The Huddle - Episode 204. The Profit Leaks Nobody Talks About
Most business owners know exactly where their revenue is coming from. The harder question is, do you know where your profit is going?
This week on The Huddle, Daniel and Jose dig into the hidden issues that slowly drain profitability from flooring businesses. Rarely is it one catastrophic mistake. More often, it's a collection of small inefficiencies that compound over time. A callback here. Material waste there. Poor communication. Underbidding. Disorganized processes. None of them seem significant on their own until you realize how much they're costing you over the course of a year.
The conversation focuses on identifying those leaks before they become habits and understanding why profitability isn't always about generating more work. Sometimes the biggest opportunity is improving the work you're already doing. If you've ever looked at a full schedule and wondered why the numbers don't reflect the effort, this episode is worth a listen.
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Yo, what's up everyone and thanks for joining us again on the huddle. Was it your weekly playbook? Your weekly
playbook to find success in the flooring industry. And then Paul's got his own thing that
he says, but we just don't want anyone to fail, man. So, we do our best to talk
about the issues, potential issues, and bring you education and in hopes that you guys return the
favor and educate us as well. We're not always right. We don't claim to be.
So, Daniel's setting up, but uh today's episode is about uh
what makes a client high risk and how to find them, how to spot them.
um before you do the job because before you do the job, right? Uh all of us have uh had that job where
it made us look at what do we got to do different? Where do we have to be better and
how do we minimize the risk of attracting that type of clientele?
Good luck when you guys figure it all out. I can tell you that. But,
uh, I think that, uh, I don't think Paul's going to be on here today, right, Daniel? No.
Hanging out with the grandb babies. Yeah, with the grandb babies. That's right. So, uh, we're going to have to go
by what Daniel and I have experienced and maybe we get a little bit of help from the audience as well.
I'm sure Rod has some insight. He's been in it for a while. Yeah. and and you can separate this
thing into two different it can be all over the board but commercial versus residential, right? Um
two different walks of life, two different sets of expectations, uh two different uh types of end user. Um
one you answer directly to the homeowner, the other uh you you have a chain of command, right? And uh bound by
contracts on both sides. Hopefully there's a contract involved. Um,
but anyway, you know what? I'm just going to get to it and start talking about it. The, and this is going to
sound bad, and and I don't mean to scare any anybody away, but
you can almost bank on a family member or a friend being the most high risk
because their level of expectations are going to be through the roof. And that's because they
they know what you do. They know what you're capable of, right? And the other reason I say high risk is
we've always done our best to give the best pricing that we can give for our time. Um,
and sometimes that means taking away from our our our bottom dollar, our margins, our percentages. We sacrifice
on our end to help family and friends. And with that sacrifice,
um, we're taking we're get getting rid of our cushion that helps, uh, soften the
blow to some of the infor scenes. Um, just just punchless, right? Uh, Jimmy
says, "What's up on Instagram, too, by the way?" But it's like that they don't realize
that you do. You're giving up a lot when cuz
typically they're asking for a deal anyways, right? Let me get that that family deal, that family discount.
Yeah. And then you give it to them and then it's all always something.
They just expect you to take care of of things, right? And I if I said that I
wasn't guilty of that at some point, I'd be lying. But it's been a very long time since I I've uh
required or set some kind of level of expectation through family or friend. Now, if I hire
a family or friend, I hire them and I don't haggle. I don't wheel a deal. I don't barter.
The cost is the cost and I'm willing to absorb it. If it's too much, I just say, "Hey, that's out of my budget."
Um, I don't try to make them backpedal on their pricing at all. I just assume
that as family and friends, they're giving me the best price they possibly can. Uh, so that way they can still
maintain some kind of profit. You know, they have a family. Um, and or employees
that they have to take care of as well. And I get it. I understand. So, I don't ever ask. Um, and if I have, and I do I
do my best not to ask, but if I have, I'm sorry, guys. Not my intention to to beat you up on pricing. Um,
but Rod says that his his mom was one of the toughest to satisfy. Oh, yeah, for sure.
Uh, you know, you always want to do the best possible project or job or or install
for for family and friends, right? Because not only do they have to look at it every day, but you're going to see them more often, right? So chances of
them bringing something up or you going to their house and seeing something you don't like, it's like, ah,
should have done something different there. Yeah. But I've I think we've also been in the spot, too, where it's like you go
over there and it's like, I'm just going to take care of that real quick. Like it bothers you, right? They never even said
anything about it. They didn't notice, but sometimes it's like that, too. Yeah. Free is a
free is the tough one to swallow. I don't mind bartering. Like, you know,
if the barter ever comes up, I don't mind doing that. You know, trade service for service. Um, some people have some
things that they do in the trades or, you know, sometimes I just want to learn something new. Yeah, I'll come and help
you. If you teach me, you know, XYZ, I I'll help you out. No problem. Or go
hang out. Throw something on the grill. Let's fix something. It doesn't always have to be floors. Could just be
somebody helping. Um, this uh the topic today is is very
broad, right? Like almost every topic that we have, right? We can go in a lot of different directions. Uh being that
we're primarily commercial and and that's where we kind of grew up as in the commercial world.
