunate and I would love to see everybody use a power stretcher and seam seal their seams when we're talking about you know stretching and

installation Um but you know if if everybody did that then our buddies that are on the tech side of the carpet world

wouldn't have jobs Yeah Well and frankly multifamily uh just wouldn't I mean it

wouldn't exist No because it's a rank to the bottom Yeah They cannot uh you know

put a $25 a yard which is a still a low lower-end carpet but they can't even do

that level of a product in those facilities and and have rent and and

stuff like that last when you know no matter how good the carpet is it's getting replaced after

one maybe two unit two uh leases Yeah that's it So

It's almost like it's a necessary evil in the industry and and is some of those things It's like

it just has to be what it is We we very rarely put in commercial broadboom

anymore but when we do it's in a tenant space where the property manager is like "Hey I only have a one-year lease on

this property We need some something uh the cheapest carpet you can possibly

find." And I'm like "Well I draw the line at the fiber." So it's gonna be a

nylon but you know eight n$9 dollar yard carpet glue down I mean there you just

can't get around it sometimes So yeah And it's it's funny when you're when you're you know when you're trying to do a good job oftent times it's you know

the cheaper products are a lot harder to work with and make um even even with those u you know those

super cheap you know 20 ounce stretchin carpets man Golly day Some of them hard

to make a seam look good Yeah it's hard to make a seam look good I don't care what you did that you know rows fall apart You cut a row in it fell apart Try

to straight edge it it'd fall apart I mean it it was just everything you could think of You could you could try to

decrease the teeth depth on your power stretcher if you was trying to power stretch it still leave you know marks in

the top of the carpet I mean there was tons of stuff that you had to be a lot better at You had to be more skilled to

do you know than high a lot of high-end carpets sometimes you just put them together they just fall together you

know um versus those cheap you know like peas and carrots Yeah like peas and carrots

They go together like peanut butter and jelly No I'm off my soap box about power

shifting for and No that was good I I think it was good that everybody you know kind of heard that and understands

that Uh at the end of the day uh I don't think anybody's trying to do a bad job

but there's only so much you can do for the pay and um it just it is what it is

Luckily most of the multif family today are all LVT So yeah luckily that's a big

part of it you know Those are fun How we get Andy on here We talk about carpet for 45 minutes Well he he clearly knows

carpet So you know I know I know a little bit about carpet He texted me

earlier today He said "What's it about today?" I said "I had to check." I don't know Resilient Well we talking about resilient too We had there's you know

what's funny is there's some of the same some of the same corners get cut in

resilient from multif family to to you know to normal you know retail and uh

commercial work But the the thing about it is is it's a lot easier to hide those cut corners in carpet than it is

resilient If you start That's what I was going to say Yeah If you start cutting corners and resilient it's going to show

the sins show worse on a cheap product than on an expensive product and and quicker if if you don't do a few things

that must be done Um you can wind up in a bad scenario with a a cheap

multifamily uh you know LVT you know 2 mil 2 millimeter 12 mil or 8 mil product

Yeah you got it's almost harder to install just like you said with the than a It's certainly harder than a you know

5 millimeter 20 mil wear layer like that stuff looks great when you're when it's

down you know yeah absolutely and it's all I mean to me for me it's all in floor prep right um one thing about any

kind of modular you know tiles LBT you know any kind of click product it's super easy to train anybody to do it you

know all three of my boys I've trained them to install LBT and and you know glue down LVT and any kind of click they

can all do it They're you know my oldest is 19 but the floor prep does you it's hard

to train that it comes with experience Yeah you know you can go to all the classes you want but you know every

floor every substrate's different when you go in there and you got to you got to understand how to get that floor

smooth enough for for you know glue down especially right and you know floating is a whole another monster because you

have to get it even more flat for for a floating floor than you do for glue down With glue down it's important that you

get it flat but smooth is way smooth is more important than flat You know you

can you can contour Now again not the not the best way to go but if you're if you have a customer looking for you know

a little less of a you know cost on price well they're not going to pay you to level it I mean at the end of the day

but you can get away with that on glue down versus a click Now the clicks man I'm telling you you got to be spot on

And that's where I see a lot of the failures from Even before when I was installing still I was helping some of

the stores that I consulted for by going and basically doing pre-insspections before they'd call an inspector If I was

in the area I'd stop by the job site and look at another installer's installation and and say "Yeah well I think this

might be a product issue." Or "No no we need to get this either need to get this guy back over

here." Oh we lost him And and then there he goes just need to get this guy back

over here And sounds like they did They said Z He got the call All right Well hopefully

uh he can come on and see everybody off here We have reached the end of our time with you guys Thanks again for joining

us as always every week Uh we we appreciate your guys' comments

I you never know I I did say that and then I was like but we'll see it has a

way of getting into stories after stories and there were some good ones there So appreciate the comments Uh and

everybody who's watching if you would do us a huge favor jump on click like and

subscribe if you're watching on YouTube tour of the plant tomorrow Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you That's

awesome That I'm excited about No that's one reason I am really sad that I couldn't make the FCICA uh deal today

That was um that was I was looking forward to that It's unfortunate I couldn't make it Yeah that's going to be

cool You have to you have to give us an update next week Pictures hopefully a little bit of video whatever they'll

allow I mean there's a lot of red tape up right but I'll see what I can do for for for the audience Awesome All right

Well everybody we appreciate you Uh we certainly appreciate every uh every bit

of the comments We appreciate Andy uh joining us again Give us a like a subscribe give us some comments on our

uh social posts Thank you Ben We had a great time Uh he said the episode was

really entertaining I want to say we had a great time doing it It's always fun to talk about the uh horror stories and the

fun times And Andy's going to come back on here and say goodbye to everybody as

well Hey I don't know what happened there I've had four calls dropped today

um randomly on the phone with I was on the phone with Kevin If you see Kevin there tell him I didn't hang up on

him April Fool's Day My my calls had just randomly been dropping and that was another one So my apologies for that

guys No worries We were just signing off and telling everybody to have a great Tuesday and that we'd see him next week

Hang out with us for just a second Andy as we shut down this podcast Again thank you everybody Like and subscribe Let's

keep this huddle going Thanks everybody