The Huddle - Episode 217. The Industry Doesn't Need More Opinions. It Needs More Mentors.
The flooring industry has plenty of opinions. What it needs more of are people willing to invest their time in someone else's growth.
There is an incredible amount of knowledge held by the installers, contractors, business owners, trainers, and industry professionals who have spent decades learning this trade. That experience is valuable, but its real impact comes from what happens when it's shared with the people coming up behind them.
In this episode of The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose talk about what real mentorship looks like and why it's different from simply telling someone what they're doing wrong. They discuss the patience it takes to teach, the importance of allowing younger professionals to make mistakes and learn from them, and the responsibility experienced people have to help develop the next generation.
It's easy to criticize from the sidelines. Mentorship requires you to step in, share what you know, and stay long enough to help someone improve.
If we want better installers, stronger leaders, and a healthier flooring industry in the future, we can't just keep talking about what needs to change. Someone has to be willing to teach the people who will change it.
⬇️ Don’t miss our sponsors who help make The Huddle possible:
🔧 ShagTools.com
Your go-to source for professional flooring tools, supplies, and accessories.
🛒 Use code HUDDLE10 for 10% off your first order!
👉 Shop ShagTools.com
🚀 Go Carrera
Build your profile, prove your skills, and connect with contractors—all in one place.
👉 Learn more at GoCarrera.com
🛠️ Stubbi Tools by Preferred Flooring
Installer-designed tools that work as hard as you do.
👉 Check out Stubbi Tools
NAFCT
NAFCT is a leading provider of flooring solutions, offering top-quality training, certifications, and support to elevate the industry.
👉 Learn more: https://www.nafct.com
🔹 Divergent Adhesives
Innovative adhesive solutions crafted for performance and reliability in the flooring industry.
👉 Check them out: https://www.divergentadhesives.com
🔗 Meet all our sponsors & partners: https://thehuddle.team/sponsors
Stay Connected & Join the Conversation!
The Huddle Podcast is where the flooring industry comes together to connect, learn, and thrive! Recognized as the #1 podcast in the flooring community, we provide an unmatched platform for professionals to discuss everything from installation techniques to industry trends.
At The Huddle, we’re all about driving Forward Progress—empowering seasoned installers, contractors, and flooring enthusiasts to grow, innovate, and lead in their craft. Whether you’re looking for real conversations, actionable insights, or inspiration to take your career to the next level, The Huddle is your home for real discussions that matter.
Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email forwardprogress@thehuddle.team
We want to send a special shoutout to our sponsors!
FloorCloud
FloorCloud revolutionizes jobsite management with its cutting-edge platform, allowing contractors to remotely monitor ambient conditions like temperature and humidity in real-time. Paired with rugged sensors and instant mobile alerts, their technology ensures installations meet manufacturer specifications, reducing liability and enhancing quality control. Learn more at https://floorcloud.com
Go Carrera
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/
Preferred Flooring
Preferred Flooring proudly introduces Stubbi Flooring Tools—designed by installers for installers. Stubbi tools are crafted for precision, durability, and ease of use, helping flooring professionals tackle any project with confidence. Explore the full Stubbi line at https://preferredflooringmi.com/stubbi
Please visit our new website! https://thehuddle.team
What is up team? Welcome back to the huddle, the number one podcast in flooring. We are here every week to help
you guys maintain forward progress in your career. Simply put, we're here every week to help you guys win. On the
show today, as always, Mr. Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Grand Rapids,
Michigan. What's up, fellas? What's going on, brother?
Bring the excitement. I'm trying to get that mic out of my way here. Jump up and do do a dance or something.
That's not me. I don't I don't dance. Our sponsors for the day.
But he does get down. But he does get down. Oh, Jorge. First comment. There's a guy
in uh Breenriidge, Colorado that I met at a restaurant called First Chair Fred
and he has been on the he was the first one in line for at that point 30 years.
He was the first chair Fred. He he was on every every single day he was on the
first chair during opening season. So, Jorge is our first chair, Fred, and our
sponsors for the day is NAFFC and Divergent Adhesives.
NFCT is your go-to place for training. particularly. They go great at floor
prep, resilient flooring, uh flat the more technical side of uh
you know, you get into integral cove or flash cove as a lot of people call it, heat welding, rubber flooring.
