The Huddle - Episode 142 - BeYond the jobsite: unlocking sucCess through networking

Most installers focus on perfecting their craft—but what about the relationships that can take your career to the next level? This week, we’re going beyond the jobsite with special guest Lisbeth Calandrino to talk about the power of networking in the flooring industry and how the right connections can open doors you never imagined.

💡 What You’ll Learn in This Episode: How networking can open the door to bigger opportunities and better jobs. You’ll gain practical strategies to connect with the right people and make meaningful professional relationships. We’ll also explore why building connections is just as important as having a strong skillset. Plus, you’ll hear real-world insights from industry expert Lisbeth Calandrino on how to stand out and stay ahead in your career.

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value it doesn't always work like you have to work really hard at and you have

to be maybe cunning maybe cunning is the word but you have to be smart and you have to really understand how your

customer thinks and that's the whole thing about networking like

understanding your customer about 20 years ago the uh Stone Association hired

me to go talk to their customers so one of the first things I went to as I went

to uh Toronto Canada to work with Fabricators and um they said well what

do you think you want what do you want to talk about and I said well what do you want me to talk we don't know but they need help so I said how about I

teach Fabricators how to get more business this was in maybe middle 90s I

don't know but they I had 35 Fabricators course I didn't even know what the word meant to be honest because I wasn't in

the own business but I explained to them how they could Network and how they

could be online and they're like looking at me what in the world is

online online in the 1990s when um they started talking about

online somebody wrote a book and the book was all about that the internet will never be important to us he said

you think people are going to take a computer to the beach to read their racing novels no they're not they're not

carrying one of those things to the beach now we just take our phones right and we read everything but it's how do

you figure out it's called an inflection point how do you determine the next inflection in a business because there's

nothing out there that will show you that that and I'm going into my networking this but nothing out there

will show you that something is coming along so if you think about the cars

that we have today you know people would say oh wouldn't it be nice if we had a car that would drive us around and we

got old and we wouldn't have to ever touch the car and and but we'd be driving and somebody else would do it

well that came out quite 2016 I think and and you know people said oh that's

crazy and then they tried it and you know it didn't really work and there were accidents and all kinds of things

and people said oh that'll never work well the thing about inflection is that you can't see the trends you only see

how the trends work is you go oh that'll never happen to my God is that really

happening to oh my Heavens I have to catch up so the whole thing is to figure

out what you see or what your customer wants in the long run and who are your

partners and I think in our industry we haven't been good with that now I had I

had 10 Crews and I had seven stores we were out every day and once a month I

did training with my in stallers I had somebody come in I paid him for the day it wasn't as much as they could make on

a job but they said okay once once a month and you're doing one day a month

and you're going to teach us he was going to teach us new products it's funny he worked in the prison and he was an ex installer and he was really good

and we would come in and they would learn all kinds of new things that they needed because in my world they were my

partners I think what retailers don't understand a lot of times without

installation there is no there's no business because products I just went out looking for carpet for my stairs I

was never so depressed so much crap looked exactly alike it was like

nothing's changed and so I'm looking for stuff it all looks alike and and I'm thinking you know it's no better than

that ever was so it's kind of like how do you figure out you know what you

should be doing and and how do you become a partner with your installers so I don't think retailers realize that

until it's installed it's nothing they all look exactly alike so yeah one of

the things is to begin to understand what your customer wants now your customer you think is your retailer

whoever hires you but if you're if you could look past that and you could go out and begin to look around you can see

what customers want now you probably remember when nobody ever thought that Home Depot would do anything who would

go to Home Depot oh my Heavens you know nobody knows anything now you look at

the stupid commercial you seen the commercial where the guy says he says is this pet proof You' seen that Home Depot

the guy says well my dog likes this well we never thought and I used to do training at Home Depot in

1997 I worked for Mohawk at the time and they said well you have to teach them Floor Covering and I went oh my God and

you know they were eager to learn it's just nobody wanted that job it's just too much work you know but again it's

it's the agreement we have with the retailer that's really going to make you successful and I think in many ways

you've got to you've got to be able to educate the retailer now let me tell you

what I mean by that so where let me let me ask a let me ask a quick qualif quick

follow uh followup question here you're talking to the installer about uh

educating the retailer and so just to kind of it up a little bit yep we think

the retailer the retailer thinks oh I'm the one that's going to tell them what I need done because I got all the products

the thing is that the installer and I think he's a crafts person I never used

that word when I was in business I called them Crafts People Who install my

my uncle was a cabinet maker but if you called him a carpenter he went nuts he said I am a cabinet maker my father said

oh you're just an old you just how do you a hammer for God's sake he goes no no I'm a I'm a Craftsman and you know

