The Huddle - Episode 212. What Will the Flooring Industry Look Like in 10 Years?
The flooring industry has never stood still, but the pace of change is accelerating.
Advancements in technology, evolving customer expectations, workforce shortages, and new approaches to training are already reshaping the way companies operate. While no one can predict exactly what the next decade will bring, one thing is certain: the businesses that embrace change will be in the best position to lead it.
In this episode of The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose explore what the future of flooring could look like over the next ten years. They discuss the growing role of AI and digital tools, the importance of developing the next generation of skilled professionals, and how education, verification, and innovation will continue to influence the industry. They also share their thoughts on what contractors, installers, retailers, and manufacturers can start doing today to prepare for tomorrow.
The future won't be defined by technology alone. It will be shaped by the people who are willing to learn, adapt, and invest in raising the standard of the trade. Whether you've been in the industry for thirty years or you're just getting started, this conversation is an invitation to think beyond the next project and consider the legacy we're building together.
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There we go. What is up team? Welcome back to the Huddle, the number one podcast in
flooring. We're here every week to help you guys gain forward progress in your career. Simply put, we're here to help
you guys win. For all our new viewers, welcome to the team. What's up, fellas?
What's going on? What's going on, brother? Oh, just on location. Just on location at a job site, few
hours away from the office and hooked into my truck's Wi-Fi. So, let's
see how that works. I mean, it's working pretty good so far. Yeah, better than uh when I try on my
hotspot. Nice. I forgot that the vehicles can have
hotspots to be honest with you. Yeah, I think most of this is a 25
uh or maybe it's 26. Um, but yeah, I just subscribed to it the
other day because I could never my my hotspot wasn't working so well. So, I tried this one. It ended up working. All
right. Anyway, enough of that. Today's sponsors, Pro- Installer Magazine. You
guys want to stay up tod date on installation news, make sure you go
check out Pro- Installer Magazine. They're a good supporter of The Huddle
and we are a supporter of them. So, go check them out. Subscribe to uh they're
they're like you can get their magazine emailed to you every time it comes out.
Uh there's no charge to that, I believe. So, go check it out and uh support those guys over there. They got a lot of great
articles. I think all three of us have written articles in there before in the past. Going to start up writing a few
more here in the near future. So, go check them out and go check out Trade
Tap uh website and uh see our suite of offerings over there. the full software
suite explainer kind of give you an idea of what's going on over there and explain the VTI in a way that uh you
know maybe uh maybe I'm not always so good at
today's topic where will the flooring trade be in 10 years
so I uh I hope we get a lot of interaction today
the Um cuz I can't tell you. I don't know if the guys could tell you. We can hypothesize a little bit.
That's about it. But uh it would be wonderful to know
what you guys think. What do you think it's uh you know where the flooring trade's going to be in 10 years?
Well, I don't know if I out 10 years from now, but maybe five and give a about the best hypothesis I
can. I guess uh I guess it all depends on what you're following, right? like my mood today tells me who gives who cares
my mood tomorrow might be like it looks promising you know what I mean um but uh
the you know it's it's hard to say with with how how quickly um uh technology is is
kind of taking over uh taking over the detail part and not the
install, right? like we still need our hands for the installation, but everybody is swaying more towards the
the technology and trying to use use that, right? But it's a progression.
And I'm saying that because we're not always installing anymore, right? But we are definitely doing our best to adopt a
lot of the the tools that are out there for us now as far as AI and uh Daniel
laid something on my desk yesterday that I got to learn how to use um for measuring. So it's just
where is it for me technology probably where is it for the industry
that is hard to say because not a lot of people are wanting to learn what we do.
Yeah I'm a little biased. I I believe that uh you know
um well I this is supported by my a couple of speeches I've given on a
similar topic but it was more on the AI front. I think that we're going to have to figure labor out and we're we we've
gotten pretty good at relationships. Um, but all this in between part
between, you know, an opportunity and the bid or an opportunity and a quote is
just getting easier and easier and technology handling more and more of that.
Uh, from AI takeoffs are getting really good. AI um out in the field getting a
doing an AI walkth through with your phone and it tell it giving you a quote
that like you could I I did one at my office and this was through Live Switch.
Uh, and it was within a couple it was
within a couple hundred bucks. And all I did is walk into my office with the Life
Switch app uh, and just tell it just I'm just talking to my
phone saying, "Okay, we're going to take this carpet out, this vinyl base out. We're going to put new LVT and new Mill
Works vinyl base to match what's up now. And I that's it. And I made sure to pay
in the whole room. And it gave me a quote for moving it. It gave me the whole details for
Wow. All the cost of moving all the furniture. Gave me deta gave me a a
price to demo, price for like almost
everything. And of course I I fed it a little bit of information on our our standard pricing,
but uh I didn't I didn't do much and it was within a couple hundred of what I
would have actually quoted it and it was on the high side by a couple hundred. So, you know, you can see the day in the
near future where like salespeople are just walking with their phones and saying stuff and the AI
emails the quote to the customer and that whole middle part is is gone. And
so I kind of think that that middle piece of bidding will be if you're not
doing the efficient bidding like an efficiency of bidding then
you are going to be left behind. Mhm.
