The Huddle - Episode 214. Is the Industry Too Comfortable?
Comfort feels safe, but it can also keep an industry stuck.
In this episode of The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose take a hard look at whether flooring has become too comfortable with the way things have always been done.
The conversation digs into where old habits still hold the trade back, how resistance to change shows up in business and installation, and why progress requires more than just talking about innovation.
The flooring industry is dealing with new expectations around training, technology, professionalism, workforce development, and customer experience. None of those challenges will be solved by doing the same things forever.
This episode is less about criticizing the past and more about asking what needs to change next. If the industry wants to keep growing, attracting talent, and raising the standard, comfort may be one of the first things we have to challenge.
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What is up team? Welcome back to the huddle, the number one podcast in flooring. We're here every week to help
you guys gain forward progress in your career. Simply put, we're here to help you guys win. For all our new viewers,
welcome to the team. What's up, fellas? What's going on? What's going on?
Oh, just a little bit of uh you know trying to get some get some work and
then get it done and the do it all over again. Yeah, every day it's like we need to go
get some work. Let's get some work. Okay, now we got to get that work done. Okay, get that work done. We need more
work. [laughter] It's like uh it's a find all the the empty spots and just try to fill it and then you end up
finding too much and yeah, I can I got that for you, but can you do this next
week for me? So yeah, just um you know, doing the
daily grind of of uh the flooring industry and you know, working on trade
tap and the VTI and our training hubs. If you guys haven't seen, uh, make sure
to go get your VTI and, uh, get signed up for NF, uh, NFCT course. Um, you can
take those online courses anytime. So, let's get that going at least, folks.
Give me a holler if you have any problems, but uh, we trust you'll get to it. Swimmingly, today's sponsors is Pro
Installer Magazine. Check it out. Like if you're wanting to stay somewhat
involved or informed about the industry from an installation perspective, uh Pro
Installer Magazine is the best place to go. Go check them out. We'll kick up a QR code here in a in a minute and click
on that thing and go check out Pro Installer Magazine and uh give them a
shout out when you uh when you're in there and uh let them know, you know,
reach out to those guys, let them know you've seen them here on the huddle. The other sponsor today is Trade Tap. We
are pushing forward with a lot of our initiatives. We have eight different college programs in in uh action at the
moment and uh placing multiple others. Got great opportunities for placing
uh the BTI and the training hub uh that all feeds the the feeds trade taps
network and accreditations. Um there's eight current, two more coming on board.
And then we are working with a career center in Ohio to bring on about 40ish
uh career centers to upskill and teach people in the flooring industry. They'll go on to Jumpstart and you guys can hire
them right off of Jumpstart. So uh stay tuned. We'll be launching Jumpstart soon
uh to make all those uh those hiring of these new students, new people to the
flooring industry go snag them up and uh let's get them to work.
All right. Well, today's topic fits right into our intros here, but uh
the topic is is the industry too comfortable? Uh just a little framework. I think that
as the boys and I were talking here before uh there's two sides. You got the
installation industry uh portion of the industry and you have manufacturer,
dealer, distributors kind of like the product side. Um often those overlap but
they are two distinct sides. So we might explore both in this conversation. and
uh and see what everybody thinks. So, make sure to get on. Uh if you're
catching us on YouTube, leave us a comment, leave us a like, give us a subscribe on there. Same with our social
channels. Go follow us on Facebook. Um in particular, this is where we go live.
Uh we go live multiple places, but Facebook's a great place to catch the show. So get on there and
um uh give us a follow so you're up to date every time we launch the huddle.
So guys, is the industry too comfortable?
And which side we starting with? I think we start with the installer side.
There you go. The installation side. All right, Jose, kick us off.
So uh the from the installation side let's just start like obviously where we started right we were employees and um
that was a 1099 then W2 uh
from then until now before used to be where
there wasn't enough work out there for everyone like there wasn't enough lucrative work out there for everyone um
and everyone there was more people back when I started that wanted to learn a trade than there is now it seems like and that
might just be me maybe I have you know a biased view on that but
um I would say I'm going to blame it right on co once co hit people got the the 3D money um there was an inflation
of value even if the skills were minimal um that kind of took over and I think
that people are getting too comfortable people asking for more than what they
can provide to an industry. Not just flooring. I'm saying to an industry like
if they want to go into a certain type of work, but you know, day one people want to make So you're talking the entire labor
industry, not just flooring. Yeah. This is it's starting with
flooring, right? But I know it's it's not just an epidemic here, right? In our
industry. I know it's is worldwide and and it's not one industry or another. I
just think that that there is a misconception on what an individual can produce with zero
to no knowledge or very little education for a company who
um has kind of set their planted their roots and and their um in their network.