I I would love if uh NFCT would launch a sports flooring piece. It's very similar
to uh to uh the sheet vinyl world, but there are some key differences
that uh I think um could be added on to that that would make it even better. Uh
and I see Daniel smile. I don't know if that's cuz he's like, "Yeah, I already thought of that, bro." But
well, no, it's it's a work in progress. Work in progress. All right. So, NFCTS,
like I said, man, it is the go-to place for getting your VTI score up. Uh, a lot
of their courses are live on their training hub, so go check them out. Uh,
our other sponsor for the day is Divergent Adhesives, the divergent
himself. If you need a realworld solution to these realworld
tough projects, don't go by theory. Go by divergent. And by go by divergent, I
mean go by divergent. Their adhesives will help you get through some of the hardest pro uh
projects that you're going to come up against. Whether it's time, you know, dry times, high tac stuff. I can tell
you that for sure. It is high-te adhesive. uh particularly I love their their uh
PSAs. So go check them out at Divergent Adhesives. Like the tagline says, their experience
ensures your success. And you know Sunny, he does everything uh top-notch.
So go check it out. Today's topic, the industry doesn't need more opinions, it
needs more mentors. You know, I gotta say one of the thing
that Is that Is that your opinion? Well, I I was going to say one of the I
I was just on Facebook and seen a guy dogging uh installer training and said,
"Ah, you're better off just going and getting with an old-timer and having him show
show you what that guy got got this topic right and wrong at the same time."
Like, it's his opinion. First off, uh I think that's a really horrible way to
look at things. Like you don't need training. I've yet to meet a guy. He obviously hasn't went and got his
certifications or trainings or really got involved in the community. But uh or
I just say not even just the community, more involved in the culture of knowing
what the hell you're doing. like knowing, not figuring it out and then finding something that you you can get
by with, but actually knowing what the manufacturer and you know the industry
standards say to do. Um, but and it's his opinion about that and at the same
time he's like just go give it to an old-timer and get mentored by them. So I think he got it right and wrong in the
same post, right? because I think some of the best mentors are probably some of the guys
that you'll meet at some of these training events because they've been through the ringer and uh
can teach you a lot about what they've failed on so that way you
don't have to do go through that for sure. And you know why go through
preventable failures? you're going to have the difficulties in installation
regardless, but why go through preventable failures? And I can tell you working with uh oh, I'll just say some
certain inspection people talking with them.
best way to put it like you're up against if you're not trained, you are
automatically you have two or three things against you automatically when somebody comes out
and starts to inspect your work. They're
automatically going to like you're not speaking the lango, you're not speaking
the language. Um, even if you did it right, a lot of times you don't know how to say that you did it right,
you start talking the language, speaking their language, and you can win a lot of
those battles. Um, that's about I know that seems pretty like obscure, but um I
don't want to throw any particular people under the bus, but it's pretty well-known fact that anytime you get an
inspection from a manufacturer, who who's paying them, right?
Yeah. Who's paying? you have to have uh and
unfortunately uh it's it's more like you have to prove you're you did it right as opposed to,
you know, uh them proving you did it wrong because they're going to do that regardless. Their first thing that they
look for, very first thing is was it installed properly? I can tell you from
experience, they don't pull the records of the manufacturing run and see if there is any other
problems with that run or check, you know, industry to see if there's any
problem with that other installers have had with that particular run or any of that. That's your that's where it's
going to fall on you. But the more you know and the more people you know, the better off you're going to be to get
away from that kind of nastiness. As I say,
I said that once that was the first time. Yeah. What what is comment here on YouTube? Uh he said he
learned 24 years ago from a company called Southern Maryland tour company
and the guys uh that taught him were from the union back in the60s. They they
taught them everything, right? But still training is great and that's what
everyone needs to realize is that there's so much going on with technology changes and stuff that
you have to keep up. Well, you can you can um that's your bottom dollar
that I mean not to just think in the claims world, but also think about how you sell
yourself. We've talked about that a lot. You know, being properly trained, having a VTI and being able to show your um,
you know, your VTI profile to a customer, show and prove that you have
put in the effort to be educated and that you actually know what you're talking about. There's going to be a lot
of of respect you get from that when you are trying to sell yourself. Um, so you
know, there's a lot of benefit to it. We talk about it all the time. So you can watch a thousand episodes. Uh, maybe not
quite that, but you can watch a bunch of episodes that we're talking a few hundred episodes.
Yeah. Where we talk about leveraging your your education, leveraging your reputation.
uh we give you that possibility at trade tab through the VTI but you also even if
you were not having the certifications and and proof of it in another manner.
Maybe you got pictures of your certifications or whatever. Any of that works. It's just we we created the VTI
to make it a lot easier and to carry your reputation and your credentials in
your pocket. That being said, it does not
it there is no there's no world in which being educated
properly educated in your field is a bad thing.
Never, right? Never, brother. Like, you could be educated in the wrong field. Like, you could have got a, you
know, I don't know, a liberal arts degree and you're a flooring guy and that doesn't matter. Let's see if this sounds uh if this makes sense to people.