Difference maker is going to be your labor and the strength of your
installers, the strength of their professionalism and your face to face with the customer.
So relationships and installation I think are going to be the only thing that matter in the near future.
That sounds pretty legit actually. And the the way you said that, it almost sounds like um there's going to be many
more opportunities than there is now because of the ease of use. And then
how do we how do we complete them opportunities if we don't have the skill
set and that's where the labor part comes in at to work on relationship. Well, you got to bring in the young you got to bring in these
younger dudes. Uh you know, Trade Tap has with our training hub several
college programs. We got a really awesome opportunity with the large uh uh
career center for the trades that's going to come online and and feed, you
know, hundreds and hundreds of new trained, lightly trained, but we'll call
them rookies because that's how the VTI will list them. uh brand new people as
rookies, but all these brand new rookies coming into the pipeline for people to
hire, they're going to be the ones that know how to use this technology almost
natively, you know. So, you're going to want to start hiring some of these younger people as they come into the
into the fold. But, you know, I mean,
it's hard for me to I'm just looking at when I started in flooring in doing
takeoffs and stuff like that. In 99 is when I started the company and we were
doing paper takeoffs, you know, with a scale ruler. I mean, it took it took
hours on hours and then a calculator or Excel spreadsheet to add up all the Yeah. ments and then you call for price
like it would take what takes minutes now would take hours if not days in just
in the past. Dude, I remember that. Now you go from onscreen takeoff, which
was a huge leap in my, you know, in our efficiencies
to AI. No more colored pencils. You mean no more colored pencils? No more colored
pencils, highlighters. I had every color highlighter you could get your hands on, dude. You know, and
I still got them. Highlighting, drawing dried out, you know, coloring in drawings so you
can give them to your crews and coloring in multiple sets. Uh cuz back then our
plotter would scan the drawing and print it out, but only print it in black and
white. So, you might as well just print out a bunch of blanks and color in a bunch. I mean, we were I was like a
kindergartener coloring a bunch of drawings up for the cruise. Now, you just it comes out of your program,
whatever you use. We use Measure Square. Um,
and it's already colored and you connect it to a work order on Trade Tap and you
just boom. I mean, they have it. They know exactly what they're installing where. So that
whole process has already went from you know days for a job to
if and that's being you know aggressive but
to just hours maybe and then that's going to change to minutes and it's
already happening. I mean you guys use measure square do you guys use the AI takeoff?
So do we you know not on every job. It doesn't work on every job, right? It
depends on how clean the drawings are and stuff like that, but when it works, it's pretty good.
Yeah. It still saves time. Yeah. 100%. So
something that would take you a few hours to draw and and drop product into, it can do in, you know, minutes. And
so that that whole thing is getting, you know, technology is kind of overtaking
that. So, what's going to be left to what we do, right? And that's where Rometo chimes in
right here, too. He's like, all this stuff is already happening, right? He uses AIS for transcriptions on site
visits and then has some agents process the information to connect it with his
project. And I mean, I'm working on one right now,
right? shout out. I mean, I'm working on one right now where they're like, "Uh, it's really budget sensitive." So, you go over all
the pro the products and then you're you're contacting your reps and you're like, "What what can we do here?" And
then I just drop everything in there and tell AI to compile whatever I want it to
like give me give me the best stuff for the best price point. You know, I'm not
trying to go super duper cheap and have the the installers be all super angry
and stuff, right? But it's like where where can we put this and
what what's the best bet here? And it in Excel it's just boom,
you know, different worksheets on the bottom for every material and then the pricing and how it compares, how much
it's going to save. It's uh like you said something that would take hours
before it's just accumulating all the information giving it to which is
essentially an employee that you would pay to do something right and it's like here do this for me while I keep on
working. Yeah. And a lot of the platforms are you
know they've introduced co you know basically like co-pilot even AI open AI
with uh chat GPT has um works a work mode
you can connect your emails to it and all this other stuff like there there's
a lot you can do um but for our discussion here because
we've had plenty of technology ology, you know, um, podcast. This one is like,
what is that going to do to our business? What is this going to do to in installers? And everything that I have
kind of consumed from the AI world is you know a lot of the big companies uh your
Amazons and your Boeings and your big manufacturers are talking about a 5 to 10 year plan of
full um 100% automation in their factories
fully AIdriven and robot performed.