I'm a cabinet maker so the thing is to understand where is the opportunity in

this world and I'm going to give you a couple things that I only know from me I

work with Realtors I teach Realtors and the thing that is so hot in this country

which I think for Floor Covering Crafts People is Aging in place now I want to

talk to you about what the maybe you already know but with the Aging in place phenomena we have we're trying to keep

people in their houses because there's no place to go that's the first thing you sell your house and then what are

you going to buy you haven't got enough money to buy anything to live anywhere and so the question is how do we make

homes age proof we have new kinds of products that go on the floor that go

underneath carpeting that can tell you how long somebody has stood on that floor whether they fallen out of bed

there's all kinds of new products and you know about curbless showers and things like that but I think that I mean

because Floor Covering is pretty boring if unless it's installed it's just there it is on my stairs they all look alike I

had 10 samples in my house I couldn't carry them they were huge like this and they were heavy and I said nope you just

got to go figure out one and I said what do I care I'll take one put it home and that's the end of it right

if it if it's good enough it'll be good enough but anyway going back to the Aging phenomena that's going on in this

country we're going to have more old people than we ever have we're living longer than ever before and if we get

those cars to drive us around then we're then we're here they're good we you know we don't wor a thing and our and we can

talk to surri and we can talk to Alexus we can say you know turn the lights on turn the lights off put me in bed get my

lunch we're good forever or at least at least another 20 years so looking at the

Aging phenomena what does that mean for an installer and I'm kind of kind of go out of the box a little bit with what

you do so you can take classes that have to do with aging which

means you can go in and assess a house now I go in and assess them for not not

flooring I can do flooring too but I'll go out and assess them for um doorways

how big doorways have to be how big shower is how low the cabinet should be but imagine if you could add that and

you could become aging specialists in your business now you go well we you

know we do floors well here's the thing we all do what we did but you got to stop doing what you did because you

don't know when the trend is coming that's the in it's called inflection you don't know when it's coming it's like

the guy who wrote the book and said nobody's going to sit on the beach and read their novel on what their computer

and what do we all do we do everything right and who's GNA nobody's going to turn the lights on in the house for you

right so anyway oh I I sort of got away from going to Canada and talking the

Fabricators one of the things that a lot of them are really interested in was being online and nobody was ever online

but I started talking about that and they went oh can you teach us about that

and I said yeah I can I hadn't really occurred to me they had but going back putting that with the aging and being

online I think one place where for you to network is to look at trending what's

going on in the world and seeing if you can get out of where you are just a

little bit so that you can begin to look different because when everybody does

the same thing who who wins the bid the lowest price yeah they sell the they

sell they say the lowest responsible bitter but man I've been up against some jobs and somebody got that job ahead of

me and boy they were not responsible but it didn't right you know what I'm talking about yeah yeah well a lot of

times when when it comes to this kind of thing and we're talking about uh We've hit on a lot of different topics here

but when it when it comes to uh you know networking

and um uh you you find some of these opportunities like you say AG in place I

mean what are we doing right now the Huddle has been built around a conversation with people surrounded on

flooring but a conversation with people I I get to meet people like you and I I've met you at a show before but I mean

I get to meet people like you uh on the Huddle it's a it's a networking it's

it's a form of networking um and you get to learn things like you know how the

Aging in place trend is going to be a it's obvious it's going to be a big uh

Trend in the future what do you suggest to people who want to get around uh

those those atmospheres specifically when you're talking about installers a lot of us uh I'm an old

installer myself so uh when I installed like I went and I installed and then I

went home we we if if I had one thing I could think back on that kind of helped

me was a little bit of networking and I got to know some designers and I got to

know a really prominent local designer who started giving me all their work and

it was it was that type of thing that that increased my business and allowed

me to actually open up a an actual full service flooring company so what do you

say to installers like what are some easy ways uh we we've talked about

online I think that that Facebook and those types of deals uh could be utilized better for networking than uh

it's currently used in the flooring industry which is US posting our job and

then having other people come in and talk crap on it which seems to be more

more of the trend but like networking and getting to know one another um and

and uh doing that kind of thing what what's your uh take on that okay so going along with that I was going to get

to something very similar to that but here's the thing one of the things that now you said you go home first of all

you're tired when you get home because what you do is a lot of work now I just talk all day long and I could talk well

into midnight so it doesn't matter but you're physically tired so to say to you what you you want to go out and go to a

n networking thing maybe oh my god do I have to do that but okay so talk about your architect I think it's you actually

showing what you do I think that if you let's say you're working with a retailer

and retailers do all of these Garden shows and trade shows right spring is coming they do all of these spring shows

and they bring their products no they should be bringing an installer and you should be actually installing in front

of the customers and showing what you did it could be you doing a pattern with

a luxury vinyl floor or are you doing terazo or something you could actually

show because the customer really buys that we're not talking about a a customer that never saw a piece of

carpet anymore or they know everything we know but what they don't know is how

you get it done and I think that's the part where your networking has to come in so if you join a builder's