Uh it's hard because you it's hard to to spot them
because you want every client to um to to be a good client. You it's hard to
spot because everybody walks the same walk talks the same talk. Um, if you're working for a flooring store or if
you're working for a general contractor, um, I I will say
the days of a a man's word and an agreement and a
handshake, th those are no longer in play. Um,
it sucks to say it like that, but even even if you're working with someone that you worked with 25 years ago, they work
for someone now who requires a bunch of contracts and signatures and agreements and
you don't really find the high risk until until it's there. It's like the insurance, right? You don't you don't
need it until you need it. You don't realize it until it's there already. Jimmy says that designers are
his favorite clients, but the last two years he cut ties with two of them because they because uh couldn't meet
expectations selling materials that could achieve what they anticipated. He
just said it wasn't a good fit and and moved on. And I think that's probably the the best bet, right? Sometimes you
just got to, hey, I don't think we're a good fit. You know what? And he just kind of hit
that one right on the head there, too. And and and that's if you're working with designers or you're working with a salesperson who sets an expectation
that's unreachable or gives information that you wouldn't give
as an installer, right? And and perhaps the client
um for for for a top tier when when they're picking something that's down
here, right? Um I I think that that is a that's a red flag right there to me. uh
someone who who doesn't necessarily know the process, I would say, but if you're
working with them for a while and and they're adapting to what what you've done and they they know what you're
capable of doing and what the material limitations are and then it does get better. So,
I guess that that goes back to the you don't know the high risk until it hits, right? You got to give somebody a chance
the way they give you a chance. Um, I'm sure that there's been multiple
companies that gave us a chance and viewed us as a high
risk um at some point, but um
we're very open and we like to communicate uh probably a little too much on my end,
but I don't want to be viewed as a high risk. I want to be viewed as an asset um
to those clients that are potentially high risk. Uh it doesn't always work out that way,
but we do our best to do that, right? Rod says that on the commercial side, he thoroughly checks
uh customers paying habits and financial history. And I mean, you should especially on the commercial side
because they check your financial history, too, to make sure you're strong enough to uh even do that project. And I
was just talking about this with someone the other day and that that's what they were they were like, "Man, we we're
basically just banks for these general contractors. They use us to to float the
entire project, right? They're using every um
subcontractor to float their part when they really don't necessarily have to come out of
pocket for anything right away. you know that and that's the benefit of
being the person at the the top of that totem pole helping create the contracts
is you can write that in there. Um that that's that's how construction is.
And I think um you know to combat that early on when we were starting to absorb a lot more on the financial portion we
did write in our contract that we would need some sort of payment prior to right we didn't have
uh we didn't have the the ability to absorb and float a lot of uh a lot of
money out there for for long periods of time. But
we we found that being open and honest about that um helped us out a ton.
And then on the flip side, when people look at it that way, they can also say that then they can view us as a risk,
right? Because yeah, then our financials aren't strong enough to support that project.
Rod said that bonding can offer some security.
Yeah, Kim. For whom though? For who? We we can we should probably have an
entire episode just on bonding. Yeah, we probably should because some of it is still the the progression of the
bonding and all that and and who it protects and how it protects and what it evolves into is can get confusing at
times, too. But I think I I watched a video the
other day and this guy was like
he compared him to a doctor, right? He said, "Construction is the only place you'll have this when a when a client
comes up to you and be like, "Hey, uh, can you like lower your price if we help you out?
Like if I come in and I'll do all the waterproofing, I'll get it up to a certain point." then all you got to do
is come in and slap everything in and stuff like that. He said, "You don't go to a doctor and be like, "Hey, I'll
handle all the sterilization. I'll I'll bring all the scalpels and stuff. Can you guys just give me a
discount if I do that?" Right? And I think that's kind of one of those red flags when clients are
are looking at you like that where it's like, "No, man. It's
and I think we we've all been through it where it's like you you find someone that you're like, "Okay, we'll we'll
help you out a little bit." And then what ends up happening is you end up with way more work than if you would
have just did everything yourself. Yeah. Yeah. You just Nobody
I say no to that because we we've said yes to that and it hasn't worked out, right? Because nobody's going to get it ready the way you are. No one's going to
use um the uh high-end material or or
any of the prep material that you're going to use. They're going to they don't know. They don't know, right?
They're just going to go run to big box store and buy whatever is on sale. Um
not knowing that there's a a shelf life, not knowing how to mix it, how not to
mix it. Um it's
walk away. walk away when you have a chance. Um, however, that is a good way to approach a family or a friend, right?
That that's a good way because then then they're if they're handy and you
trust them, they're able to to help out a little bit. I get it. But if you if they're a family friend, you know, if
they're handy enough to do it or not. Like, no, bro. No. No. That's not what we do.
That's the thing, right? It's um What's up, Hohead? And before I go on, you
know, Rod does say that it it bonding provides security for the client, but
the bonding company holds most of the risk.
But so even on some of these projects that we've been on, right, um
it's like you go in there and these guys are like, "Oh yeah, I'm I'm really good. I'm the best over here. And then you go
you follow behind them. It's like some of these flooring contractors will try and stack people like they'll go in
front of you and do the prep and all this stuff. And for the longest time, you know, we've always been like, "No,
it's that's not what's going to happen." Like if I'm going to be touching it, I want to do the prep. And then one of
these last projects that we did when we were helping someone out, it was like that. And then you go through there and
I can scratch the you know, the patch off with my
fingernail. And it's like they get they get mad. It's like, why you guys have to do so much prep? And it's like because
things weren't done right the first time. Yeah.
That's uh it's, you know, and there's companies out there too that that um that's how they
make a living. They go in and they do the prep in front of you. And you know, I will say that uh um I know of one that
does a really good job. Um it when I say it does a good job, and I know it's the
feedback that I'm getting from everyone that they do the work for, and they're constantly busy and and they're innovators in the industry, too, right?