So that's that's where all the money's going. You know, the trades
to build a robot to come do our stuff. Like the the the payback isn't there for
for the companies to build that, right? They're building these big massive like
I seen a kind of a it's not a meme but it's like a rendition of what a airplane
cuz here in Witchah we are known as the air capital because we build so much of
the airplanes uh particularly the um Boeing airplanes but also some Airbus
stuff Airbus engineering is here all the subcontractors that build the wings and
the the windows and the latches and the seats and the carpeting happen here in
Witchah. So, we're known as Air Capital. And you know, if you've ever been in one
of these manufacturing plants, they did this years ago with painting. They take it into a paint booth and it's it's all,
you know, super clean and they paint the fuselage by robots do that. Now they're
talking about like all the rivets, all that, the whole thing being done by
taking the the uh raw materials or the raw
parts off of the production line that was stamped and made by robots
to this room and then it's like it rivets everything. It does the whole thing. So my point is is that that's
where all the money's going and the trades are pretty safe. appears for
15 years before they they get to, you know, to us. But
I've seen uh some pretty funny AI, you know, pretty funny with uh trying to set
tile and different things and and yeah, that's that's just fine for a a big open
room and and if you had that scenario, uh spreading thin set and stuff. It's
kind of funny. one was like skim coating a floor with a squeegee on the bottom of
the deal. I mean, there's still it it's got a ways to go before it ever really
replaces this the trades. That's my thought. So, if that's true,
then what is going to matter is how well we install because all that, like I said,
all the bidding and all that stuff and pricing is going to get commoditized as well. Meaning, it's going to be hard for
you to beat somebody else's pricing. So, how are you going to win outside of
pricing? That is the big question right there.
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, so go ahead. No, you go. I've been talking.
I was gonna say, so um I don't know where I heard it last week, but somebody said that
in the trade, this is trade specific, right? Like I don't just need someone for the the work to who knows how to do
it. They also need to understand technology and how to use it. Otherwise, uh great hand skills don't mean nothing
if they don't know how to use the the technology that the the company is adopting. Um, and yes and no. Uh, but
that just the whole lookout for 10 years is, you know, as as flooring installers,
what we're we're we're going to have to be scientists, right? We have to know everything about the concrete and everything up right now. We're going to
have to learn how to use all of the uh technology that's at our disposal. Um,
there is not one question that we can't find an answer to. um essentially online
or using um artificial intelligence um well information is being commoditized
and right one of the uh deals we're doing for a client is we're building a knowledge
uh base for them that will tie into all their um tie into all of their
manufacturers every manufacturer that's in their showroom room and it'll be based off of
their product knowledge or product installation guidelines and their
product data and their MSDS sheets. And it's all fed to this single bot that
will allow this customer to be able to ask any
question about any material in it that it sells and get a a
truthbased answer. Not the problem with AI right now from an information standpoint is it still wants to please
humans. So if you ask it a question, it'll a lot
of times if you haven't had it lie to you or kind of stretch the truth for you, um just trying to make you happy,
uh you haven't used it enough because it'll go out and say some stuff and you're like, "Wait a second, that
doesn't seem right." And you get in the product data and it's not right. It's because it's it's hallucinating. it's
giving you an answer because it can't find a answer. But people are that's getting fixed too,
you know, and and uh you know, narrow AI agents that
are restricted and have guard rails on where it gets its information from is
what companies are kind of wanting these days. I mean, imagine if any product
line that you sell, you could just literally say, "What's trial size for this? What's a preferred uh you know,
what's the preferred uh adhesive? Uh here's my moisture readings. Which adhesives should I use with this LVT?
And it's all based on their product data. All based on the manufacturers's
recommendations and all that. Like that's what's coming too, you know? It's just I know. What the hard thing is is
getting it set up for yourself where you can put multiple different manufacturers in there and
then start asking it questions like what's better in this scenario and what can I use for this and like
well having it having a truth base is the key you know and not allowing it to
go to the internet to get answers um
because then it'll go on Facebook and read everyone's comments and then who knows what it's going to come up with.