planting the roots in in their um local area. Um well across industries like regardless
of industry I think there's this you know
co created you said inflation it also created an entitlement
epidemic I think um I watched I [clears throat] was watching a real earlier today of this gal talking about
how much she appreciates or you know requires ires rather working from home
and that working in her company uh having to work
from home that she can walk away from the work at any time and kind of gather her thoughts and her all this I mean she
went on forever and she got let go on that call like she got an email that she
was being let go that they're reducing their at home workforce and she was
livid that that would happen and that um
but you know one of the commentators of that reel was like look if you're not in the office like that's a privilege. It's
not companies don't have to um you know let you work from home
and so I think it caused a little bit of a this idea that we're owed something
without the effort. Um, it's never worked that way in human history. And a lot of this new age kind of thought
process that I work for the company, so the company owes me everything, um, is
outside of how life works. I mean, before there were companies to give you
food and stuff, you had to go work your land and your your your your
herds to create your clothing and your food.
You didn't sit on your on your wooden couch and say,
you know, the land is to provide for me without me working the land or something, you know. I mean, [laughter]
we we've had to earn what we what we eat. We've had to earn what we clothe
ourselves with or our comforts. Um, so yeah, I think there a little bit of
an entitlement thing came along and it's been getting crushed over the last year or two and
we'll see where it all goes. I think when we start talking about the the
topic is the industry too comfortable and we're talking about installers.
Somebody said this and it may have been Ben with Trade Tap. This edit um and I think it was they said, you know, we
skipped a couple of generations in training and our and presenting our
industry as a craft as a as a real industry to be in as opposed to just a
job to have. And that that training has skipped a couple of generations. So you
have a long a large kind of cohort of
installers these days that are undertrained. I I I can tell you from our network count uh versus the ranking
on the network, it is it is undertrained. if any other industry have the the numbers that we have. Um when
they have that like you don't have it in other professional industries like if if electricians if if 78%
plus of them were unlicensed. Yeah. Yeah. That would be a problem.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Like and you don't just get the license given to you. You got to go through
education. And I've talked to guys that have done that. We've had a couple guys on this podcast even uh from the
electrical world. Same with plumbing. Same with uh you know HVAC techs, you know, getting a license to do what
you're doing, what you're installing or providing a service for.
um you know it's kind of it kind of went away in Florine and then there was a void of a resource or a way to actually
credentialize and and and be able to have any accurate metrics on
your industry and um another plug for Trade Tap. The whole reason it exists is
to add credentiing and and cataloging of installer capabilities and
qualifications and then allow that to be exposed and uh to the point that the
installer wants it to be. Uh just a side note, the installer's profiles are not a
googleable, if that's a word, googleable. Is that a Googleable?
Google. It's not a Googleable thing. It's not as though you can go on and Google it and
and go on and see their theirh profiles. They have to share it.
So control of their profiles. But when they want to set themselves apart, they
can show their profile and uh get set apart from your common everyday guy that
really is not taking this very seriously. So what you just said actually really
does draw it back specifically to our industry as far as the comfort thing. Um
you know in in a world where credentials aren't required to show and you got to
take someone on their word or their ability, right? The value
from them is what they show you. If we can't provide documentation on what we've
done, what we're doing, what we've educated ourselves on, then we're just
it's just our word, right? And um I I like the idea that we still live in a
world where, you know, our word in a handshake is good enough. Uh but unfortunately,
uh it's not anymore. Uh, and then say like that, but um
but that's where the entitlement and then the um are we getting too comfortable? Right. like
well I was going to just say that you you know the word in your handshake go
that's a deep kind of well because like you the you're being
trustworthy as we were talking about in last week's podcast or being which leads
to respect but that handshake indicated that you stood
behind what you're saying and you have to have the the true credentiing to
stand beh like you you see what I'm saying? Um it's it's very hollow to
stand behind your word and do what you say you're going to do if you do not have the skill level required to do it.