And and if we ever have issues, I know that I would call them for information or
advice on what products because I know that they work with everything. Um
what what are you what are you coming across D? Let's go like recently like in the in the last year, right? Or two
years of what we've been doing um for some of these clients, what has been
I don't want to say high risk, right? But what has cost more more dollars and cents at the end of the day that that we
potentially eat versus um uh making on
some of the projects? changes the changes
all the changes before anything you get get anything signed where it's like you
know you'll be helping them and then sometimes they'll be like yeah I don't have anyone else quoting it and then you
get everything ready and then uh submit everything and they're like well you're higher than this person and it's like
well you told me I was the only one for one
then for two is it app was to apples and it's really hard to even try and explain
that to someone where I think we've had more luck lately
because people kind of approach us and is instead of
them coming to us and being like they're just lower than you, they they have
asked me, you know, I've had a couple people ask me what do you think they're missing?
And more often than not, I'm like, it's prep. I mean, I walk the project. I know
exactly what's going to have to go into it. Like, that's why we like to go into these projects, right? But then, you
know, some of these clients are they're just like, well, they're higher. What can you do for me? And then go back to
your point where it's like, I already gave you my best price, man. Like, if I take any more out of this thing, I it's
what's the point? And that's where before we would probably be like and and
I guess it depends on how hungry you are at that time, right? Because is there a give and take when
you need that work? Yeah. But at the same time, yeah, it's sometimes it's like that's the
price is the price, man. like
but it's it's all those changes where hey
quota with this material and then you're also looking for alternates so you're
you're turning those in and then they're like well all of this is still too much what about this material and they'll
come back with an even more expensive material and this is goes back to uh
Jimmy's point right it's sometimes It's the designers where they have an
unrealistic expectation of their client's budget. So, they're pricing out what
they like and then it comes back and it's like that's not what I thought. So,
it's reworking everything and then that and it's it sucks because it's
projects that we've gotten to, right? Because sometimes you you do have to
hold people by the hand and say, "Hey, I can lead you in this direction over here."
And ultimately, like I'm glad we stuck those out because they ended up being
really good clients. It's but there's some of them where you do
get those red flags right away where it's like I I mean there's been some that I've walked on and just the amount
of people there you're like yeah I'm not even gonna going to end up bidding this. What's up Georgie?
What's up my peoples? Hey. Hey.
See, and and has got um I'm glad you joined us, brother. Um
he's probably got more experience with the the face to face and and and because
of the residential aspect, right? Like you're 100% not 100% but when you spot a
client that could be high risk, you're potentially you're face to face more than I would be since we sit behind the
computer, right? and then we go to meetings and stuff like that. But not to say we haven't had some clients
residential or commercial face to face where we're there's like and we have walked away.
You could tell right away in the beginning the beginning it's usually like when it's like a a
smaller project and then you price it out and it's changes changes. was like, "Bro, this is one
room. I'm not going to spend too much on cater you to you right now when I have so much
other stuff to do." And like, I used to look at things like, man, I can't
believe these people aren't answering. And now I totally understand why people just stop
answering because it's like it's a time sucks. Yeah. with with residential what I've
noticed and every time I've pulled off on a job, it's not because of pricing or
anything like that as far as my labor uh on the material. It's more as far as like when I get there, they're furniture
and you could tell like I get in there and there's a bunch of furniture. They might have high gloss floors of some
sort or wood floors that they don't want scratched. And of course, it's with us it's just a twoman team. So, if I go in
there and there's astronomically big pieces of furniture, I'm going to say, "Hey, you know what? We're probably
going to have to get a a moving company to come in here to do that. That way, they get a bunch of guys to come in and
move this piece that requires four people." you know, um, a lot of people try to save money on stuff like that,
and I try not to help them out in that aspect because I know that if I damage that floor or if I damage that piece of
furniture, I'm going to owe more than what I'm what the labor I'm putting into that job.
Oh, yeah. Um, so for that, I'd rather have a moving company come in and do that, which is where we're moving forward now in my
business. I'm not moving anymore furniture. When I go to these wallto-all projects, furniture has to be out of the
way. Um because I don't work in regular homes either. These are like two, three, $6 million homes. And the furnitureures
are antique pieces that you can't find anymore, right? You can't just go and replace it.
And then in order to fix it, like you said, it's it's going to cost more. Like that one piece of furniture can cost
more to fix than your entire job you just did. Yeah. And I've had people that I go in there and the first thing they'll start
like, you know, this furniture piece and this furniture piece and I'll have to inspect the furniture piece and if I
start seeing cracks and all this, I'm like, "Hey, there's already a damage on the leg. Somebody's moved this before.
There's a damage right here." And when they make a big deal out of a piece of something, I'm like, "All right, you got
to get this moved out of here before I start working. We'll reschedu or we're just not going to we're not going to touch it. We're not going to do the
job." Um, so that's where they're going to end up. either one, they're going to get pissed because the job's not getting
done that same day and we have to reschedu uh or they're just going to say, "Hey, you know what? You're right.