Well, that's just a thing. Right now, it will regurgitate
what it reads. Um, almost as truth. Maybe not quite as truth, but almost as
truth. And it's just, look, a lot of dumb people have posted a lot of dumb
things on on fa on the internet, social media. Yeah. Just
everywhere and otherwise. So it's about as smart as the average,
you know, comment that you see on Facebook or one of the social sites. So
my point to all that is just that information they say is being
commoditized. It'll eventually you being an expert
like you kind of uh said there Jose about
you know you got to be an expert in this and expert that that might go away. I mean, think about it. You may not have
to know all that stuff anymore because
informationized you, right? And and if it's there, the I guess the knowing and having the
literature and the information uh readily available to you doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to
execute well either. Uh, and that's where the experience and the hands-on
and relation to being able to have a a a good conversation with your customer and
making them feel good about having some proof that you're as good as you are is going to be big in the future. I'm
betting a lot on it. Everyone knows about trade tap and the the VTI. I'm betting my whole my whole business on
the fact that that people want to know the level of quality that you're capable
of. They want to know what your skill and ability is because as information and
um information is is commoditized and so is
pricing meaning people almost everybody's able to give pricing immediately and quickly. And you know
now now you go from having two competitors to five. uh how does the
customer know you're any different or know you're any better? And I think that's going to be a big piece of it
too, frankly. that's going to be a huge piece of it and and that's where um
understanding the the technology and then putting that accompanying that with a good hand skill and then uh obviously
trade tap coming along and creating the VTI is going to in 10 years dude that's
going to put people above everyone else if they invest into
themselves now and see what the future and what the trades has in store. not
just us but the trace period. Um and as you know in 10 years in where
where's inflation going to be? Where's dollar and cents going to be? People are not going to want to just hire whomever
is the the cheapest. They're not going to be I don't think they're going to look at that. Some don't already don't
look at that. They look at what is who is most qualified, who who has presented themselves the best and and who has the
best track record that is available to me. And that's in 10 years that's going
to be huge. Um well even even sooner even five years
from now I think it's a big deal. But what I what you said kind of put it you
know made me think one of the reasons price is even an
issue today is because void of pricing they or void of proof of skill. They
don't have anything else. customers don't have anything else to go off of. So why wouldn't they choose the
cheapest? Like you know the you get a line of cars up,
you're going to pick the one that you like the most relationship and the cheapest that you like the most.
But that's because you don't if you don't know what any of those cars
performance are, you're only going to judge off of the the the aesthetics of it. Do you really like it and the price?
Yeah. We have Amazon or T-Mu. Which which one? Exactly.
You know, which brings me to another thing, too, is I we had a client call the office. I just got back and I picked
up the phone and one of Daniel's clients actually um and he was like, "Yeah,
there's a a discrepancy on your quote." I was like, "What do you mean?" He was like, "Yeah, we we have to fight back on
your quote." I said, "Well, it's a quote. I don't understand." He was like, "But we we just really don't like what's
on there." I said, "Well, you don't have to hire me." He's like, "Well, can you can you revise it?" I'm like, "I look, I
don't know what you're talking about, so give me a minute. let me open up the computer because right now it sounds like you're telling me to lower our our
price so that way you can hire us. And he was like, "No, no, no, no. It's not like that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm
saying that wrong." He's like, "We've worked with you guys in the past. We've been working with Daniel, but the clients is complaining. There's
something on the quote that isn't accounted for in their eyes." And I was like, "Oh, well, why don't you just say
it like that? Like, did you tell me to lower my price?" And we can fix that. Yeah. So, I opened up opened up the the
computer and hey, you know what? CRM came in handy. Everything was there. All the pictures were right there. I went
right into Daniel's project. Pulled up the first picture I pulled up and I was like, dude, here's your answer, right?
And he was just like, I see it in the pictures now. I have the pictures. I'm so sorry. And he started
laughing. He was just like, you were really just going to tell me. Well, that's a great story to show how
how technology dealt with that, though. I mean, stuff in order. Marion, it's
and letting people know cuz I I it's hard when you talk to people that don't know
about the industry, why you got to do things and then they don't understand and then they just pass it off and then you got to explain the same thing over
and over again and it's like man. So, so that's where I was going with that, too. And that's, you know, technology was
very involved, but the fact that he just didn't know and it wasn't explained to
him and it wasn't shown to him, right? And he was just like,
I am so glad that that we called you guys because you explained that way better. I understand now. You're using
this material to fa to repair what we can't see so that way you can install
and fix what we can. And I was like, "Yeah, dude. There's a system." And he's like, "I get it. I get it." And and
well, that's where the relationship comes in, right? Well, that's not Daniel's relationship, right? But I think Daniel was
Daniel was fed up with them because they kept calling and asking the same questions. And uh I think it took me saying, "Well,
don't hire us, bro." Like, "Hey." And he's like, "Whoa, whoa, no. Not what I
was trying to say." like it's one of those property management companies and they give you a fee to go
out and look at it and then you quote it. And yesterday finally I
was like, I'm not spending any more time on this. You guys either find some I'm
going to build out this $100 and call it a wash and y'all can find someone else. I don't want to deal with it anymore
because I've explained myself to too many people in emails over the phone and
that's just that's this is why I can't deal with residential.