I don't want that mechanic touching my truck because that dude knows way too much. I just don't want him touching my truck.
Yeah, he's factory certified and ASSE certified. Give me that shade tree guy.
Yeah, right. You know where those conversations come in is where there you start talking about, man, that dude is expensive, but
I know it's going to be done right. Mhm. Well, and imagine the same conversation
at your at your dealership. Does do the guy just get with a an old
an old mechanic that worked on, you know, vehicles his whole life? That's the best
guy to learn from because of technology and the way cars are. Uh, you know,
they've obviously they're like driving computers now. Yeah,
you have to stay up to date. The same applies in our industry from moisture to
adhesive technologies to the way the products actually go together. You know, believe it or not, not all locking uh or
floating uh plank floors. I'll say it that to kind of broaden the the scope to
all of them. Not all of them do you just lay together and smack a a block to get
them to click. I mean, there's different methods for for all of these products. And understanding
um how each product goes together starts with having a good foundational
knowledge of how to install flooring, right? And there's four discip there's four
major disciplines really. There's kind of five. Epoxy flooring being the fifth, but you got ceramic tile, all of them.
Like there's so many different variations just there. Think of the the,
you know, big influx of these large panels of what they call uh gauged
porcelain panels, all of that stuff, you know. Romero says, "I've already signed up and
have my VTI. I would encourage everyone to create a profile. It also looks very cool and professional and you can uh use
it as a contact card. I'm getting some business cards with my VTR." That that
that a boy. That's my man. Right. And then Rollins says that uh
when he started there was guys started back in the 40s, 50s and 60s and that's probably about halfway through his
career then uh if he was still doing new products that way just the issues he would have
got to keep on learning. And then Walter is touching on sorry uh
no you're good when you were talking about inspectors and he says the vast majority of the inspection organizations
have conflicts of interest with manufacturers and then he elaborates and says that uh many industry conferences
and trainings are hosted and or presented by manufacturers
which yeah I think that uh you know manufacturing has and manufacturers have
their place to support the conferences and the conventions and those things. Uh
but them being the place to hire, uh it's a great thing for the inspector
world because literally um on a lot of jobs, if the installer or the flooring
company feels they did it correctly, they get a judgment against them or a claim against them, we're going to go
hire another a different inspector to come in and really look at it from our side.
And the inspection world gets two two uh paid inspections for the same
project essentially and and each one of them could say totally different things.
Well, the templates that are followed are are are provided by the manufacturer themselves, right? So there's there's no
like single source of truth per se that is submitted by an inspection group to a
manufacturer. the manufacturer has their their order of operations that they want
things noted. So that's what makes it hard. Um
it's kind of it's bias but appears nbias but it's still pretty biased.
Well, it's hard for it not to be. You know, as they say, follow the money, right? I know that um you guys do do you
have a any of those stories where you had a claim go against you and then you
countered it with someone else and they do was threatening threatened them that we would call our own inspector and
then they said, "Okay, never mind." Yeah. I uh I literally had one manufacturer
uh shall go unnamed, but the it was a broad loom job and the this has been a
decade plus ago, but it was it was a big one. Uh 20 something 2,800 yards or
something like that. And within 6 months there was like a walking path through
the through the facility and the all the fibers had crushed
and um so that was the main claim. The manufacturer sent out an inspector.
They actually ended up sending two and they both found that there was not
sufficient seam sale. Um, and I was like, well,
and so they they failed the claim. We were like, hey, this isn't a claim about
the freaking seams failing. They're fine. Yeah, there's a few phrase
here and there. It was an office building, so a lot of a realtor's office
building at that. So, tons of 10 by10 rooms all the way around and in the center and down hallways. And so, there
were seams everywhere. I was like, those can be fixed, but
those being fixed or repaired have zero impact because if they do get fixed or
repaired, this is the claim. Why is it that I can stick a straight edge across here and see light in the center of the
hallway is the claim. That is the problem. I ended up having to hire my
own inspector to come out and do it. Then he went back, requested
um information from the manufacturer. Come to find out it was overheated and it it kind of acted like your your uh
grill brush when you you bend brass, you know,
it doesn't rebound and that's in that ends up what the problem was and they ended up, you know,
replacing it. Um, but that was six months and three inspectors later.
Yeah. By that time, nobody looks good. My my point to all that is
had like they were really struggling to find something wrong with the installation.
Trial notches were good. The right glue was used. All of this uh
they had to go all the way to find a fray or so, you know, a few frays in 2,800 yards and about 120 offices.
uh and say, "Well, they didn't use sufficient uh seam."