Correct. Correct. And and that's where I was going. That's the comfort thing. It's uh
knowing that you can say this isn't what I know and shake someone's hand and then say, you know what, this ain't working
for me. I'm going somewhere else. Um and then go shake someone else's hand and give them the same line. Um and then
always put blame on everybody else. Well, they didn't like my stuff, so I'm
going somewhere else. They didn't appreciate me. I'm going somewhere else. Um, and for me to say that I've never
been in that position myself, I'd be lying, right? But well, and that's okay though. Like even
that attitude's okay to like go somewhere else if you have the skill and ability to go somewhere else. I mean, we
all built our companies or this group, all three of us built what we have through
having the courage to go out and stick your neck out and put your money at
risk. put your time at risk and your reputation at risk to go start something [clears throat] and then to hire other
people to help you on that that journey. But if you have the skill and ability
and you have the risk profile to go out and do your own thing, I had one of my best installers this this uh
this last uh month, you know, let us know that he wants to sub. We're not stopping him. We're going to help him be
the best subcontractor he can be. uh got him in touch with the accountant, got him in touch with a uh our an insurance
company that we've dealt with over the years, and we're we're trying to help him be as successful as possible. But,
you know, we've got a one of our installers that was really good that's actually competing with us now. I mean,
they're out in the marketplace like actively getting some jobs and I
who am I to like I hear it all the time from retailers and dealers like create
my own competition. Okay, but just get better. You're not you haven't been in this long
enough if you haven't created some competition or you know so so like um in in the process of
creating your own competition, right? you're still helping create a better business for yourselves, right? If
you're not if you're not trying to create a better business for yourself, you're not unintentionally creating
competition anyway. You want them to get better. You want everyone to get better. That isn't that the goal? Well, and a
highly I'd rather a highly trained good guy go out and compete against me than a
someone who's like Chuck in a truck because at least I know the guy that's
trained and you know like educated on the industry knows what
they're worth uh to an extent has a better idea of what they're worth and
will not go out under bidding everybody just to get the jobs, right? They have
this there's this swagger to people who are educated and trained and and
certified that they know what they're worth and they're not going to take work for like pennies on the dollar just to
make a retailer or a dealer happy. Coincidentally, that's also what scares the retailers and dealers the most is is
a a confident, you know, um
I would say a confident and educated installer. So, you want to buck the
system. If you're listening to this and you're an installer, you want to buck the system, get credentialed, get
certified, get trained that you are one of the few. You want to be in the top 1%, the top 20% for sure. Go get two
certifications. Go get take two training classes, real training classes. You'll be in the
top 2% of or 20% of all installers in the nation just by doing that and then
going applying the skill you learned and going back getting a little more training to hone that skill in. and not
like if you want to be a rebel be be the best
because there's very few installers out there. Most of them are there's a lot of
hobbyist what I would call guys who do it you know
without the training without the knowledge but know just enough to be able to get a floor down and but they're
not they're not professionals. They don't treat the job as a profession. That's what on on Instagram, that's what
Mario says. He says, uh, floor god, "Hey, I'm that chuck in a truck." [laughter]
You know what? You know, another thing real real quick to interrupt. Um, I saw on social media on Facebook, I was
scrolling or maybe it was Instagram, I don't know, one of the videos where a guy was doing residential. He was
serpenting a Berber and there was hundreds of comments on it, right? And
um you know and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's a product out there that I don't know about that you can just cut across
those rows right into the Berber double cut. And I don't know but everybody is like giving them
information. Some people ripping on them. Some people saying hey looks good. But uh being comfortable not
understanding the ramifications of improperly installing a product because
no one ever holds you accountable. That's another thing too. I mean, we've been there, you know, back
in the day when we're doing stuff like that. And I think at at some point, like
you just have to take a look at what you do and then if you see all these comments, you you're you got to actually
look at it and be like, "Hey, maybe I don't know as much as I think I do." And that's where
a lot of these people need to have their mindset rather than just you also have
that other side that I mean there's one guy that's been tagging preferred flooring in a bunch of stuff. He'll tag
Preferred Flooring and CFI and say am I doing this right knowing that
like I would want to say that he knows he's not doing it right but that's the way he does it and he just doesn't care.
Well, it's they think those types of people to me
think they're like being um
I don't know, they're they're like being outliers or rebels. You are part of the crowd, buddy. You are part of the 95%.
You're not part of the 5%. You're not part of the really really good guys.
you're not part of the the the the small percentage uh of people
the it's almost embarrassing when you see that kind of stuff really. I feel
embarrassed for people that do that because I'm like, "Dude, do you not realize you're just acting like the the
the whole crowd, the whole the rest the 95% of installers who are under educated
from a installation perspective, I'm not making any claim on their regular
education. Most installers I've ever met are incredibly intelligent. um I being one
of them uh [laughter] not maybe not on the intelligent part but definitely on one
as an installer. So it's not a it's not a talk on their actual education but
but on their installation education on their craft. Um, I've we've talked about
this plenty of times on the podcast, but man, we used to be like revered in the
skilled trades as one of the the, you know, the harder uh like the artisans
kind of artisan craftsman. I know they're coming in. You know, it's one of the reasons why I um you know, the top levels in the
trade tap uh VTI is artisan and elite artisan. So,
Romeo says he's certifying he's paying for for four guys to train
to send them out as subs, right? And I think that's what
like you're a We my hero. We can't keep on gatekeeping and
thinking that these people are going to do it on their own, right? Um we've been on that side
before, too, when it was a distributor. A distributor approached us and was like, "Hey, we're having failures with
this one product. Will you go get trained so that way we can start giving
you some some of this work?" It's like, "Yeah." And it's we were fairly new at
that point and it's like I'm not going to turn down free training. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I don't if anybody
ever offers free training even if it's on a weekend a couple hour just education class take it. Um you know
it's just one of those things that when what you say Daniel's another
another tool in the toolbox, right? is one one more piece of information that you can lean on or you might have to
lean on at some point in your career. Um you bringing up manufacturer is a great
segue to like that's all right. you know get get into the industry from that aspect on the
material uh delivery and
you know workforce development like who owns that
who should own that um you know and I I'm going to venture to
say and you can check me on this I'm not saying this as a fact But I I do believe
that most of it is um has to fall on the people making
the product to make sure they have a trained industry to get their product put in. I don't know how Floring got
away with it to just all these manufacturers doing that. So many of them just are like
I I Yeah. And and you know and and I've seen them step away from the certifications and call them training,
right? Because people who are going through the certifications, they'll have failures and you know it's there's going
to be people who use it to their advantage, right? And there's going to be people who take advantage of a
certification. Um, and taking advantage
is becoming a blip on the radar so you can get specific type of work but still
cut corners and not do it the right way. And And that's why the manufacturers have
been cutting back on that. And you know, we've talked about it before where we see it where people use
team up though, right? Sorry to interrupt you, but they got to team up you guys at NASC and CFI
and I know a little bit of that's happening, but VO put get your
trainings. If you want to call them trainings, fine. I'm not so against that, but team up with it so that it
gets credentialed. So it's not like people don't want to just go to your training and provide no value to them.