We we definitely don't want this piece damaged. Let's go ahead and get a moving company to do it." So, it just what kind of person are you working with? Are they
going to be able to understand? Um, and that usually comes when I work with certain decorators and designers that I
might tell them, "Hey, it's happened before where I go into a place and I'm like,"Hey, all this stuff before I get
in here, you need to get a moving company, move it out, put it in a pod or wherever you need to put it in another space." And I'll get there and they'll
say, "Hey, you know what? Well, we figured you could move the furniture on the day of that I'm going to do the the
job." And that's where I've had to say like one, I I either move it or I don't move it. It just depends on the client,
uh, the homeowner, right? The homeowner that's going to be there. So, that's just my take on it. Everybody's experience is different, you know.
It's pretty accurate. And Daniel Daniel had said something too right before you went in with the furniture thing about
the losing on the smaller jobs and and yeah, for for the commercial aspect it is 100% like currently
we're currently on a project right now where I spent a lot of time and met with them multiple times to go over
scheduling and phasing and all that and they agreed and they said okay. And now we're on phase, I say phase, we're on
area four of a project that would only take us like four days if it was empty, right? But now we're at seven seven
different areas, nine days worth of work, right? We're on the area four and out
one out of uh or three out of four areas, they haven't been ready when we got there. It's like you guys, you know,
okay, first time, okay, maybe it was an accident. Let's just let's tarp everything up. Let's move. let's get rid of this stuff ourselves,
you know. Second time it's uh it almost ready, but then they shut the water off.
They did like, dude, what's going on? Why you I don't understand the miscommunication. So, like today I got a
phone call 7:15 this morning. They're not ready. Called the lady was like,
"Hey, what's going on?" She was like, "Oh, yeah. I forgot to I was like, "Well, hey, well, this is unacceptable. like I I'm
I'm gonna pull my guys off, right? And what's that going to do to you? Like if you can't be ready for me, then why
should I bend over backwards to make sure that we're still done at the end of the day? So that way you guys can't aren't going to be ready for us
tomorrow. Oh no, please don't do that. Please. I'm like, well, you know, something's got to give. Like I'm
So, you know, and and I hate doing that, right? And I hate trying to pull that muscle card on there, but
they fully expect us to hold up our end of the bargain while they're not holding up theirs. And unfortunately sometimes
you got to flex that muscle and and yeah I I'm I've already donated some hours to
there. Am I going to try to go after them at the end of the day? Probably not unless it gets substantial. But I just
want to make it through it and if they ever call again now I know what to do
the next time, right? Um high risk, high reward. So
yeah, and communication is key at the beginning, the beginning of of you inspecting the job, doing your
estimation, communicating that over uh whatever it is that might need to be
done prior to us uh engaging on to the project. You know, as far as everybody
communicates that, I usually don't have any problems. Um, usually I'll have one job every two years or every 3 years
that, you know, it's a little bit of something where somebody just didn't do their portion. But, uh, for the most
part, as long as I communicate myself with the client and the decorators, designers, builders, everything runs
smoothly. And that's what you have to do. Don't expect for the client to know these things. You gota you got to communicate communicate it over to them.
Yeah. Over overcommunication. I'm really good at that. And I try to try to lay it out right like
like I have to approach it every time like they don't know anything about what we do. Sometimes they do, sometimes they
don't. But I have to approach it like that because I' I've done it very vaguely before and that's the wrong
approach. Um but also the client clients can be vague too, right? they cannot
give you all the information and you kind of plan according to the information you receive
and if that consistently happens with with um another flooring outfit or or a
designer right um we tend to not entertain their projects
more and more and sorry I can't can't I I'm just too busy I can't help you out
on that and that goes for general contractors too there's a couple general contractors that I won't I won't work
for it. They have a lot of work. It's just no, I won't do it. I just I can't bring myself to do it. They've put me in
a bad spot too many times and you know, shame on me if I look do that again. Not
going to call them out. Rod said that he um provides a pre-installed checklist for occupied
spaces and then right after that he says doesn't always work. I mean, but but at least you're providing it, right? At
least you have something that you can talk to them and be like, "Listen, guys, we gave you this list already. These
things were not done prior to us being there." Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to
forgive him about his typos, though. Yeah, Rod, I'm not forgiving you, Rod.
Fat fat fingers, bro. But yeah, it's always good to have a a
pre-installed checklist. Most people that I work with in retail business, they have that um they communicated over
because bro, I'm hard to get a hold of. You go to the back of the line, that's another eight weeks. So,
and that's a great problem to have. Um it's it's um that just shows how how how
custom and personalized your work is, right? Like you are you are have separated yourself and that's awesome.
Congrats, brother. Um, as far as like, uh, you know, we're required to do like pre-qualifications before we go work for
these larger companies, too, right? And and for a while there, I was trying to design something for potential clients
and like a pre-quaw for a client. Um, and I don't know where I heard it or or
read it, but uh someone had said that if you if you put up front that uh estimate or
consultation, right, consultation will cost x amount of dollars, then you're kind of weeding out some of the people
who are just price checking around anyway. Um, I don't know how accurate that is
because we never really implemented it, right? I did try it on a couple people and it I actually got
a portion of the projects I would say. So I guess it does work right. Like I say, hey, if you pay this much money,
this is what comes off of your final bill anyway. So as a as a credit, but if you are just using me to get pricing,
then you know it my time is not wasted. It does work. Um I've I've tried it and
it works. it weeds out the people who just are price checking. Another thing is if I'm doing it through a designer
decorator, uh, and if they're always calling to get estimates on stuff and
hence the the jobs might get done, but sometimes it's stuff that's super easy and I'm like really like this is a 12x13
room like you could do this. I don't have to travel across town to measure
this and waste gas. Uh some stuff's really easy and I'm like I'm surprised they don't take initiative and just get
the tape measure and start doing it. So what I start doing is like for stuff like that I'm going to charge gas 60 65
buck consultation to go to the other side of town just to let them know you need a 12x4 you know and they feel a lot
more comfortable. Great. I don't mind doing it. But sometimes when it's stuff that's real easy and they don't want to
pay sometimes people will say I'm not paying 60 65 bucks. So, what I'll say is, hey, you know what? I'll take it off of the job at the end. You know, I'll
take off your pickup fee or whatever it is. That way, you know, I'm just trying to save money on gas and time because I
don't have a lot of it these days. Um, so any help they can give me on something easy. Hey, take initiative.