Yeah. So, Kelly on Instagram, Kelly Cassidy, says that kind of what you're
talking about here with this issue, but it's collaboration from design to install that matters. Very early on in
the process makes an overall good install, right? So, if they would have
factored that light into the design or blocked that light rather, right? then
and then and even though like in my case it would have been it you know you could just see
it. Um I just could physically take a straight edge and show that the it was
just completely crushed in the traffic areas. She her point is very well taken. I
mean, design and installation working together on projects, it
Oh, yeah. It always turns out better if the designer is willing to work with the installer and the installers willing to
work with the designer to to create the desired outcome.
She also said that she sold a line that had no claims. It was a real quick way
for her to learn that they just didn't cover any claims.
So, we'll do a couple more of these, right? Cuz was replying to to Walter and
he said, "Wouldn't those be the best ones to showcase their product?" Meaning, the manufacturers getting
involved and showing people how to install, right? That way, they can teach you how to install it. He says as an
installer, he likes for each manufacturer to teach him how their product is built and how it should be
installed. He says as far as an inspector, he feels that they should go through a third party
uh that isn't manufacturer related, right? Such as CFI.
And then Walter says it's logical for manufacturers to be involved in the installation industry but not be
involved with the inspection training and agree a third party.
I approve of that statement. I think they should be involved in the training
and not in the inspection from that accord. It would be
nice if they sent it well somewhat like trade tap works not
to you know but like if you sent it to a network of inspectors and the inspector
to inspect this had to have these credentials had to be manufact trained
on their product had to you know have all these different types of credentials to do that particular inspection then it
might narrow down because I know that one Another thing that I've seen is that
there's inspectors that are have strong suits and not so strong suits and when
that freaking uh claim goes and
they just give it to whoever is available. Sometimes you just don't get an inspector that even knows what they're
talking about on that particular type of flooring, right? And then, you know, it would be
nice for uh some manufacturers not to be involved, but at the same time, some of
these different flooring types don't really have a standard that people have to follow. And that's kind of what we're
dealing with too, right? It's like specifically sheet vinyl is there.
There's no set standard where it's just follow
these instructions. Yeah. There's too many variables.
like follow follow what is failing like you you had to say something about that carpet job right they they went in there
to inspect one aspect of it but then couldn't find what the manufacturer
wanted to find so they looked somewhere else and said well they did this wrong too um and that's or
it was like they completely ignored what the claim was for and they were like well they didn't seem
sill it correctly and I I don't even like accept that as
true, but I'm just saying that that is what they went to when the
claim was the carpet is crushing
and the owner is not happy that they bought a, you know, large carpet order,
got it installed, and it looked great for a few months. And then then one uh the second inspector even
came out and uh noted um something to do with uh maintenance.
And I know this guy and I I'll leave him out of it, but he uh I knew this inspector
and uh the owner had never cleaned it. They hadn't cleaned it yet. It was only six months.
They're like, "We haven't cleaned it." So, you can't say we put something in this that's making it matt down.
You just stick to itself. That's kind of what they were trying to imply was that there
was a detergent left in the carpet that made it stick to itself and made it do
that, but they had never cleaned it. It wasn't even dirty.
So, kind of trying to tie this into uh into the topic here, like does that mean
that when when a client needs a little bit of education, they should be seeking mentorship outside of a salesperson
maybe to kind of lead them in the direction they need to go and and what to look for, or is that overkill? Is
that something that not everyone's going to do? And I'm saying this on a commercial or a commercial aspect. you
know, residential, you kind of already do that as you're walking through anyway, but on a large project like
that, you know, 2,000 plus yards, were they misguided or was it just
misdirection after the product failed? Right? Like where does the the
leadership mentorship come in and where does everyone tie all this together for opinions versus a mentor? Well, I I'll
tell you where it comes in at least on that particular project and where I think the mentorship happened is I had a
good friend of mine who uh does inspections out of Kansas City and he
has worked for all the major meals. He knows the pre I mean like he's got the president's numbers,
cell phone numbers kind of guy. He was he was the guy I turned to. His
name is John Wake. Red floor care out of Kansas City and he was my mentor
through that whole process and how to deal with it. It was our first major claim as a company after 10 years of
business and you know so again it's just being
involved knowing people is from being involved in
the industry that that almost will always lead to training. And I think
that there's so many installers that just kind of work in their little uh silo in the city or whatever that they
work in and that's that. And they don't ever get outside. They don't, you know,
one of the things that like Rollin and Kevin and these guys do, they have local chapters for CFI stuff like that.
And that's a great way to have, you know,
some I'm sure some of those guys uh help each other out. Uh well, I know it just
from stories I've heard, you know. So, mentors,
yes. Uh like
industry compadres is probably a better way to put it, you know.