You and me bro both brother. Hey, you know what? It just took a couple minutes, but it was uh Daniel's
pictures and the information he had on Measure Square and then on the um CRM
like it told it told the story and I was able to pick it up. And that's the experience, right? That was experience.
That wasn't a piece of paper telling me what to do. That was my installation experience that put those together
really quick to hopefully save a potential project and and create a better relationship with a client.
That's end of the story on that one. Well,
kind of got down a rabbit hole for a second. Yeah. But it's it's the it's exactly still
what we're talking about. It's it's how is all this going to play out? Um,
for whatever reason I can't see comments on my side, but if you guys in the audience could tell us like what what is
the what is the um 10 year, you know, I it's
hard to say 10 years. What is a fivey year? What's it look like in five years? You know, a good exercise. Let's think
back five years. That's what I was going to say. look back on what what was going on a few years ago, right? Even and then just
like Rometo says right here, certifications um are a great way and I think that uh
people installers in particular are going to have to get more technical with everything because we're eliminating a
lot of that in between, right? And there's well it's the only way a company's gonna
stand out is by is is what I think is by the quality of their labor. So like
Romero said and like you were saying certifications and training that we've been harping on
for five going on five years, four years, whatever it's been almost five
going on five years anyway. We've been harping about this and it is it's going
to be overnight people are going to start choosing the the
most verifiable quality person they can get their hands on. Whether that's through certifications, whether that's through
your VTI, whether that's through a manufacturer vouching for you or you
being highly recommended from another customer that that they respect that customer's like opinion about. That is
the stuff that's going to get you hired. The price is going to be the that's and
that's the only way you're going to be able to get a higher price. You know, it's been that was my pet peeve the
entire time I installed was getting beat by somebody who had no
qualifications whatsoever and it was price that bothered me more than anything. It's a little different as a
as a on the company side because then you're getting into like can you do that
size of job and that kind of stuff like they start to consider your finances and
all that. Can you bond it? Are you fully insured? All of that stuff. But,
you know, man, you just brought something up that I I didn't even I didn't even connect the dots till right
now. You go ahead with that comment, Daniel, first. So, Kenneth says, you know, how about 15
years of poor training? Things are changing and they do. they have to change because like I said, everything
is just getting more and more technical in the certifications I've been in when they're like, "Oh, that you guys don't
need to know this information." And then I'm like, "Hold up. We're the last line of defense here, man. We're we're
technically the ones that are supposed to know everything." Yeah.
So, um, his comment along with what you were just saying, Paul, is, uh, you
know, my son, uh, went to, uh, work with me today. I went and did a a demo as a
favor for one of their companies that that we work for, uh, labor only. They called me last night scrambling,
supposed to have a job done, and they were ripping this rubber flooring up two inches at a time with a
red shaker box. And and so I loaded up the trailer, got my son from weight training this
morning, and we went to the project and and I seen um a company that we've worked with pull out of a out of a
driveway. Now, this is this is very very high-end homes, right? Like we're we're we're in the tens of millions of dollars
in these these homes right now. And I've seen this company pull out a drive and he was like, "Hey, I've seen that
before." And I was like, "Yep." He's like, "Do you guys work for them?" I said, "Absolutely not." I said, "And you know what? it hurts my feelings that
they're pulling out of a house right now that's like that because of the work that we've come behind and fixed and the
work they continue to do. And he was like, "Well," and this is my son, 13 years old. "Well, how come you're not
getting the work that they're getting?" I was like, "Well, I don't have the team and the time to go make the connections
to go tell people how good I am at something I don't know how to do, so that's why I'm not getting all of that
work." And uh and he was just like, "Well, how can they stay in business
if they do bad work?" I was like, "Because not every job is a loss, son.
Not every job. And if you make just enough to stay afloat and you stay around long enough, some things uh
people still hire you. You become a familiar name, a familiar face, and then marketing and social." And he was like,
"Marketing?" Oh. He was like, "Oh, like the supermarket." And I'm like,
"No, dude. Like everything." Like what you do on your phone, you see all these videos and all these pictures. You're like, "Dad, look at this. Look at this
helicopter. Look at this radio control thing. I want to buy this." All these things that you don't need, but you saw like three cool ads in a row
telling you how awesome it was and seeing these kids smile, right? So now you do that to adults with furnishings
and all that. That's what That's how you do it. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of that. I
that's what I think's going to go away. I just think that people are going to
um I mean you still got to get in front of the customer. So there's still an element of marketing yourself and and
all of that. I I think you have to be seen. So
be get good at getting attention and get good at executing on the relationship,
the the opportunity and get good at your labor and the labor side. I mean, we
just harp on it every week. So it feels like a broken record, but I just think that's the the end of the day.
Like I said, we're we're taking all these people that used to be in positions. Just look at insurance.