Association and you say you're on you're on the speaking ticket whatever they do and you say okay I'm going to do a

two-hour workshop on how to do something and you're going to actually show it and

you're going to show them the moldings and the transition strips and here's what I suggest this is see this would be

my father you make it as intricate as you can make it sound how hard it is to

do what you do and how we measure this much and how we match the colors and we

get interior designers and you bring your paint samples with you get one of those big fand decks open it up and see

now I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to find something a transition that looks right with here what do I use a marble

and you do the intricacies because I still think women are the ones buying those floors if we're look if we're

looking at retail look ceramic tile is one of the worst if you can't do the transition

strips and if you can't figure off the trim don't come to my house I had

somebody put a piece of vinyl no a piece of metal in one of my doorways I said what are you nuts what why would I have

a piece of you just put in a piece of wool carpet is that a metal strip for God's sakes and I knew the guy he said

oh I didn't think you want to pay I think it was marble I said this much marble I think it was 18 bucks I think I

can handle it but I think for you it is explaining the intricacies and maybe you

can see now when you go to a trade show like that you're not working I get that part but if you could do some of that

kind of networking and go out there and install because they're going to see you

take a piece of flooring and you look at it it's just a piece of flooring but when you put it down and you do the

intricacies and you do the moldings and the Transitions and all the things you have to go through then the customer

pays customers don't pay for sess and in my experience and I don't care all the

retailers can call me I don't care the thing is they don't do that part they spend a whole lot of time explaining who

cares whether it is a nylon or an olant now you're gonna say oh yeah big deal it

depends how many people you have in the I have me and one cat yep and my cat is the biggest fluffy things and if I tell

him to walk on the side and don't walk in the carpet he'll walk over there so the point is how much traffic do you get

in your house and and what do you want your house to look like if you if you want just want a piece of flooring go to

the Home Depot and you ask the guy is this pet proof and he says I don't know my dog likes it no but the the business

is not in that end of the spectrum the business has got to be in the higher end

because you won't make any money that's same well I do I do I do like the uh

something you said about the uh you know like the spring the Builder shows all

the spring home shows and these things you know going there and uh it's an

interesting thought here the retailers go but what if a group of installers went and built a

booth and did an installation deal uh because go Carrera which is my company

that um so own a commercial flooring company that is a you know we do hotels

hospitals restaurants casinos stuff like that and then I own I own um uh go

Carrera which is uh soon to be trade tap and trade tap is uh an is an example

Jose where I could get some trade tap installers at a uh at a uh home show and

show like demand trade tap you know demand uh transparency these kinds of things

um but the the idea is a group of installers or an or an installer going

and showing like demand quality and showing all the intricacies that you do

so that when the install when the homeowner goes and buys from a you know

a retailer or something of that nature that they they have um a little bit of

consumer demand for good quality installation because you're right Liz one of the biggest things that we we say

all the time the flooring has zero value until it's installed and you can take the same

product and have two different installations and have two totally different perceived values based on that

installation same product but the way it's laid out the way the seams are done

on the carpet or the groud joints look or or whatever the scenario they're they

can have two totally different perceptions of value on the same exact product and it all bears on the

installer and the installation of it and um so I I think that's kind of a a cool

idea to go uh you know to a home show and and a lower level um networking

possibility is installers going to home shows and talking to the retailers and the the people that are there and

getting to know them and letting them know what you're about and more about

you know your skill set if you have a profile on our platform share your

information on that tell them what your skill score is uh but you know promote

yourself a little bit through that uh networking event or that that opportunity at a at a trade show or a

Home Show in your local community uh we do also promote heavily that like get

out to TI to coverings to you know CFI con Ven and go to you know the uh

different uh industry events and get to know some some people and network

through there but when you're talking about networking for business uh the home show idea is uh a pretty

substantial one well so here's I'm definitely guilty of attending that to to network um I've attended the past few

years here or a local one and I do I go there with my backpack with a pocket full of business cards and I and and I

go to all of the the retail shops you know are you the owner you're not the owner right this is what we offer you

know to the contractors this is this is uh who I am this is what we're about what are you guys seeing right now and

and even the other flooring stores that go there and you know they have the higher end custom uh flooring stores

that that only do custom projects and that I I Network for the even for the

labor side I did uh think about doing the like you had mentioned uh the Hands-On uh approach and maybe