I think you can find mentorship in in anyone, right? All you have to do is be
able to to listen. They don't have to be the CEOs and stuff
of the world. There's other people that you can look at for mentorship. And it's just uh when you are looking for that
mentorship, it's being able to just like we talk about on here with education, it's being open to learning and knowing
that you're not always right. Yeah, that's where you get like Jorge and CEOs
have your number, dude. You know the the and the whole
mentor thing too, like every you can learn, like you said, you can
learn from everyone, right, Daniel? And a mentor doesn't have to be someone who's telling you what you should be doing and and shouldn't be doing. It's
just someone you can learn from. It's someone who helps you
shed a light on an issue or someone who helps you figure it out. Someone who's just there to listen until you figure it
out. Um, someone who's there to uh basically listen to your about
and just take and help you. I I'll tell you here. We have a good
example on a on a weekly follower and Jose Romero. Look what he's done. He he
that type that's kind of mentorship. He's got his guys trained. He's gotten
them certified. Like he's taking it to the next level on each thing. A mentor
the What's the difference? Let's identify that. What's the difference between somebody giving you their
opinion and a mentor? Well, to me at least, and I'd love your guys's input on
this, um, Ron Burgundy, um, Ronaldo Burgundy,
the difference to me is their intent. Are they there to act? Is there is their
point of view that they're sharing with you, the difference between an opinion and a mentor, is their intent? Are they
wanting to help you, help you get better, help you through a problem, help
you understand what you may have done wrong, or help you understand where you can um get better? Or are they there
just to puke their opinions on you and not consider whether or not it's there
to help you? I see it all over the the social media sites, people's opinions.
They just puke them on you. That's my opinion.
That's my opinion of mentorships. Yeah. I mean, there's that's pretty me, too.
But then there's people that don't even know their mentors and just
talk to people and you you figure out years later like, dang, he was giving me a lot of good advice. So, guess he was
kind of that mentor to me, right? You know, I I think um
people like that, you don't know that you're you're mentoring people. It's just I'm not looking for anyone to agree
with me. I'm just looking for some information that could help me out. Um right,
you can just be blunt, straight up, and then that's the only conversation we have for a year. But if what you said
sticks and I find resolve in in in my search through the words that and
information you provided, then hey, guess what? You mentored me through that regardless of the outcome. But if all
you're going to tell me is everything that I should have done and try to beat me up because it's not what
you would have done, the those are the opinions I could care less for.
Yeah. Doyle says here that uh a mentor is one that doesn't just give instructions for your daily routine as a
leader, but someone that will coach you up to do their job basically. Um and we
talk about this too. It's that that good leaders create other leaders, right? And
then hopefully those leaders go on to do the same thing. And that's really
what we're talking about today is that full circle type of stuff. It's let's let's not gatekeep anything. Let's make
sure that that next person isn't going to run into those same mistakes as you. Um the whole reason we started this
podcast, right, is because hey, we've been through a lot of stuff. Let's make sure that other people aren't going to
do the same thing. Yeah. In my opinion, we did a lot of things the hard way. It's not even
opinion anymore. It's fact. Well, you know, one of the things that
come to mind is uh when you when you're looking at your
body of work, and forgive me, my I probably shouldn't have went and read
Facebook stuff before this, but uh you know, these guys that just talk
like they are so great. and then in the same breath we'll like
kind of dog on training and in and
certifications. Um, I think that one of the real
measurements of how good of an installer is you are is how many good installers like high quality have you produced
because of you, you know, because of your time in installation?
you know, have you produced anybody through your company or through your crew that has come up and ended up being
a really awesome installer? Like that is that is a pretty good measurement.
Yeah. Just just created a bunch of people with opinions.
Well, I know that I know better than that. Yeah. Horge says the main thing is making conne connections and networking
with those connections asking questions. If you don't involve yourself, no one's going to know who you are or what you
do. And then Ran says to him, true mentors are also being mentored
themselves. Yeah, I think we've, you know, we've talked about that a lot like
being consistent learners and keeping your, you know, your mind open to to
learning new things, then you can teach others. And Rand, you know, he in this
thread he's in his comments, he he pointed that out. One of the things he said was that he if he did it the same
today as he did back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, he'd have tons of failures. I mean,
the the methods are different, the adhesives are different, the the uh the
trial sizes are different. I all of that stuff. So, if he was not a true learner
being mentored himself, he wouldn't be able to teach other people. and Rollins one of those guys that turn out good
installers. You know, he's trained a bunch. Of course, by his very nature of being a trainer, he's trained a bunch.