There's an insurance company over here. Huge. They cut 40% of their workforce
because of AI. Those people have to go find something
else to do, right? And then like you said, if you're not proven who you are, how are you going to
get jobs? And then everything just always is now it was before it was
everyone's got to go to college. And now everyone's like, man, we need to get more trade schools up and running. We
need to teach people how to build again. I can tell you there is a v there's a big desire for the our training hub
which is a piece of our software and we are placing that
like it is uh it is a big piece because it it's kind of like a transcript for
the this the skilled trades. It it follows into your VTI and follows you.
You make a good point, Daniel, that the the
all these people are going to need something to do. One, you know, they got to go somewhere. If the skilled trades
are still around, our shortage is no longer going to be a shortage. It's
going to be truly what you've said so many times on this podcast. Yeah, there there will be a shortage of
skilled quality guys, but there will there will cease to be a shortage of
someone that can come to your house and do your your carpet or your LVT or something. It's going to be the guy that
worked at some manufacturing plant that installed the click LVT in his house.
And so, you know, when he gets laid off or let go uh from Amazon or, you know,
this insurance company, he's going to be slapping a sticker on the side of his truck and going out and competing with
the good installers. So, you know, separation. Um I think that even retailers are going
to realize in the next couple of years that labor is not a resource to be uh uh
you know or like an inconvenient re um an inconvenient cost to depress. It's
going to be a resource to invest in.
I I believe that's going to be the change and I I already see it kind of happening. Uh but I I think that is the
best way to put it. It's no longer a cost to suppress.
Okay. Retailers about the labor your your
labor making money. You know, it's no longer going to be a a
cost to suppress. It's going to be a resource to invest in and it may be your
most valuable resource. And you say that I kind of going off here, but you know,
a lot of people say that in their on their websites, but they don't really mean it. They really just wanna uh, you
know, hoard the guys that they know are good, make, you know, keep them under
their their uh, you know, shadow, not let them ever be recognized or
or, you know, keep them suppressed and so that nobody else will snag them
kind of thing. It's I just think that there's going to be an influx of the labor and
we have to do a really good job of making sure we're training, tracking, and giving credit and that the guys that
are good are able to prove that they're good. Whether that's putting all your certifications on your card or stickers
or, you know, the VTI, keep saying it, is the easiest way to deal with it. But
we're talking, you know, 10 years. And if you look back, I mean, it was just a little over 10 years, but coming out of
the recession, it was kind of the same thing, right? We were looking at
all the guys who were doing it, a lot of them dropped out, couldn't
survive, right? And then the ones that did, once things started picking back up, we were having to deal with the same
thing where it's like everyone is now a flooring installer and then what are you
going to do to separate yourself out of that pack and it's just going to be the same kind of the same thing.
Yeah, we already had a taste of it because I remember back then uh every residential company in Witchaw
all of a sudden was doing commercial and bidding on work and you know just like
like people are going to go where the opportunity is at. Ran says he has no more room on his card
for any more certifications. Yeah, I uh gotta flip it over right there, Rand.
Gotta put them on your underwear. Get two cards. Yeah, get two cards. Get your
certification card and then hand them a business card with all two cards and and uh
Well, I don't know. In 10 years, it's going to be different. If I look back 10
years, today's 2026, 2016, we were just starting really to adopt
the onscreen takeoff. Uh, you know,
just really starting to do all of these,
um, you know, take on CRM and this kind of thing. The industry itself
hasn't changed much, which scares me because eventually it changes. Some some
industries just get held back, held back, and they hold themselves back. We've caused a lot of this ourselves as
as you know, an industry, but and then all at once it happens, you know, and
that's a little scarier because it's harder to adapt to an all at once thing as opposed to gradually getting better.
Um, man, I am getting whitewashed out. Sorry guys, I'm in my truck and I gota the sun's starting to come out.
Pasty Paul. Yeah, with this you just made me You just made me think
of something. Are 10 years ago till now? Are we are we building the industry topheavy, right?
Are we are we topheavy right now where we're focus obviously was trying to make it easier in the office to get more
competitive more more projects on the the backlog versus become more efficient
and and better and more knowledgeable installers. Are we hitting are we hitting a stride now where we're going to kind of try to meet in the middle and
then is that in 10 years is that going to fill in? I think I think so. Right. But it's I
think it's people like us that are kind of pushing ourselves there and then letting people under us,
so to speak, right, that that are the installing right now like, "Hey guys, you need to learn as much as
you can right now." Yeah, there's a good possibility that I
mean we certainly sell more flooring
than can can properly be installed
properly, right? Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to say that correctly.