They don't have any anything they can leverage off of that. They go spend four or five days with you at your to go
through your training and they don't get they have nothing to leverage unless they're installing your particular product maybe. I mean, team up with
Trade Tap. Get your pro, get your trainings on the VTI. Get them weighed so that the installer
can get ranking out of it. Team up with NFCT so that your resilient
products are properly trained on. Get the work with them to create the
curriculum and put the best curriculum out there and then help them fill their
classes like a void of the certification. You got to do something. And if you're a manufacturer watching
this, you should be doing some of these things. Teaming up with CFI, teaming up with NASC, teaming up with the
highquality uh programs out there, and helping them create the curriculum
needed to properly train people and then helping them fill their course load.
Yeah, it's a trickle effect. You're absolutely right. And and the the format you said too just reminded me when I was
uh starting to look into like all these uh resonance codings and these classes and all that. Every single one was like
come get certified, come do this, come but it's for product that is
specifically sold specific. And that's why it's nice [clears throat] with, you know, these
organizations where it's not like we can get a handful of manufacturers that sell
the same thing and yeah, they might go down with different adhesive and it's a different dry time and or
all that stuff, but it's all basically the same thing, which is why they should
be wanting to partner with someone like this. Mhm. Right. It's a it's a broad training
and and partnering might not be um like assuming responsibility of something
that fails, right? Partnering might be just allowing recognition of your your
product and the and the training as a partnership, right? Like it does apply. That might be what it is and that would
be super super helpful. um always said like the one of the things that launched
the VTI was the fact that like a Forbo certification back in the
day that was great if you're installing Forbo, but what the VTI did is we
recognize at Trade Tap that the fact that you went through that training made
you a better resilient installer. Yeah, brother. Period. like it didn't just apply to
Forbo. A lot of the tools and techniques even uh Nora's uh certification it you
are a better installer overall over all products just for going through that
course and taking that training and getting that certification. So that was why the
VTI came along is because of the lack of certifications and and
you know in the tile world at least you can get a online certification for example and those types of deals
obviously don't really uh equate to having the hand skills needed to do the
thing. You got knowledge and you got hand skills. You got to form both of those in unison.
Right. There there's value in both of those. Absolutely. and and one will get ahead of the other. If you've ever went to
some education through this, you you recognize you learn something, then then you got to go kind of apply it to get
your hand skills caught up with your new knowledge uh where you get the hand skills above your your knowledge base
and you can almost do anything with your hands, but you don't have the knowledge that's needed for the specific
applications. And right, both of those kind of teeter totter up that way. And I do want to add to for
for the installers out there that are afraid like they have the hand skills and they feel like their knowledge base
is minimal. Sometimes it isn't that your knowledge base isn't there. It's just the terminology isn't there. And taking
some of these classes and getting educated and sitting in a room with your peers and being more comfortable talking
terminology, you'll actually find out that your knowledge base is a lot higher than you thought it was. is just you
just might not be referring to the product or the system in the manner in
which the industry does. That's and like Jose says here, being certified is great, but the networking that comes
with it's even better. That's a perfect application for that, right? Like you get you get to um leverage other
people's knowledge. Um, I remember my my uncle, he would say that a wise man or a
smart man learns from his own mistakes. A wise man learns from others. [laughter] Dude, there's because of
even with like we did NFIC, right? And anytime I'm like doing something, I'm
I'm I still have the book and I'm still going through it. And then I'm if I
don't understand 100% of something, I'm like, I'm going to give H a call. And then I call him and he's like, I do the
same thing. I have the book with me all the time, too, like just in case. And then, you know, I I called Don
Perkins because I know he'll pick up the phone right away.