Bust out the tape measure. Yeah, 100%. And and and uh we had a
gentleman on here on one of the podcasts a while ago about um an app that actually helps with some of that too,
right? Um I think it's what? Live wire. Daniel, it hasn't we haven't used it yet. Or live switch.
Yeah, sorry. Live switch. Uh James, that was the gentleman's name I believe. Uh
but uh we haven't we haven't personally experienced it
yet, but uh we Dude, I know that we want to. we just we have so much so many
things going on right now that it's hard to keep adding more to the equation um
not knowing exactly what the benefit is for us but uh the the charging for the
consultation like it did work right but then I had to create we had to create a lot more there's a lot more to it than
than just uh the consultation there's no I don't know how to automate it for what
we have and I really wish I could have figured that out but we had other things to do and I couldn't spend any more
time. We're also, you know, more focused on commercial than anything. And it's
someone's not gonna walk around and do an entire business. They they're like
us. They're like, "Listen, I called you because I can't do this. So, just come measure this real quick so I can get on
with what I'm doing." Yep. Every It's all about uh making everyone's lives easier, right? We're
trying to do it as a business. they want to do it as a as a client, a homeowner, business owner. I get it.
Um, so back to like the actual uh topic on
how to spot Well, um, kind of touched on it too, right? When
they're price shopping, right? because um you listen to some of
these guys that have these huge businesses and they're
and it's usually like a GC or something, but I follow a plumber too on, you know, social media and he's like, "Man, it's
the ones that are always like, "How much does this cost?" You know, the the ones that are always trying to spend the
least give you the most headaches because they're always trying to get something for free. For free. Yeah. And he said, and it you can't look
at how much money they make either, right? Because you said you work in, you know, million-dollar houses, right? And
still some of those people are trying to pinch pennies, right? But then you go to a middle class um home and they're like,
"Yeah, whatever you need, like you need me to do this, you need this extra, yeah, we we'll get it done." And it I
kind of have have seen that too where it's like the higher end stuff like they just are trying to pinch those pennies.
It's like this the high-end stuff and then the low-end stuff and then right in the middle is where you'll you'll find
people where it's like man. Yeah. I think it's um a lot of it tends to do with they're in the same boat as us
where you know they they may end up being in a trade and like you said earlier too,
right? They're like, "I'm not trying to to haggle with anyone. The price is the price. Let's just get it done."
Yeah. At some point, you got to be like that. Otherwise, all you're doing is creating more
headaches for yourself, uh, for who whomever you're calling for the work, right? Um
the work should speak for itself, but we live in a time when in dollars and cents unfortunately are
um looked at over um skill set u finished product knowledge base.
It sucks, but we like to do our best to educate the client even if they don't ask for it.
Sometimes I include information that they never even asked for just so they understand where I'm coming from and why
it's included and why I have to have that there or why I feel I need to have it there. I know I put a lot of
information on all my stuff. Daniel's like like today I had a lot of information on that one thing, but
I got to cover all try to cover all bases
for not so big project. Yeah. Tiny. Yeah,
but I like what Nate says here. He says a job site assessment, that's what he calls it, cost $95.
And that's the the craziest thing is is that as much as we drive and the vehicles that we drive, it's like
you're not making any money on it already, right? You know what? Let let me So I recently
just did for for a favor. I went and looked at a project for a a a company, a
person that I know that I've met from FCICA. I went and looked at a project, measured it and assessed it for them
because there was a some warranty uh claims. Um just an assessment and I
wasn't inspecting or anything like that, right? They just wanted to know what was going on. And he said, "Well, how much
are you going to charge to do that?" I said, "Look, I'm not going to charge you anything. I'm going to go take care of it while
I'm running around. I'll take I'll I'll look at it, take some pictures, and I'll just give you some information, right?
I'll save you some time and some headache so that way you can proceed with the manufacturer, do what you got
to do on your end, and I know that, you know, whatever. Buy buy me a dinner or
something next time I see you." Right? That's how that's where I was at. One taco, a bean cheese taco,
whatever. And uh yeah, it's super simple, right? Because because there's a relationship outside of the business
relationship. And today came in the office for an email said, "Hey, we're just going to send you this much money.
Thank you for taking care of it. Are you interested in the install if it comes back up?"