We sell as an industry way more flooring than can properly be installed. Now
somehow it gets installed but I don't know the current numbers but uh in 2022
or 23 the failures flooring failures were at $3.2 billion
that year. So that's a lot. That's almost about 8% of
7% or so of the value of that flooring
of the whole flooring industry. Right. Mike Mike commented on there. I was going to do Rometo first right
here. He said that even this year he's noticed a huge shift in the industry. And this is, you know, based on just
residential because homeowners are asking questions that they've never asked before, bringing up antsy
standards, right? And like I don't even think some installers know what these
standards are. Um, waterproofing methods, expansion joints, product compatibility, installation techniques,
and it's because of AI. They're doing they're plugging everything that they want to know into AI before they even
start talking to anyone. So, they have these questions in their back pocket. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big thing that that
was uh brought up on another conversation I was in where the uh
consumer the the purchaser is more knowledgeable
not true knowledge but they have more knowledge than because or more
information I should say uh than they've ever had and they'll say
hey I'm doing this XYZ flooring with this XYZ. What what else should I
be concerned with and ask the installer about? Well, it's just like um so the
information that that a client has is like this is I learned a long time ago
that if I show up to a car dealership with a letter that says I'm already pre-approved, I'm more apt to get what I
want and not beat around the bush and call someone's when it's one of
those salesmen. Um, right. And they're always happy to see that it's an easy sale. If if they have what I want, then
it's easy. And serve. What we're talking about is a little bit like the car business. Uh, when Carfax
came out, and you know, I've I've compared the VTI as a Carfax for your installer. Yeah.
Right. Because the the Why do you get a Carfax? Why did it actually happen?
Because the dealerships didn't want it to happen. Just like really the retailers, I'm telling you right now,
our biggest uh opponent in this industry are retailers
like period. They they don't want the VTI to succeed. I and maybe that's a
strong they're worried about the VTI succeeding because they're worried about the installer getting
the recognition or the getting position where they are they don't need the retailer anymore,
right? Yeah. They're scared that they're not going to be needed anymore. And that's real scarcity thinking. I see no I I
think there's going to be more people wanting to come into showrooms even if they're buying online that there there's
still people want to touch and feel stuff. That's why there's still, you know, uh opportunities out there. You
may have to change your business model and start offering to sell your products online as well. But the the the point is
is that the re the retailers are are starting to
uh understand I think that labor is going
to have to get better. Um and that homeowners are more knowledgeable and
they're asking more questions than ever. they know more than ever because they're
they got the information right at their fingertips. Um I mean it it's
and the ability for somebody to BS a customer is going away,
you know, one that's kind of what So I'm going to get to some of these comments. So, Ken says, um, and this was talking
about just the information being there and then you not being able to just tell the
homeowner things or and stuff like that. I believe it's a self-inflicted money grabs for installers and inspectors. So,
because of how much knowledge is just out there now.
Yeah, those days are almost over, right? Yeah, those days are almost over. And then, you know, going back to the the
retailers, it's, you know, the I think Mike's comment here is just talking
about you can't use their subs. Basically saying, uh, just getting more
people well known, right? And then, well, I
want you to stay here with me. And that's kind of how it is right now. Well, it's been said to me that that a
lot of retailers package um how how was it said? It was like
dependency is being repackaged as loyalty. So, they'll call it a loyal sub, but the sub doesn't have any
opportunity to go elsewhere. And loyalty implies that you have
uh that there's competition. your your your old lady's uh loyal or you're
loyal. It doesn't matter if you're on an island in the in the middle of nowhere and
you're the only two there. That's not loyalty. You know, loyalty is that
there's other options, but I'm loyal to you because you treat me right. You take care of me and I take care of you and
that's why you're loyal to me. And that's the relationship I think that uh
dealers, us included, at my flooring company as well as retailers are going
to, you know, they got to get good at taking care of and really having a good relationship with their uh installer
base and grower base. Yeah. And then he also like just
about manufacturers in general, right? what the next product is going to be.
They're printed floors, brother. They're even print how 3D printed floor on site. Look at just what's what's been
changing, you know, these past few years. I mean, 10 years ago, we would have been talking probably about LBT
everywhere. And now anytime someone is asking anything, they're going back to laminate. And then you look at sheet
vinyl and now it's going to nonPVC. It's like, what's going to be that next big
thing in the next 10 years? And I even have heard that um
there's been a huge push for carpet. Like I mean from the allergen standpoint and
keeping your house temperature stuff, that kind of stuff, carpet's made a
little bit of a comeback. I heard I'm not in residential world, so I don't know. I can't speak to that as fact. Uh,
but I'm sure there's some guys on here that could uh say that better than, you
know, attest to that. Yes or no? The technology in the carpet has come a long way. Let's just say that.