But, um, I think there's a lot to be said for us who
work with other installers with the intent of making them better, whether it's hand skills. I do a lot of
mentoring with our crews on how to improve their business,
set themselves up properly. Um, you know, there's there's a lot to
being a sub h having a a business that your primary service is installation of
flooring. So, you can be a mentor in many different ways
and sometimes those mentors will become your friends.
You're lucky. if we're so lucky. So, we don't need
more opinions because opinions is uh one other thing I I I've seen a few other
comments on here, but I I think also opinions are kind of self-drived. You want to get something you want your your
your opinion or your point of view to be
known by everybody as opposed to actually mentoring uh and trying to help
the other people get through that. a particular scenario, whatever it is, whether it's an install deal, um you
know, just a tough a tough project, how to hang in there. Sometimes we've had
those where you're like, man, I don't even want to do this thing anymore. But you hang in there, right? Like
if if you've never felt that way, you've never been a business owner.
Yeah. there. I I'm sure that's preaching to the choir of jobs you're like, well,
we had a whole podcast on the ones you wish you walked away from. But, you know, there's also the ones that you're
like, eh, it's not a bad job, but I'm just over it. Sometimes you're just over it. What was the meme I just seen the other
day? Um, I got sick of punching the clock. So, I decided to become a a business owner. So, that way I can leave
work and make my schedule however I want. But then when I was done, go back and finish my 120 hour week.
Yeah. Yeah. So, Walter says that learning is ongoing and having a network of good colleagues
is critical critical for problem solving when running into problems with installs. 100%. We talk about that all
the time about how we have that network to call. I've called Paul. He's called me. I've called Jorge,
you know. Yeah. I got, you know, one of the guys that locally
that we bounce back and forth off of is Puit. You know, he's he's here local. Sometimes he'll have a a problem, reach
out to me. Sometimes I have a problem. I'm like, "Hey, man. What do you do in this scenario?" And I'm I'm, you know,
pretty trans transparent to the fact that I'm not like a carpet guru. So when some of
these carpet issues with certain types of carpets come up, he's one of my go-tos, you know, one up and it's just
nice to have those people. I would have never you a lot of these uh resources
are just a product of being it's kind of like going to college uh and you don't
have to go to college for flooring. You should get trained and certified though. But when you go to college, a lot of
those friendships and people you meet in college are lifelong friends. I mean, how how many times you heard, "Yeah, I
went to college with him and they started a business together or he's a guy that they, you know, invests his money or that
guy's the guy that, you know, whatever." Those those relationships do last. And
we're not on here just saying, "Hey, go to training for the relationships." It's just a good byproduct of of being in an
environment where education is um acknowledged as valuable and and you
know you it's just a good byproduct of that of other people who look at education as
necessary and uh I'm the words kind of skipping me skipping my mind but where
they see it as valuable and needed necessary and it's just a byproduct of being in that entire environment, being
around people who believe that way. And I talked to one of our guys earlier this week about that too about um he
said that he's been listening to the podcast and you know when we talk about
owning a a job and not a business and I said yeah and one thing that that keeps
people that way is all these guys that are just like I don't want to work with
no one. I just want to do everything myself. That way I know it's done right. But that's missing
key parts of what what you need in order to grow and not only grow yourself and
it's growing other people too. There is an advertisement going around social media right now where it says own
your own flooring business and they're just they're missing
I guess in my opinion they're missing a lot. I haven't really dug into it and
don't really know what they have to offer, but I know that they're they're highlighting the things to attract someone. They're
not really highlighting a process or what do they offer to make sure that you're successful besides we can send
you leads. Jorge may has a little bit longer
uh comment here. He says, "I can honestly say that the community that
does surging and binding of rugs is super tight and everyone passes over better ways of building rugs. Tips on
surging, especially wide binding. We tend to communicate with each other
on a weekly. Also, the NTCACTI peeps,
tile peeps also tend to help each other uh and we ask help whenever possible.
Everyone is always helpful if you talk to the right heads that are open-minded. All of them closed-minded peeps in the
that in that same realm I know struggle because they just want to be
hard-headed. That's the guys that I was talking about on Facebook. Yeah. essentially like
these I don't understand it but
it there's something to the fact that like I believe CFI is the same way the
NTCA people are the same way. You don't get exposed to that if you are just in
your silo and you don't want to go out and get trained because you for some
reason believe that you already know everything. Um, so you know, I was
talking to Kevin earlier this week and you know, I know that I think he even
last week he he commented on the podcast about, you know,
a particular group he went to see and they were like, "Nah,
no. I I know better than you." I just that that doesn't work in almost
any other industry. We use mechanics a lot just because you know there's you can be factory certified and BSC
certified you can be get different uh training certifications for different
components of different cars. Um, so there's a lot of parallels there, but
could you imagine like the same things? My cousin is a factory.