Today, I sat on the webinar for FCICA and I had a question that didn't get asked. So, I just text Jason because he
was the the host today. He was the one presenting. Um I went and looked at a project that they totally killed their
BCT and I asked them like this how many square feet it is. This is approximately how old the the concrete is or the
building is and this is what's going once removal is done. What would be the next
steps, right? The proper next steps, what would you do? And he was like, this is what he gave me a couple things to do
and I was like, you know what? I wouldn't even have thought about that specific thing.
But that's the network. and he helped me view it from a different lens, which in
turn educates you, helps you, makes you a little bit smarter. Yeah. If you want to network uh next
month, go and uh hit it up with uh Rin and
Rodon Bush over at Fisherman Flooring Solutions. That certification is
starts on the 17th. Two very smart individuals right there and very very
easy to talk to. Fishman Florian in Kentucky. Rod might look a little sour sometimes,
but he's approachable. I promise. Rod's a great guy and everybody knows
that uh that Rollin is a great information sharing kind of individual. He he'll
he'll share a race. So go out and hang out with those guys and and learn something. If you're in Kentucky, again,
that's at Fishman Floring. It's in Louisville, right? Yeah.
Yeah. Go check them out. Um Ra uh Rin, if you have like a a flyer or something,
post it in the chat. Let's uh get it up on board. So, when we're talking about is it too
comfortable? I I think we've been too comfortable for many many years and I
think the skilled trades in general have been too comfortable. Um, I think that
everybody felt that that like it was coming and things are happening. But
[clears throat] I looked at a stat that, you know, when you talk about the average installer
uh age being now 56, do do you know what it takes to
for that to increase three years? That means you're not bringing in any youth
and your older people are just your your your core group is just getting older.
Now it took five years for it to get gain three because you are getting some new younger guys but not enough to
offset. That number should be coming down. That number is going up. as that
continues to go up, it's because we're we're we need to continue to bring in um
you know, the youth and hire the newly trained guys. So, be on the look for Jumpstart, you guys are going to love
that product. That's going to great resource. And maybe not even just the youth, right? Like if you get someone who
say someone who's 35, right? They they 35 years old and they're driven. They've
tried a few things. they haven't found their place yet and they're willing to to get their their hands dirty and work
and learn. Someone who's 35 in five years can can be a great installer in a
couple disciplines, right? Like it's not that hard to be good at what we do, but
it is hard to stay motivated and to apply yourself to to want to be better. And that's where the comfort thing, and
I'm going to get back on the topic here with that, is um too comfortable as far
as the manufacturers not putting out the information and making it required of
people to continue their education a as an industry, right? they're too comfortable
selling everything they can, changing the product uh to make it more DIY friendly and then also the lack of
requirements by a sales team, a a sale sales staff or an installer to install
their product. So, we're as an industry pretty comfortable with allowing people
to fail. Um I think yeah, we're comfortable with like, oh, there's a warm body. let's put
them out there as opposed to like you know having some work force
development um initiative. I I love the comments coming through. Uh Romero says
if [clears throat] anybody's interested in CTI so CTI certification they also have trainings. They have CTEF has a lot
of different programs but this is by CTF the ceramic tile education foundation.
Sounds like there's a training a CTI certification I'm assuming that will
happen at the Artex uh compound there in Mansfield, Texas on
August 20th. So, right around the corner, folks. If you want to get if you're a tile guy and you want to get
like uh a good certification, CTEF uh and the CTI certification is highly
revered in the industry.
[clears throat] So comfort also indicates that we are doing well. So that the topic's a little
bit uh you know it's easy to get comfortable when things are going well.
It's hard to be comfortable. My I think dealers um I think there's a lot of
retailers and dealers who are complacent but not comfortable.
You know what I mean? like they're just they're just not doing a lot about it. They are fearful of change and the
programs that are out there or the softwares that are out there or the the the outlets that are out there for them
to participate in. I believe they are fearful and complacent uh more than just
comfortable. I think a lot of them are not comfortable actually. The the uh the mindset, right? If it
ain't if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. Look at these trainings coming up.
Boom. Go ahead. Sorry. No, you're fine. The mindset about it,
like if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. Um, but just because um the machine
keeps moving and working doesn't mean that it's not broken or going to break
eventually, right? You still need to maintain that. You need to freshen up that car, give it an oil change.
Sometimes you got to get down and dirty, scrub the rims, right? Somebody wants to come and look at it. Um, if you ever
want to give it away, how are you handing it off? There's a lot of different ways to look at it. And I think that that's where the industry is.
We're driving a hooty right now. Um, [laughter] it's working, right? that's
working but and it still gets us from point A to point B and sometimes beyond
but at some point that that hooty has got to be upgraded without the maintenance that you're
talking about without the attention and the the concerted effort to make a
change. I I've met with a lot of people and I'm telling you the the the
appetite to just stay with the status quo is is still there. I I mean I don't know
how painful it has to get or if the tsunami has to hit the shore before you
take cover, but I I talked to a lot of
people in the industry and the complacency is just nauseating how how
willing they are to just stick with the current way until it completely breaks as opposed to say being having any
forethought or any foresight. into saying we know this is going to happen.