Yeah, I am. And I appreciate it. I didn't didn't expect anything out of
that, but if I get paid for for going and checking it out, the consultation,
right? and then and then it comes back again for the install. Then my my kindness and willingness to help out um
was an investment. It wasn't just me wasting time. Um those are the people I like to work for. Hopefully it turns
into something. And if not, they don't matter. They compensated me anyway. So
didn't expect it. Not everyone's like that. Got to take some of the bad with some of the good,
right? um some of the baded early on. I think um one of the larger construction
companies kept doing this uh conceptual budget, right? Let's can you help me with this conceptual and I'm like oh
this is going to turn into something great. Kept turning things around, turning things around and it just kept
coming and it's like and then I'm looking and all these public projects are going out elsewhere like I'm not even getting invited to like the final
budget, you know what I mean? And this is like final bid. Hey, can you do this? Nope. Oh, you can't. No, dude. Like, what happened to
the 20 other ones I helped you on, right? Like, not even an invite to to the when the project became public. Not
even an invite. Can't can't use uh my information to help you
out if it's not going to turn into anything, right? Like, I'm helping you with your job, but you're not helping me
with my career. So, it sucks to say it like that, and it
sucks to sound so so negative about it, but that's that was it. Like you have to say no at some point.
Yeah. And and it happens. I've had the same issue with people who hey I need a measure. I need a measure. I need a
measure and then uh you know three four of them and then later on hey I need
another measure. I'm like hey dude what happened to this one? Oh well uh you could tell they're making something up
in their head and it's like well uh I grabbed another guy or or the homeowner used somebody else. I'm like, "Well,
you're the one taking over the project, so you know what? For this one, we'll just I'll just go ahead and let this one
go. Maybe call me on the next one. I'll see what's up." And you know, I'm eight weeks. I'm 10 weeks. I'm 6 months out.
Like 6 months out, like Rollin. And they won't call you. They'll be like, "All right." You keep on telling them that,
they won't call you no more because they know. They're like, "Oh, this dude's not telling me. He just doesn't want to do my jobs." That's the most respectful way
you could do it. like ah you know I'm so many weeks out I will say
and then when you call me at that time I'm another weeks out you should you got back with me the last
time you called then you would have been all good right um another red flag I will say and we've
experienced this one um and companies that we've worked for in the past right
and and decided to stop and and then we get a phone call and they say hey I
really need your help on this one this one's got your name all over it. I I don't trust anybody else. Um but can you
do it for this price? Like uh no, we can't. Oh man, but I really need your help. Like like I can't I don't trust
anybody else. It's like okay well then if you don't trust anybody else then then you
understand that the cost is the cost. If you don't trust anybody else, don't bid on it and don't get the work. But if you
are not willing to um invest in us, then why am I going to help you out on this
one if I know you're not going to call me the rest of the year for anything else?
And that's like a real that's a real conversation actually. Um and you catch people off guard, right? Like they're
like like I don't even know what to say to that. Well, like Nate says right here,
sometimes you have to fire the client. Yeah. Yep. I seen that. That's a good one right there, Nate.
And it's not even necessarily firing them, right? Because you haven't even worked with them yet in some cases, but it's like
like people ask us or have asked me what was like the turning point with us,
right? And I was like when we started saying no. Yeah.
Like you you can't be everything to everyone. Oh, I didn't mean to click on
that.
I don't know why my computer's doing this. I keep on trying to click on something and it's not it's not click
the tablet. I'm trying to read it. It's all small print right right now, but this camera and the microphone seem to
work better and more consistent. So, um I'm looking at the one that that Rod put
the the greatest risk is is not knowing all the details of what you're pricing. That's the one that I was trying to put
up and it kept on it was I clicked on it and it will go like five up.
So you know what Rod that man that is
words of wisdom right there statement too and and the reason I say words of wisdom there is um and this is in our area in
our area and when we started out we didn't know what we were getting paid for a project when we were starting out
right like these work rooms would wouldn't even give us a work order till the day of uh and
I didn't I didn't like that. But we had to we did take it and start like that
and we accepted it not knowing just just knowing that we had some kind of uh we
were generating revenue whether it was profitable or not, right? Um
didn't matter. We we had work on the books and we we were staying busy and and we we knew that we were going to get
paid um at least for 90% of what was on the paperwork.
A lot of these installers don't know the business part and that's how they live. work order to work order and they they
know that they have work on the books. Um, and they might know the address of where they're going, but they don't have
all the details. And unfortunately, they don't find out until they go load up that morning what they're doing that
day. Yeah. And that's um that's that's a horrible way to be a that's a horrible
model for a business owner, right? um 1099 independent or not, that's not a
very very good model. And um a lot of the people who step outside of that find
success a little bit a little bit quicker u because they're giving themselves structure. But just so you
guys know, man, like if there's a company out there that does that um and they don't want to share information
with you until the day of, unfortunately, that's a red flag. even if they are a large company, that's a
red flag. And the reason I say that is if you're trying to grow,
they're trying to hinder that. And if they're not trying to hinder that, then you companies should listen
up. Share the information. Ask them to help you with the bids if if they're available, right?
Ask for input on products on adhesives that work better with certain products. that goes a lot further instead of
making the installer eat it or not know. So, red flag is not sharing information
prior to the project starting, especially if it's a large project. Like, if I'm going to be there for a
month, what other installers are you going to have on site? What's my my primary
objective? Um, what are dollars and cents that I'm looking forward to to making? And what is the process of the
change orders? If I hit extras, how do I make sure I'm going to get paid for the extra work that I'm going to do?
That's pretty basic. Yeah. And it's also um getting back to
the work order, not knowing what's going on with it is till you the day you get there is counting on the person who's
actually going out there to the job site and that's building that work order for you. How experienced are they? You know,
like uh cuz some of these jobs might not be in town. There might not be a supply store nearby. So, how much how much
material do you have in your van? You know, by the time you get there, it's like, "Oh, well, I'm going to be putting
carpet down on uh ceramic floor. I don't I didn't bring a lot of uh, you know,
liquid nail or whatever. However, right, and I'm an hour and a half away from anything."