He's uh he runs one of the Ford uh like automotive dealer uh dealership, you
know, automotive shops. Uh and he's been factory chained by Ford Caterpillar
because he's had a pretty long career. uh he's ASC all this man
if somebody went up ah to him he'd be like well you don't work you don't need to be
in this industry then like if you don't want to learn go find a a deal the the only diff the
big difference is you really got to have a shop so there is at least a little
barrier of entry for people to take their cars to uh you do a shade tree
mechanic as we call them and you know pull up under the shade tree and they got the cherry picker hanging from a
branch. But the fact is is that if you're you're either wanting to improve
and that's how he judges his employees or those who want to improve and those are the ones that he invests back into.
And I I think that, you know, people like to invest in people where their
investment is going to pay off. Whether it's investment in your time, your money, or other resources, if that other
person is open-minded, like Jorge just said, you're more apt to pour into them.
He also says, "Would I would I let Kevin hands on my rug?" Maybe,
but he would definitely listen to his knowledge on adhesives. So, and it's not only, you know, you're
you're talking mechanics, right? And um locally here
driving down. Yeah. Yesterday um I seen a billboard. It was like
prepare for your next promotion and it was one of the colleges for a master's
degree. So, it's that's the kind of mindset we need to start looking at is
if I want to move up, how am I going to get trained to do that? Not just I've been in it for 15 years, I think I
should be there. It's well, what did you learn in those 15 years?
Yeah. And it's who I think who you learned it from is
equally uh important. It is. and right h how much of that 15
years have you retained and how much have you grown in the 15 years with the products that you're installing that you
know about um you got to be open to all of that too. Um and that that's part of
it's part of why uh Hard will listen to him and but maybe not let him
stitch his rug. Right. Well, it's it's it's it's bringing up
the fact that there are so many different elements to and different ways. If you're an installer out there
looking at this industry, there are multiple different outlets. Jorge did a
great job of carving out a niche. And there's plenty, you know, he has a group of guys that he knows that that's their
thing, right? binding, surging, putting rugs
together, doing stairways, you know, that kind of stuff. I'm pretty
sure he still installs carpet as, you know, um, but that's his niche.
Kevin and other people have stronger
suits in other things and maybe just as strong in some of those things, but the
point is there's a lot of different categories in which you can apply skill
to, right? Jamie says that his goal is to bring every flooring technician that works for his company
to be a better flooring technician. They send their guys out to trainings and pay for their time in classes. Um he right
now he needs a bigger warehouse, but once he has that he's hoping to his goal is to have a training facility that can
be used for classes um like for CFI.
That's great, man. Great goals, brother. Right.
Kendall saying that he uh was dealing with a customer that was
BSing the the the store, so they had to come look at it. And he just had to tell
his guys the next client would be cool, man. Just uh sometimes you got to deal with it.
Kevin Kevin and Jorge going back and forth, but
Kevin says the best students are the ones that have skin in the game.
Yeah. Well, I I'm assuming he means by they're in
the game, you know, they're doing the thing. And
yeah, I couldn't agree more. And then so
Kevin tells Hohead that uh looks like they're going to have a showdown at convention. Woo.
It's going to be fun. Going to be another competition. Yeah. Competition before the competition.
So, the Go ahead, Jose. No, I was looking there was a comment earlier that that data popped up for a
second and it went away. I don't remember which one it was. Um, but I
don't know. I might have read it wrong, too. But you guys go ahead. I'll try to look for it on there.
Well, there was one that I Walter had said that Yeah, just in the ASMF uh 06 resilient
flooring technical committee, there are numerous changes to standards every year. The industry is always learning
and always evolving. And I'm on the committee, so I'm voting
all the time, right? And it's sometimes it's nothing huge. It's changing verbiage so that way it's better
understood but still it's little changes. Many small time make big time, right? Well, and those many small time each one
it does make big time. It can make big time mistakes if you don't catch those little small time each time. You know,
every all these little things can they often
not just in flooring but failures in general. Um
they're a series of of bad decisions that end up that floor not not
performing right or failing alto together. So
Kevin says that there's a a sewing competition happening at convention. be there or be squared.
Kendall says he's never been to Vegas for the competition. He'll have to come watch, but this convention is actually
uh in Chattanooga Synergy.
Synergy uh CFI convention to ties too though in Vegas.
Yeah, that could be fun. I've watched some of the there is a hand
sewing competition like you never clicked on it. Ah,
is this like legit scheduled thing or is this happening now because of Yeah. Is this is this breaking news?