Like the age itself is telling us it's not getting better, it's getting worse.
And the then you take all of the
installers and count the um
uh the percentage that is effectively trained and can do the craft to the
industry standard. And I mean, I don't know what the numbers look like, but
it's not good, right? It's not good that so few of of what we call installers are
are not actively educated. And many of the people that watch this show, you
know, agree with us. But how we reach the masses is by you guys sharing this
show in your groups, in your Facebook groups, and sharing the show across your social media campaigns because the word
has to get out there. It has to continue. It has to grow beyond what the huddle is. And our our reach is limited
by your shares, by your participation. So share the show. Don't uh I've got a a
guy that I I used to be in he used to be a mentor of mine and he has a show uh
Andy Purcell and he his saying is don't be a ho don't be a hoe. Share the show.
[laughter]
So here's some new What was that one Daniel? That was the NFCT here. I can just
There you go. another uh three-day certification event in Calhoun, Georgia.
It's gonna be at a state-of-the-art training facility, by the way. Um, so
get your resilient modular installation certification. Go claim it on your VTI and let us know you took it. Um,
actually that'll be ran most likely across our training hub and it'll be automatic anyway. So, go sign up. Uh,
send me that flyer too, Daniel. uh email that to me. Um but guys, let's let's
let's go improve the industry together as a group. Uh let's say that the huddle
did something and the huddle was put here to help people understand just
three guys talking about industry problems and you guys joining us. And
it's been a it's been an honor to sit here Tuesday and and talk to you guys
and have your comments come across. And the more you share the show in your
group chats and your in your group uh social medias uh you know your group
your Facebook groups and such, the the better more reach we're going to get. And hopefully some of the c the crews
out there that know they need to improve will hear just that message just at the
right time and cause them to go get educated. Brother, believe it or not, we need to improve our crews. Like like we've been
we've been uh we are in a position right now to where
we need to improve our crews here too because like we we don't ever get a break, right? like we try to do too much
for too long and we don't ever get a break and we we need to find that time um to do so too. So just so everyone
knows it's not like everyone there's perfect companies out there. We still
have [clears throat] a lot of room for improvement and we still have to improve our crews as well.
We all do, man. But we at least we're brave enough to say it and we're not scared to to take
some action to do it. So, I just realized that they had um the
wrong one linked. I clicked all the way through and that one had the wrong dates on it. So, I I got a different one.
Hey, once you get your uh your AI tools together, I'm interested.
Yeah, baby. See what you got. Well, speaking of uh too comfortable, I
think that uh you know, it's good time to call out the the the ones that are not too comfortable that seem to be
trying to make a little splash trying to uh improve the industry one step at a
time. And that's the training entities, the CFIs, the NASCATs,
you know, the the is college programs. We're we're hoping
to form a continue our relationship with them and and help those new new college
kids. Uh I say college kids, not always, but the new new recruits into the
industry get placed and people like Romero and Jorge and Jose and and uh
Jesus hiring these kids or hiring these new recruits. I keep saying kids, but I am
50. [laughter] I get I get I get to say that to just about anybody anymore except Rand and uh
and Rod von Bush. I still got you guys. So um but the you know the whole purpose
of them all the time and effort that well Ran and and hey these guys put into
the industry. Shout out to the people who are trying to make a difference and not just complaining.
Shout out to you guys. Shout out to to uh Romero for working with the NA uh
NTCA and working to get that education in Spanish. That is all very very like
uh innovative and and risktaking. I mean you're risking your time and your effort
for the use of others and the help of others. So kudos to all the people out there.
And then let me let me add I'm gonna interrupt this guy right here. I'm gonna interrupt you with a shout out to you,
brother. Because of how much effort, time, and money, blood, sweat, and tears
in your career you're putting in to try to make the industry better as a whole, right? like all these other entities you
just mentioned, they're all great on their platform, but there's an individual trying to
bring everybody together to share a platform and to be in the spotlight. And I appreciate everything that you've done
and that you are doing because I know you work very hard on it. Thank you. Thank you, Paul.
Thanks, brother. I appreciate that a lot, man. You don't know. I I really do appreciate that.
I do know, brother. I do know. Well, I mean, you don't know how much it means. I hear you. I see you. love it
and you absolutely love it, right? And the stressful times like and you still come back for more.
[laughter] We're stuck in the industry, guys. So, we we we don't have a choice. So, we're just
we just got to help Paul out and get every all these installers together so that way they can keep on
moving up and not just staying stagnant form together. guys. Uh we've opened up
our ambassador program just to uh to tell you we have, [clears throat]
you know, if you want to be an ambassador for Trade Tap and get the message out on your social campaigns,
just say it right here and I'll I'll get you get you uh set up with a meeting and
we'll get you set up as an ambassador. We got some great ambassadors coming on board. Some of them are on this podcast.