Yep. That has happened, dude. Like, that has literally happened. And
that's where teaming up and making sure like if you start with a with a designer who's pretty green or or outside sales
or inside sales for another company and they're pretty green and fresh um
as the installer share some of your experiences with them. So that way if they're serious about it they will kind
of put those safeguards in place. They want to be better, right? um if they don't if they don't entertain
anything that you're saying and and don't want to work with you in their way or or no way or or that's not what my
that's not what my paper says to do, my checklist that that they created, right? If they like that,
you're probably not going to have a lot of great experiences. um red flag, stay away or give them a
chance and see if they want to um create a relationship and and and an understanding, right? Let's let's let's
dance. We're we're going to dance so that way we're both happy at the end of the night. We don't want to lose. I
don't want you to lose and and I don't want to lose. So, let's make sure that that we have a a a good understanding of
and a level of expectations. Otherwise, it ain't going to work. I'll do this one for you and then I'll move on.
Yeah, by now I've already managed to any retail store that I work. You need to
send me pictures of the areas that I'm working on. You need to send me if you're building it on Measure Square,
whatever you're doing, I want to see what it looks like on that. I want everything you have, material, specs,
pricing, uh how much did this cost, what kind of padding are you putting down? And Daniel's seen it because when we're
sitting in the press room, you saw when they sent me in that email, right? You're like, "Wow, you get all that, bro. I asked for everything." And if I
don't have it, it just delays their process. So, because I'm going to look at it and be like, "Whoa, you're missing this. You got to go back to the house
and get this for me." So, and that's why I said that because I I'm not used to other people requiring all
the stuff that we usually require, right? And then once you you see it, it's like, I was so happy that you did.
Yeah. 100%. And it's uh so I have we have a company that
we've been working for for a long time. I worked for them when I worked for um
actually the couple the couple companies we do labor only for that we still partner with. I've worked for them since
almost day one of me being an installer to be honest with you. Um and
the amount of details like at first they're like why do you need all this information? like why and they're like
you want so much now they understand I get a whole breakdown a whole list right
and they'll say I didn't have time to check this or I forgot to check this but then it's always the they this one is
too big and there's a lot of moving parts I would rather you just meet me on the project and we can walk with the
client and ask the questions because I know I'm not going to get all the questions um asked or answered that that
you typically ask and I appreciate that 100%. Um,
sometimes it's not very convenient, but at the same time, I'd rather be inconvenience for a couple hours before
anything starts than be inconvenience for a week or two with a crew with no
work or hitting uh a lot of issues that could have been prevented. Um, that cost
that cost me inconvenience money, right? inconvenience of fees for my uh negligence on not spending a couple
hours with them prior to. So, and that goes for work for yourself, too. Just
spend the time. Um,
if you guys are doing a vetting process or or or if you're doing a vetting process on some clients,
um, like you're advertising, right? Should advertisement be somewhat of a vetting process? Should it incorporate
some of that? Um, and even if it's word of mouth, I wonder
how people do that. I'm I'm thinking outside the box here now, guys. Like, I'm just trying to to think of of
different ways to avoid the red flags and and and like kind of I
hate saying categorize clients, right? But essentially they everything gets categorized anyway. we get put in a
category um for based off an experience or based off what people say. So
trying to find different ways to go about doing that.
That's uh yeah Nate I like to know where I'm going before I get there.
I think to your question like marketing
could could have something to do with it because you see these
these companies that it's like lowest prices guaranteed and all this stuff,
right? And it's they're shopping for one type of client and it's typically the clients that we may be trying to avoid.
I will um free installation.
I've gotten this one lif lifetime warranty. This is the one I've been dealing with recently. I'm like I'm
doing staircase runners and uh you really I mean you could give a a lifetime warranty on
they're doing it on installation too, but I'm like uh you know I'm putting seaggrass up there. it's going to break down on your staircase after so many
years because it's not supposed to be like, you know, nobody's going to warranty a staircase on on carpet uh
that I know. I mean, there's I'm sure there's a couple manufacturers out there, but most of the ones I know don't
warranty any. So, when a retail person does that, I'm like, I mean, yeah, if it's installation wise,
I'll go back and repair it, but some of this stuff's going to start breaking down in like six, seven years, not even
that, you know? Right. It's I think it's hard to
if I say we're give a lifetime warranty on our our installs that means that um I
have the utmost confidence in the end user or client's ability to maintain it properly.
Well, that's the thing. It's it's that's that's where you get into even manufacturer warranties where they will
say that it's warrantied, but then when you read their instructions, it's all right. Well, if you want to maintain
this warranty, you have to get it cleaned every six months and you have to do this every day and you have to do this once a week and this once a month.
So, there's there's things that fall in line for that type of stuff.
All right, lost your video.
Sounds like a Sounds like you got a party going on over there, bro. Oh, did did your headphones die?
No, my headphones are good. I just I have to move around. Oh.
Well, thank you for not making me curse sick.
Well, uh I don't really know what else to ask and
where to go, right? Like I want to give different scenarios, but just you know there everybody has red flags
at one point or another and everybody that even the people that you do work with
at some point um have a a high-risk project or scenario.
um it doesn't always work out in your favor or their favor, but
um at the end of uh I won't say at the end of the day in in a relationship, you're
going to hit the high-risk zones and you're it's not always going to be favorable, right? But um you look at one
of our relationships right now is, you know, 25 years. If you look at the full
25 years, have we lost something? Yes. Have we gained more than we lost? 100%.