Yeah. The fact is is that um and I think what the title is intended to say is
like teach, you know, don't berate, don't just put down other people's work.
Like teach other people how to be better. And you would be surprised how many people really need mentorship. If
you think you're in a position to be a mentor, reach that hand out, help another
person. That's one of the things in flooring that, you know, and CFI's displayed it over the years when, you
know, an installer's having an issue um and they help them through it and it could be a life issue, nothing to do
with flooring and uh you know, so just being involved can go a long way.
When in Chattanooga, so November 10th through the 12th.
Actually, I'm just going to comment the the link right to your comment. How
about that? You said till the 12th.
Wednesday evening. Oh, I'm busy on Wednesday evening. Sorry, guys.
Yeah, check uh go to that link there, the CFI installer link, and uh
check out convention. I'd love to see some some of the people that uh are on
the, you know, podcast get on there and or get on there and go to convention.
So, we can't multitask. That's for sure. Hold on, let me type. Yeah, the link is on Facebook in the
comments. I don't know if I did a QR code for that or not.
I did not. So, go check it out, guys. Come see us at convention where we're
going to be shooting, I'm sure. As usual, we don't have all the run a show,
as they call it. uh set up. But uh go check it out. Come see us at convention.
That would be a blast. That being said, with
this particular topic, I believe that mentorship is teaching. So go teach
somebody, get involved. I know that there's going to be a huge need for new
teachers coming up. And so keep that in mind. there's going to be a a big need
for for new people to come in and be uh trainers. You can ask Ran about that.
You can ask uh you know anybody who's in training uh in the training uh side of
the world that there needs to be more because you would think that the demand is coming. a
million trainers out there, but the guys that are doing it are spread thin and
aging out, getting there. So, get involved. That
that could be uh you know, another aspect of your career is being a trainer. I know that all the trainers in
the industry that I know are incredibly proud and and happy that they are
trainers. There's a level of passion involved into doing that, into spreading and sharing
knowledge that one has with more than one person. Yeah. You love what you do. You wear it. You
teach it. You live it. You share it. You show it. It's all you can do to to do whatever
you can to pass it on. Yeah. That that goes with another comment earlier about teaching other,
you know, passing on. One of the one of the things that back in the day
installers uh I heard a lot of was like, "Well, I don't want to train my replacement."
Well, you're not that's that's a really bad mindset to uh look at things. So,
yeah, I agree. Kevin says need students just as much as need trainers. This is true. Um there's
you know, we're on here every week talking about it, but depending on what survey or study you read, you know,
there's 170,000ish in installers.
The metrics from trade tap is that
about 85% of installers are not trained. There are
installers that have not been industry trained. So, you know, there's the
opportunity for that is is pretty big. uh trade is working on and working with
some some of the uh training organizations to increase the awareness around their trainings and
starting at the college with what the FCEF is doing what Mark Farnsworth is doing with colleges that is one of the
keys I think it's not there's no single key
right there's no not one single you know uh code that fixes everything But it is
a piece of it is having exposing the the youth to uh the opportunities out there.
I know aft also uh did some some trainings with the local college here in
Witchah. like those programs I think are necessary to at least expose the the
kids and you start them with an education and you have them
mature into uh even well if they start there they're more
apt to understand the need and follow down the education and training line
working on And that that's what happens with the installers that don't want to do it to
begin with. They end up going to a training and then they're like, "Man, why was I why did I not do this sooner?"
Yeah. I wish some of those guys would just give it a shot, you know, just go give it a shot.
Rollins say he has his VTI and he's still working on making it better. And Walter says that there's more good work
than good installers and inspectors, so you can't out train the demand. That is true.
Good way to end it right there. All right, guys. Well, we have burned through the hour aotted for the huddle
on Tuesday. So, thanks everybody for all your comments. It was very active today. Sorry if we didn't get to all of them,
but uh we certainly appreciate everything that everyone's doing uh to
support us here at the huddle. And we will be at convention, we'll be at Ty,
so come see us there. Uh if you click on that QR code, you can start your profile
uh with Trade Tap on the VTI network and uh yeah, let's let's keep the the
environment of education and training alive. Uh invigorate your friends and
family like the the trades are are coming back. We've talked about it a lot
and uh I really believe we're right at the cusp of all that. So, thank you everybody for joining us this week. If
you catch us on YouTube, give us a like and subscribe on there. Follow us on all our social channels and share our
content. It is the one thing that we ask of you. We don't charge or get get uh
you know a ton of sponsors or long things. We have a few sponsors. We're really supported by you guys uh helping
with the awareness. So, share our stuff. We certainly appreciate those who do. And until next week, we're out. See you.
Thank you everyone.