Some of them are commenting on this podcast. We need tile guys. Uh Jorge uh
and uh Romero and you guys. We need we need uh some tile ambassadors. So the
applications are open. You can go to trade-tap.com and click on the ambassadors about and
you can sign up right there or just reach out to me uh paultradeenttap.com
and tell me you want to be an ambassador and I will I will hook you up.
Romero says, "All of you deserve a lot of respect."
Uh, a lot of respect. I try to be here every week because I see what y'all are doing and I thank you all for that.
Thank you, Romero. Man, you're you're a a great guy. Um, and I appreciate all
the comments and and interactions that you have with us here on the huddle. uh
what you guys do on the huddle is um you know it's impactful. It's continuing to
be impactful. So I uh I will reach out to you, Romero.
I assume send me a email if you would. I'll type it in here. I wonder if this
will go in if I just type my I don't know. I haven't done this
before, but let's work.
Shoot me uh there's my email. Um shoot me an email and if you want to be an
ambassador for Trade Tap, let me know. Uh again, we are actively seeking out
good installers who love the trade and can be ambassadors for training and
ambassadors for uh credentiing. And you know, I've always said I like competing
against installers and companies who are good. I don't like competing with uh
installers or companies who um don't know their value. I'd much rather
compete with a highly trained guy than uh somebody who's not. So, yeah, if
you're if you're that type of person, shoot me an email and let's get you signed up to be an ambassador. We'll
send you some cool swag. get your uh VTI uh installer badge with your picture and
a QR code linking to your profile and you can leverage that to go get more
meaningful higher paying uh projects. Set yourself apart from the guys who are not doing anything about their their
career. So all right, [sighs] we just from the industry too
comfortable to getting after it. There you go. Hey, I was I was looking for a
for a logo to put on there, but I couldn't find one, so I just popped it up.
That'll work. What's that guy's name that was doing like those shows where he was going and working? Was that Micro? Right. Or
something. Yeah, Micro. Yeah. So, so I was watching something he was talking on the other day and he said
something that stuck with me. Uh, nil, right? That we have an influx of NLS not
in labor force. [laughter] They don't want to be hands on. So,
don't be uh don't surround yourself with them. You ain't going to get anything fixed around your house. I tell you what,
that's the thing. Someone I mean, Rometo was the the one that mentioned AI and
stuff, right? And with this influx of people to the workforce that
are losing their jobs because of AI, they're going to have to find something to do. and we're kind of at that point
where we're the entry where where we don't need to be
certified and all this stuff. So, there should be a an influx of people who are going to claim that they know how to do
flooring here pretty soon. Well, it happened in uh in uh
a few different times in our our our industry, but you know, COVID caused
that too. Uh, I remember having guys come into our office and say they installed, they were
tile installers. Uh, you kind of chat with them and get to know them and come
to find out they've worked at, uh, you know, a major Boeing subcontractor at a machine shop for the last 15 years, but
they installed before that. So, like, I installed one time with my uncle
in 1994. So, I know that is who you're going to that is who you're going to compete with if and if
you don't have a clear way to separate yourself. Um, you know, and it's we got
a video coming out and I love the line that's in the video that void of of proof, price is the only thing that
matters, right? So without the consumer, whoever you're selling to, without them
having proof that you are more qualified or worth the the value, well then how
how did they how do they uh choose price, right? Like if you tell somebody,
hey, go I want to buy a car. You don't specify nothing. And then they they say,
I'll sell you a car for 13,000. And this other guy says, I'll sell it to you for 12. but you have no idea what kind of
car you're going to get from either one of them. Like, you got to know the information about the skill and
capability for price to become the secondary option. Because if all of a
sudden you found out it's a vintage, you know, GTO for 13 and it's a Subaru,
you know, broke down Subaru Outback for 12, you might make a different decision.
Right. Rollins says that part of the problem in the industry is because there had been so many years without training,
installers that are teaching our installers right now think they're doing it right because it's the way that they
were taught and they just don't know the right way to do things. So he was with a a young
installer that that's how he was because that's how he was taught. So he didn't know that he was doing things the wrong
way until you start going to training. And now, you know, that opens people's eyes.
So, if if you've never been to a training, all you got to do is attend one and attend it with an open mind.
Like, yeah, brother, they can change the spec on us tonight and tomorrow we're doing it the
wrong way. Yeah. Stay in and that's where all the networking happens. It helps you to stay
up to date. like you guys know the value of an of a manufacturer looking at you
as the experts in the industry, right? When new stuff comes out, they'll you're
more likely to be involved uh and be informed. Uh you're just plugged in. And
so many installers are not plugged in. And what Rand just said hearkens back to earlier conversation in the podcast we
were talking about a couple generations being skipped. Well, that is true. Like
couple, you know, overall, not that nobody got trained, but obviously uh
what that what what that creates is then people not learning the the craft
correctly and then passing on their their shortfalls as knowledge. Um, it's
kind of like saying you're expert in physics and then using Google as your only
source of of information. I'm an expert in physics. Watch. I won't spill the water in the bucket. Just
Yeah. Did you know uh galaxy X is 460,000 lighty years away? Because you
Googled it on, you know, you Googled it, but you're not a real expert in physics. You're not a physics. Uh you're not a
physicist. You're just a simple person using Google, right? So getting plugged
in, truly plugged in and becoming an expert is about education, training, and
certifications. Yep. Google gives you a little bit of information, right? But until you're
until you involve yourself and you surround yourself and you are committed
in whatever discipline you're trying to educate yourself, you won't know. You'll just
Well, you don't know when you're being fed BS or not. Right. Right. Google lies all the time. Sorry.