displaying uh some skill sets there right um n she just wrote that down so

I'm going to have to see what the the cost is and what what it it entails and what it looks like to okay let me take

you a step further so you can do it so I would partner with a retail store a bunch of retail stores I get a penny or

dime off everything I sell too what I would do is have somebody help you set that up and that becomes the focal think

about a home builder the home builder doesn't take you out and show you you don't care you're buying

the wood for your house you know I don't care what the wood looks like I you see the house built or I'm showing you the

granite yeah you pick out the granite but it doesn't look like anything till it becomes part of the cabinets or right

so I think that we go we start at the wrong end we've always started from the

product end and then worked inside no my father used to show you these pictures of these houses he did he didn't show

you what he put in there he just showed you how beautiful it was in the end so I would work see we do TI I think there's

a mistake in TI here's the mistake I think there ought to be there ought to be consumers there they ought to have a

day of consumers where the consumer goes and looks now see I think it's nice that

you go and you show the retailers how good you are and you show each other that's not getting you as much as you

could get if a consumer came by and said I can't believe you built that with that

and I want that so if you could find a way to look at a home show and work with

the retailer say listen let's look at products that we could install you do during the day you do maybe every hour

you do another product and you show pieces and how you make things look really nice I think you could really

clean up with this and I think it it also differentiates you it takes your

skill level and your thought level to an to another place people go I didn't know

that's what happened I mean if you look at a landscaper you know they don't they

don't show you every Bush they show you what all the bushes look like when it's done you go I want my place to look like

that you don't care what he put in the corner you know maybe you do of course what kind of things but the point is we

start from the wrong end as retailers we spend more time promoting our Goods that look like nothing and then the person

who the crafts person goes in has to argue with the consumer because the the Floor Covering people don't know

anything about what you do they don't know how it gets done they don't know the intricacy so they can't upsell it

and listen a lot of retailers make money on their in their install that's the place where they make it right sometimes

they sell they'll sell the material at nothing to get it out and then they're going to find a way to charge we all

have to find a way to show our worth and to make money anyway I would do the thing for architect shows I would find

yeah so on on that uh I sorry to interrupt I wanted to get to some

comments there's been some comments about the designers Network um and so Jorge was talking

about you know talking to the local designers and uh then Nate Hall had

posted as.org uh that is the you know you'll find your

local chapter of your architectural and design firms and getting in front of

them because they also have you know architectural design Community uh events

and so uh working working with them and getting designers to know you that's a

super good way I know Jorge gets a lot of business that way it's as I mentioned early on one of the one of the things

that really helped me grow was uh working directly with designers and I still do that today with uh with several

and uh one last thing is um Jorge had stated that you know working with

retailers I mean he says it's better to work with the builder versus the retailer y uh this this can be true um

there there's some complexities depending on where you're working in the United States with how different Builders handle things uh if you have

the ability and your area uh demands it meaning the Builder require you know

doesn't buy the materials um yeah you may have to purchase materials and labor and be out

some money so there's some risk uh uh associated with working directly with

the builder um you make sure you have good payment terms and those kinds of things the one thing with a retailer is

typically it's paid out on a weekly basis uh so there's good and bad I don't

know if it if better is the term I would use it's just understand the difference

between working with a a retailer versus working with a builder uh from a from a

pure amount of money Pro you know Revenue standpoint how much you can

charge per foot you're probably going to get more from the Builder than you are the retailer but you're going to get

paid on different terms with the builder versus getting paid weekly with the retailer so there's there's just

considerations there I did both and so I was getting paid weekly over here and

then I afforded me to be able to do Builder or general contractor's work over here and be able to afford to wait

for the money as our company matured so yeah there's think about driving business to your retailer see we think

the retailer drives business to you for a lot of times right but when you do these other things you're actually

partnering with the retailer and you're driving business to them also so if you're out working with an architect or

an architect show if you can get in and you do these things and then all of a

sudden there you are you're you're in the driver's seat in a way because you're at the better end of the spectrum

you're able to command more money for them and drive customers to them see I

don't think that we see we've seen the industry that way we're always trying to get the retailers says they do the thing

and you come and you do it no how about you have as you have as much Cloud as they do or more so why not try to drive

it the other way a little bit and say listen I can get you business but it won't be for free but I can get you

business so you find a way to drive the business back in and if you're out with Architects and let's go back to the

Aging because because a lot of the builders are aging in Place certified Builders and they're all looking for

people like that now there's not the place is not flooded with them but there are a lot because I teach Aging in place

to Realtors and I bring in the builders and I I bring in the people do the security systems and all those kind of

things but that market again remember that whole thing about inflection point

you don't see it till it's there you know I'm just telling you something that's in my head and by the time you

see it it's too late you're at the bottom of the scale again competing on price but yes interior designers