Um, but that's the whole 25 years, you know what I mean? Uh, you just don't want to
start a relationship um with anyone contractor, designer, other flooring
store. You don't want to start a relationship uh on a high-risk note
because you're not gonna it's gonna be harder to come back from that. you're always going
to have that that chip on your shoulder working with them and always think that something bad's going to happen and then that's going to be your approach and
then if that's your approach then you're not doing anybody any any favors by by giving the best pricing or or maybe even
the best information or even the best attitude. Um so I I would say
if you have a sour taste in your mouth in the beginning something spectacular has got to happen
to change that. Yeah. if it doesn't feel good up front, you know,
it's up to you, you know, whether you want to take on it or not. Um, I like sitting down with the owners of these
businesses sometimes and just kind of, you know, going over the contract and and talking over just because I like to
I like for them to have an open door policy. Me go in there anytime, talk to them if I need something. Um, and you
know, as long as they're open, I work with those companies. If if I notice something even from the top of the food
chain that's not trickling right, then um I just I don't even go into that
business and I'll tell them, "Hey, just lose my number cuz
yeah, like I don't I don't want to deal with people calling me all the time and me telling them no." So, it's just like
I'll just tell you no right now and just don't call me. I have too much work to be dealing with.
with stuff like that. Yeah, I don't think anybody does. And um
Rod had put on there do your gambling at the casino and he's right. And that old saying that's been around forever,
Daniel. Like I don't even know where we heard it or where it came about. I just know that we repeat it quite a bit. Um
and it's uh I I've never lost a dime on a job I didn't take. Right.
Yeah. And I don't even know if that's like, dude, that that's been in in in the
arsenal for for conversations for a very long time. No clue where it came from. I
know that everybody's heard some sort of variation of that, but so true. Um,
yeah, Nate Nate said that he tried selling extended warranties, but that didn't go over too well. And you see all
these other service-based businesses be able to do that, right? HVAC, stuff like
that. And it's like I don't think anyone would ever bite with
with flooring, but at at that token, it's like if you do if there's an issue
with the with your flooring, it's typically not just a minor issue that you can just go in there and be like,
"Oh, yeah. I'll just repair this plank." Usually, it's like, "Hey, will you come and take a look at this?" It's like
gabbing everywhere or all these locking mechanisms are broken.
I'd like to talk to you about your carpet and LVP extended warranty.
That that phone call. Hey, you know what? You just brought something up, too. Is um you know, a
high-risisk doesn't always have to be a client, right? It can be a distributor, too. It can be a uh you know, someone
that that's providing you with your uh your tools, your and your your equipment
and your product. So I you know and it sucks that it's the end of uh the hour because and I do got to take off because
our girls have a softball game that starts in 15 minutes. Um but um
that's also communicate. That's where the communication thing falls into place like you had said earlier. Um if if your
rep is is not willing to communicate with you and like hey sometimes we do ask a lot of
our reps. I'll be honest, we do. But that holds a lot of weight when
we're sharing information and and and when we're able to kind of u
um submit alternates and recommend products, right? Like someone who is on
our side and someone who is more than willing to help us out from a service standpoint, customer service, and answer
the phone call when there's issues, right? And and respond to the text message when we need an answer on
something. uh sooner than later that that that is worth its weight in gold in
a rep. Yeah. If you ensure the proper positive steps and move forward in every job and
you and you communicate properly, um and just, you know, talk to the
people you need to talk to. Make sure you get your point across up in the front. I'm sure everything will go
smoothly. Um just remain positive. always look at the bright side of things. Uh, and and just look at look at
everything up front and make sure make sure it's the the the way you want to go. So, if you if you do that, I'm sure
everything will always flow just smoothly. It happens, man. There's it's there
comes a time with stuff starts flowing real smoothly. And I can't speak for everyone, but, you know, most of the
times I'm I'm happy. I'm at the bar early. At the brewery early.
I'm at the bar. No, I mean I I I got out early, you know, a two a day and a half job. I'm
out early. I picked up my work for tomorrow. I'm ready to go. I'm picking out the yarns. Um and I'm doing
estimates in a little bit and I'm good. I'm golden. So, you know, just remain
positive. Let it flow real nice. You'll be good.
Yeah. and and the more practice you get, the easier it becomes. Um the balance.
Well, guys, I think uh I think we're at the end of the podcast anyway. So, yeah. So, thank you everyone for joining.
Appreciate you guys. Yeah, thank you for all the comments and uh Rod, Nate, yeah, you guys have a
lot of good insight on that, too. And yeah, this could could carry on. Yeah, they
they know some those great They've been around. They've been around. Yeah, they they don't uh use
just for men to hide anything, right? They wear it all out. Look at look at all my grays, bro.
Actually, I got some kind of in here, too. So, yeah. Well, good luck to the girls on the games, uh, boys and girls. And, uh,
hey, go first go over here. Yeah.
Thanks everyone. Hey, find us on the socials. Like, uh, like or don't like. Uh, if you haven't already, please
subscribe. Uh, find us on YouTube. Um, I think everywhere. Yeah, we're we're on all the platforms.
Um, if you like the content, please share it. If you don't like it, please share it. Tell everybody that you don't
like it and share it with them. Haters. Haters invited. Shake them off.
That looks like Dandruff, bro. That looks like Dandruff. We'll see you guys next week.