Gives misinformation. Maybe not lies is the right word. Don't go suing me, Google. I don't mean that. I mean,
part of it's the way you ask the question. If you don't even know how to ask the question correctly, you can get
bad information. Yeah. like [clears throat] comes from having source
trusted source information from a entity that knows
like the NFCT or CFI and then you have good source information because they're
plugged in with the manufacturers needs to increase as I said earlier but
plugged in with the manufacturers to stay up to date a lot of times you don't even ask the right question that's why
AI is not the solution uh for everything is because we we don't
even if you don't have a base knowledge to even ask the corre question correctly, you're going to get bad
information back. It's it's going to find whatever information is suitable [clears throat]
for your question, right? Not necessarily specific to your conditions, your problem.
But you're saying got to ask the right questions, right? And that's why even AI they say to stop prompting like
sometimes just you have to end that chat. But now they have the feature where you can go and edit your prompt
instead of prompting again because it's not about what you keep on going. It's
about that original question. You got to brother. I get into arguments with Chad. But dude, that's [laughter]
not what I ain't going to talk to you until tomorrow.
Well, that's called AI hallucination. Right now, AI just wants to please the
human using it. And so it's going to give you an answer. Uh void of truth
source of truth documentation. It just finds whatever it finds. Same same kind
of uh can be garbage on the internet. They
it will pose it as truth, you know. So you get just got to be careful and you got to have some baseline of education
around it. So Rollins turning in. He's gota He says
he's got to go to dinner. He just turned 173. [laughter]
I don't know. He say he's gonna be in Michigan next week, too. So, he's going to have to get a hold of us when he's in town.
Hopefully. Hopefully, he has time. All right, Ran. Enjoy dinner and the rest of you guys. We have come to the
end of the podcast. Thanks for all the great comments. Again, if you're interested in being an ambassador for
Trade Tap and specifically the VTI portion of the Trade Tap, give me uh
either shoot me an email or become uh a leader in the trades and uh let's do
this together as a group, guys. We can uh we can change this industry. Uh join
forces uh an applied group. You have the power behind community is huge and we
have a great community being built in trade tap and the huddle and we are
inviting you to be part of that. So yeah join us
again. Thank you everybody for the comments. Um I'm asking for you to go as
uh Andy Fcell would say don't be a hoe. Share the show. Don't be a hoe. Share the show. Sure. I
I I don't want to I don't want no uh trademark infringements, Andy. Um [laughter]
I was part of his uh original um it was called Arite. So I was a very uh the
very first group of Arte members of his Ray syndicate. And uh so anyway, Andy, I
hope that gives me a little bit of right to to steal that verse for one episode.
Uh that being said, guys, please do share the show. go into your Facebook groups and share it there. Let people
know there's a resource where they can get on, voice their opinions, voice their concerns, questions. We'll give
you a platform to ask and uh we'll do our very best to answer and we don't
know everything. So, we you know sometimes have to plug into other people and uh because we are involved in the
industry, we have a lot of different resources there. So, if we don't know, we'll tell you and we'll also go find
out for you. So join join us in this uh this great uh venture we're on and uh
we're looking forward to working with each one of you and I love I love doing this. I love the huddle. I love you two
and I really do enjoy uh every every Tuesday getting on here. So Mark says we
are training the industry and look for Jumpstart. Yeah, Jumpstart's going to
give you the opportunity as an individual for $99 a year. You can hire
as many of these jump starters as you want. That's unprecedented. Like, go try to get Monster or Indeed to give you a
deal like that. And they'll have full profiles of their of their uh education,
everything we know about them at that point. You'll know about them and you can interview and hire them right there on Jumpstart.
So, boom. All that being said, thank you guys for joining us today. You know,
if you're in I know that uh I think Mark's gonna be Rollins gonna be up in
that area. Go check it go check out the the new place. I need to get up you guys
new digs. And uh we got back out to you at some point, too.
Yeah, dude. It's always fun. Well, and don't forget we got synergy coming up uh with uh CFI
and FCEA. Sorry, all the acronyms FCICA and the
the synergy conference um is coming up. So, keep an
eye out for all the all the social posting around that. We would love to meet some of you guys out there. With
that, I'm going to sign off for this week and we'll see you guys next week. Thank you. All right. See you.