Architects um anybody who people who do spec houses maybe if there's enough

money in that for you but I would look that way and even if you think about now

how am I going to train my people what can I do or where can I get new people I just want to talk a bit

about wyola which is the workforce Innovation money that I happen to have

in 19 um 86 there was there was a program called

Workforce and what happened was it got changed in 2016 it was for the trades

anybody who needed to train people right okay in 2016 it actually be became the workforce

Innovation Opportunity Act and to get that kind of money you had to prove to

them that your trade was worthy nobody in our industry has ever done that and they should have done it a long time ago

it shouldn't have been two crazy people like a friend of mine and I decide you know what let's see if we can get money

it took us three years but we can train we can give money to anybody who wants

money to train you say we want to teach them this we want to teach them that you get me the instructor and I'll get you

the money now in order for us to do that we have to find a community college that has the workforce Innovation program

you've probably seen them all over it says that oh you got call a college and say do you are you a Workforce College

they have electrical programs plumbing and they say yes I have one tomorrow with the Bronx for me the Bronx has got

to be a hit because they got probably need more people there to to go to work and the Bronx is where tomorrow I have a

meeting with them the point is that you have to keep yourself educated and keep

moving so if you said we want to be trained on this so we'll find somebody to train you the Community College says

you're approved we are yes we're a company that's approved to have the money but we can't we don't get the money and we need somebody to take to to

actually put the program out and then you just go ahead and sign up for your programs but there's all kinds of ways

and I think those are marketing employes for you see these things help you market so you go to your interior designer or

you go to your architect and you say we just learned this new thing or this is

something we know is critical to our business we can see it in the future it's the enging piece and this is how

we're going to have to do showers and this is how we're going to have to do this that the other thing and again it's

that inflection thing you maybe can't see it it's like the computer by the time it gets here it's too damn late you

go oh yeah but you're on the road just take it a step further with your interior designers and your Architects

and your you know your shows yeah and I think that uh some of the comments are are around um The

Faults of uh salespeople at retailers and one of the things that I see as an

opportunity where installers can actually make a big difference is is

taking similar to what you said taking people like getting them business and

you do all the selections with your customer and you make a deal with the retailer that hey I want to uh get my

customer into a product I want a salesperson with me from your store that can give me pricing but at the same time

I want to work around and make sure uh that the customer gets what they want

and what I'm what my customer needs so Jorge you know talks about sales reps uh

at stores falling down on you know getting just the appropriate padding because they're trying to push something

that is uh in stock versus ordering the proper pad well if you are driving that

that sale and you're just working with you're the actual customer to the retailer even though your customer is

going to pay the bill you're you're acting as a liaison in a way and making sure that they get uh the right product

and you know like the the this is

um this is the problem that I see a lot of installers talk about that work with

retailers is the salese at these retail if they've never been certified through

like CFI or something on on the flooring so they understand what they're selling

then you know they sell something that is and they when I say sell something

they present it in a way and they set customer expectations at a level that are impossible to meet by the installer

and then the installer is the one that takes the hit and I know that's what the big problem is like they don't none of

us want to be the bad guy because the expectation was not set correctly

and that's part of the sales process so if you kind of take over that sales process for your customers and you make

a deal with a retailer hey I'm going to bring people in I will want I want to meet with your sales staff and see which

one uh you know I work best with and then I'm going to request him each time

or her each time and when I come in I'd like to meet with him have them meet with me and my client I'm G to drive the

conversation with my client and we're going to find the best products for you that kind of a uh of a relationship is

probably a good way for an installer to circumvent this problem that so many of

them have with the retailers is actually you know take the take the rein of the

cell and take your customer in there um and then um you

know the customers that go in there and get sold by salesman maybe let another installer uh handle it but

yeah that's the um I'm gonna I'm gonna and then you can also make a a design uh

fee typically a a little rebate back from that retailer as well on the sale of the flooring so it's a twofold thing

you're going to make a little bit of uh money I know plenty of designers that do this thing and so you just kind of

taking that uh you you're stepping in that place tell tell me what your your thoughts are there uh Jorge so or Jose

sorry I got Jorge on the mine Jay you're happy um so you know it's

it's a little odd the conversation and where it went today and and how what we're talking about because uh today I

actually talked to two two installers from from the past right one of them still installing the other one's been

out of the game for just over three years now and it was weird to bump into him and what the part of the

conversation right now what we're just talking about is what pushed him away from the industry now the reason we met

back up is because now his daughter has taken over like like the binding and the surging and and the rugs portion of it

and um we've uh brought a couple jobs her her way recently and she was like

and I I finally went to her place and she was like yeah my dad my dad shops right next door I was like what really

so I called him as I was leaving he was like are you in the white truck I was like he's like come on in man so he gave

me a tour of what he's doing now and he's doing well for himself and uh he's applying his skills but what we just

said and and the lack of communication and understanding of the processes and the false promises um from the sales

aspect is what pushed him out he wanted so badly to be a salesperson and Sell

Solutions but every place that he went to because you know he's he's a he was an installer right he's a proprietor and

he did high-end residential high-end commercial like he was he's really good at what he does and he understands the

science behind everything and every time he went to go get off his knees in a sales position at a company it was never

about being a solutionist it was always about sell sell sell you could you could

sell more he's like but I can't make them promises that we can't keep we don't have the right installers for what

you're asking me to do that's where that hybrid model kind of works better right

don't don't try to go get a sales position make a deal with two or three retailers that hey I'm going to bring

clients in here I want to meet with uh your salespeople I'm going to pick one

and that's going to be my salesperson when I come in here and I'm going to pick out the flooring with my client

walk around all I need the salesperson for is

a uh you know for your pricing and so that I can work that out and then what I

would expect back is 10 or 15% uh rebate back off of the sale on every sell that

I bring in here and then I'm going to handle the installation so you don't have to handle the installation either

I'm going to sell and install the entire project that is a really good model for

an installer to follow with a retailer especi and this is an upper end Guy this

is not I don't mean upper end like only doing million doll homes or something I just mean somebody who's skilled at the

trade really good a yep and B has some

professionalism to him and understand how to talk to clients and if you're the guy that's just going to go install

that's fine too but this so there this is just for a demographic that really

understands um that I want to make sure my client gets the right stuff I want to take them in and and have them buy the

product I'd rather them I'd rather do that for my client and say hey just go pick something out at Home Depot or

Florida core or you know Lowe's or whatever or go find a retailer because the salesman's going to sell what they

have in the warehouse that's what they're going to do that's what they're incentivized to do um

make sale on the on the product that they could generate the most margin right and that's yeah and that's going

to be the product that they stock and so if you can just you take the reins of

the whole sale take them into a retailer and retailers are not going to tell you no I mean I'm not going to say none of

them would but for the most part you're just saying look I'm gonna come in I'm gonna bring a client with me I'm going

to show them the product they're going to pay for it right then I'm going to come pick up the product from you and

install I want a 15% rebate on the sale of the material and I need a Salesman just only

I'll do the measuring I'll do the figuring I'll take responsibility for that that's why I get a 15% margin and

then uh I'm going to do the installation because I want it done right and so you don't have to do any of the scheduling

or any of that I will tell you when I'm going to come pick up the material and go install the product so it really

takes a big burden off the retailer so a lot of times they like that kind of scenario but you got to be willing to

you know put on uh put on the clothes and go have that conversation or go to

the home show and have that conversation okay how about Network I created on

accident that's how we accidentally created that just like not under all

those details but that is exactly how we built our relationships nice yeah all

right Liz tell us about networking okay no you're talking about n how about you do this so now you want to going to have

a relationship with the salesperson here's another way to do that talk about networking I when I was in business none

of my salespeople were allowed to talk to anybody until they went out with an installer you had to go out with the

installer for a week and I don't mean standing around getting the coffee I mean what you had to do is you had to be

cleaning up you had to be figuring out what you needed to do where the scraps went how not to leave the tackles around

because we did a lot more carpet in those days but I would work with work

with the salespeople say to the retailer send me a salesperson on a job now you

he takes a picture see I'm a salesperson I'm new I sell this product I go out with you I watch you install it I take

all these pictures of you installing and videos and I put them up now I've marketed you and I've marketed our store

see it's that relationship that we need to really build with whoever we're working for how can I help them do

business I think we all have to think that way St I'm thinking how can I help you do business right that's my job

today I can tell you what I've done and how I've done it you don't care you want to know if I've got something for you we

all think about what's in it for me so if you can ha the retailer look let me take your St let me take your person out

uh we're going to install that product for him I'm going to show him the intricacies then we're going to post them all over the Internet we're going

to put them on your Instagram we're going to put them on every place you want to put it now the sales person now

has more confidence in what they're selling and they understand it better and they say okay now now I know where

where the problems are before they have one you know and so I would work

backwards you your idea working with the salesperson is great no matter how you want to do it but there is another way

which is to get them out on your jobs as part of their gig and you say I'm going to show them how to I'm going to show

them what to do and look you can always say to the retail listen you know the more I show them the less screw-ups

they're going to have and the less money you're going to lose and I'm going to lose because bottom line we're all

losing if I'm short we're if we don't have the right Transitions and we don't

have the right moldings we're all have a mess here so I think those are good things and you know what you're talking

with the salesperson and the retailer now if you're doing the big Hospitality stuff maybe it's you going to the

hospitality show too and doing a gig there because those are the people that're going to have to pay right and

they're going to be huge repeat customers for you if you're talking about coing if you're talking about all the kinds of products they now have to

use I I spoke last year at ISA which is the um it's environmentally friendly and

these are people that do commercial cleaning I spoke at their show about how to get more business and how they could

actually use woa to train their people think about that show as a place that you can go and again you could work that

through an architect you say listen I think I'd like to do a couple shows what ones do you think I can do and how can I help you do

business again it's it's our all we're looking out for somebody else and once

you start thinking that way it'll come back to you you know if we're out looking for work all the time it's kind

of hard to see our value we're just like anybody else but if we can say let me come out I'll show you a way you can

sell this better now I sometimes still get appointments for Architects with

retailers to bring them in because I know a lot of them and I have brought in installers because the architect will be

telling me this is the way it goes and I'll say with all the respects when was the last time you were on a job you have

no way you know how that goes simple as that and so I bring in an installer a crafts person and I make sure I said

stop with your installers everybody installs all these people installs but they're Crafts People and if you want it

done so that it looks like a craft that's who you should be hiring so again

you're networking I would look a little you know different shows yeah I'm wrri down a lot a lot I

have a lot I have two pages of notes right now I hardly ever had that much notes off of a show good I hope

we Jose what do you what do you think um you know also networking with other

installers in your area not just going to the place doing the job and calling

it good but you know cfi's got a big uh push for you know the um for the local

chapters and that's beneficial I know that some of those you know there's

various skill sets within those chapters and so people have different things I

hope that there's sharing in those chapters hey I've got a project that's got hardwood on it I I can get the the

whole job but I I do tile or I do carpet and uh you know vinyl but I don't do

hardwood and is there one of you guys a hardwood guy and you know you can get

some through that Network even you can get some uh some business and help each

other out what are your thoughts around that so that that is one of the things I wrote down like I I wrote down a couple

places about the the home shows uh get with Architects and designers and then one of the notes I have right here is

with other installers right like not just my installers not just us but with other installers and is

uh under what you just said there like I want someone who is proficient in in in

Wood installation who is proficient in hard surface um who specializes in showers right I I want I want that

person there like the goal for me is not to to advocate for just me the goal for for for me would be to advocate for the

industry and say that yes we are all here to help you get connected with the

right person for the for the right project and that's what I that's what I wrote down was like that'd be a great

way to not only say let's team up gentlemen like you're really good at

that's one of the benefits I see when you're when you're doing those kinds of things I know that at CFI convention I

hear plenty of guys talking to one another about jobs they're doing and then I see on Facebook a few weeks later

they're working together on a hotel project or a something project and I

mean it's pretty cool Daniel our co-host what's up brother good to see you uh

joining us um but yeah it's I think that you the

more you can get out and and I get it because we're working a lot that's where

we make our money right but um there's also other opportunity to make a higher

profit on your labor than just working all the time and if you get so bogged

down with that that you don't take a half day some you know once a month or you know a half day a couple times a

month to just commit that to going out and networking with other installers maybe just set up a uh you know a a time

to meet at the local uh you know Chili's or whatever and and have a drink

together and discuss projects and and who can help how uh you know

that type all the way to going to the trade shows and going to the home shows

and I love I really do like the idea of going to a home show and really setting up a booth as an installer and and

showing your skill set and then going around handing out cards as well to the to the retailers but I I do uh I do

think there's something to teaming up with the retailer you said it plenty of times Liz about how can I help you do

business and that is one way you can really help a retailer do business and do it better that homeowner that you

take in is going to have a better experience if they have you as an installer as as a trade professional uh

they're with them guiding them to make sure they get the right product you know they you you you do a little bit of re

you know know your customer I guess is what I'm trying to get out of my mouth uh and you know their traffic patterns

you know they got six kids and and two dogs and uh you know spills everywhere

and so making sure they get the right product uh you understand their subfloor and you understand their door swing and

and their door Heights and all these things uh and I also like something really valuable you said about you know

specifically kind of honing in on this uh age in place and becoming an expert there because that that's another piece

of business that you can really um you know team up and and uh take new

business to a a retailer that really doesn't understand there's a few there's a handful of Architects and designers

that are doing this but yeah you'd be surprised how how need how big of a need that's going to be like you said an

inflection point you don't see it until it's too too late and then you're trying to catch up now is the time to start

learning that and really get ready you know that's good the fact that you know the retailer spends a lot of time trying

to figure out I don't need to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to get business they figure out how to put their product out I think there's a

whole difference between me showing my product and me getting business and I think most of the time it's I gotta get

my product no the whole thing is what does my customer want that's why I think that

Ty should have a day a half a day where you present your skills and you work

with a manufacturer and show how a product gets installed

because then the consumer says oh I should be paying attention to that and you know the picky Ones Will and the

ones who want to spend more money will look at those kind of things so the more ways you can think of how do I get you

business because in return if you can help them and you're out there right so you're out there you're in houses you

see what what the mess is going on in there you know that there I'll never forget this my this is my I'll never

forget this till I die I installed white carpeting in a house house I'll never forget it and I used to tell a customer

nobody gets white carpeting they would say I want white and they go I'm sorry nobody gets white carpeting because

you'll ruin it well we did the job and we told them to get the dog well the dog got out and the dog stepped in the tacus

and before we got out of the house that was blood all over the carpet right I swear I'll never ever forget that you

know it's things like that that you can help your retail or salesperson with

more you can work with them the more money you're going to make and the more the less money everybody's going to lose

again post everything online and you know what can you write an article go

online go to chat GPT write an article on 500 words write your article in

whatever kind of language you use that's what I do and then I give it to chat and say okay fix it and then put it up there

like if you could give that to a retailer say hey how about we post something on installation I can get you

yeah 300 words on whatever this kind of how to build how Court what do you call it shower how how to build you know some

kind of a shower whatever get a wheelchair through how big the doors have to be you know those kind of things

yeah and post a picture with it that's a networking yep I wanna I want to add to

what you just said too about you know you're you're you're helping you're creating a relationship a partnership so

to speak um so I'm using that and just to add to it for the installers out

there just you know kind of like a buy or beware make sure that your values and

the sales team that you're partner up with make sure that they do align first I will I will say that um learning

experience for Daniel and I is is creating those relationships and bringing success to these companies that

didn't really they saw opportunity not value right so the opportunity was for us to

help create relationship with clients so that way there was negotiated work left on the table for them and the client was

under the impression that it was going to be us doing the install um so you know fast forward a little bit we

eventually got phased out but they got accustom to what we were charging in our dollar amounts and then found someone

else who was similar but didn't have to pay out so just make sure that the

values do align so that way you don't get taken advantage of and investing years into creating relationships that

um might not see your value um they only see the opportunity uh for for their

future marriage a bad marriage yeah get getting um getting a a clear

understanding up front with your with your partners but you know when you're

bringing enough value to them um like

you just want to have I don't know if I would marry any

retailer in these scenarios just date them and

isn't it just dating yeah just da and and and uh make

sure you don't get too deep uh but your brother touched on with a comment he

said the more money I can make them the more money they'll yes so that's that's a valuable comment and true and uh you

know if you and then Nate says uh conversely if

you stop putting money in pockets they will stop whittling you checks I I think

he meant writing you checks so the the I think his comment is in the bottom line

is kind of like that not not marrying them but uh you know going into these uh

locations and whether it's a g a um a flooring company or or a retailer and

building those relationships see how you can make them more money but also always look out for uh your your bottom line as

well so uh with that we have come up at the end of the podcast already it's amazing how much time uh how much uh you

know how fast time goes so it's been a a real interesting conversation and a a I

think a lot of value there's a lot of nuggets there for people to go out and network and earn more uh then like I

really think that earning more per project and not ripping people off but

like our trade is behind on what it should be paid versus uh you know

1995 when I started installing and I I started subcontracting in 99 and in 99 I

was getting paid about 275 a yard to three bucks a yard depending to lay

commercial carpet and today it's about 50 cents to a dollar maybe different

and so you know we have to build the value in the installation and uh you know one of the ways is like becoming

more professional and that's kind of what networking and building relationships can do for you so uh Liz I

really appreciate you today it's been a great conversation thank you for all your knowledge and your energy it's been

awesome uh thank you so much I want to tell everybody in the audience thank you guys for joining us thanks for all the

comments I would look forward to some more comments on social media so if you catch us on there please give us a like

a subscribe you know give us some comments on there let us know uh you know what you uh took from this

conversation in particular the most and uh you know how you may Implement that

in your business uh catch us on YouTube as well and all of the podcast platforms

with that uh we are going to uh sign off for this week and we'll catch you guys

next week same time same place 3:00 p.m

Central right here every Tuesday sorry and if you're in in Jose's uh area of

the world it's four o'clock so catch us all right everybody thank you for

joining us today and we'll see you guys next week thank you for all your Insight