But I do wonder what's going to be, you know, cuz LVT once it hit like a it kind
of hit like a brick, you know? I mean, it like through a glass window, it
exploded once it got known because it was around for quite a while. But I'm sure you guys kind of remember the days
when it was Amtico and Cintiva and that was about it. And now everybody
everybody has an LVT. Hell, there's tile companies that got LVT, you know, like
everyone has an LVT. So that's it. We got to come be the first one to have
LVT. I wonder what's it called? Um to have dimensionally stable 3D printed floors,
printer floor on site. What pattern do you want? We got to be the first. Well, that's where like Kenneth right here is
saying that Amazon is selling SPC and based on uh the current lack of
qualified everything, it's a race to the bottom. And it's just people won't
survive. And yes and no, because it's the DIY
push because the the technology and the AI explains it in a way where people
think that they can just, oh, I can I can do that. I can watch this YouTube and do that. And that's where you start
getting a lot of calls where people are like, "Yeah, I thought I could do it, but I can't." But that's also where you get the calls
where it's like, "Hey, I already have half of this done, so can you just come and finish for me?" Why am I going to pay you that much
money when I can go ahead and do something I have no idea what the hell I'm doing by myself?
I I just because that more people are selling a thing doesn't mean that the
best won't still rise to the top and the good a good retailer I think will be
around for a long time as long as they are a good retailer and do a good job and take care of the customer and do so
what's a big piece of that the biggest piece probably is making sure it's installed properly like That's the
longterm biggest piece of a of a flooring cell. And um
you know, there's so much value in the guys that are out there, the guys and gals out there working and putting stuff
in. You know, I I I
still think that when when things go wrong, people need somebody to go to.
And that's where retailers being good problem solvers and good customer
service are still going to be around because all those people buying off of Amazon or something like that, they get
some guy to install it and it doesn't go right and they have nobody to call and
like complain and get their their problem
solved. they that would be just what I would call a
short-term trend if it ever takes off that way because people want to have
somebody to call and say, "Hey man, my truck I just bought it from you and it's
doing this, you know, or whatever." Like could it's it's like buying a brand
buying brand new vehicles off of Facebook Marketplace or something from some random individual, you know?
Yeah, it's not always you're you're right. You Well, that's where the the
in-person thing comes in handy, right? You have a in-person expert that you can talk to in real time, face to face, and
get a good relationship with them. Right. Right. and get and get good get feedback like um who are they talking to? I said
I I really like to meet people face to face and have conversations with them face to face on certain things because
their facial reactions and everything else tells the story that the emails and texts or a phone call can't tell. And um
I I don't think I'm ever going to veer away from that. that I have better connections when and I
feel better about any project whether installed or sold or anything when there
is a face to face and a handshake right like maybe it's just me I don't know but
that's just I just feel like the opportunities are are greater that that that they're going to
trust us to to solve their their uh flooring uh issues rather than on the
phone and telling them what I know or telling them what we can do instead of showing them and shaking their hand and
looking at the problem. Well, until there's no environmental,
you know, like concerns like and flooring's made
perfect and it can just come out of a back of a hot truck and be put into a
house and the floor doesn't need leveled because they've got new some new system
that the house has always got a perfect substrate and the concrete is always
perfect and you don't have to grind or or level or do anything and you don't
need to worry about moisture because all these flooring products just solve all the problems and and all you got to do
is blink and it installs perfectly, right? No prep needed. Have problems is my point. You're still
going to need experts and people who know how to solve problem because just because you have information does not
mean you're good at solving problems. You got to be a problem solver still. We've we already know that AI didn't
just come yesterday. People's had the information and before that it was YouTube and Google and like people had
the information. Not everybody's able to problem solve and take care of a
customer. This idea that the retailers and dealers are going to go out of business because Amazon is selling is
horse puppy. Amazon. Try to call Amazon and tell them your SPC failed.
You know, I I don't call them to track your package. What are you talking about? Like, come on. I think there's always
going to be a place for professionals in our business or at least in the next 10 years. So, all right, guys.
Like, what's that? I got a couple comments from Instagram real quick. Uh, pilot says, "Uh, a good
install crew is so important." That's just a statement, not a question. And then he also just says that uh
installers get the short end of the stick when it comes to getting what they need and things done right. But again,
that's something that if you're keeping track of things with all this technology at your fingertips,
it's you start asking questions before you even get these projects. So that way you you
have that information. Well, I thinkers are starting they're they're starting to
that's starting to roost. I think wants to know if there's any tile guys here.
Any tile guys on here? Jorge has been like our tile connector. I know, right?
Going to uh to coverings. He's had a couple of really great podcasts. If you
uh are Spanish speakaking native person and really want to consume the huddle in
a in in Spanish Jorge does a great job running our uh
the the huddle for the Spanish speakers man you got to check allegedly I don't know what he says but yeah I believe you
yeah so even Romeo has uh a few certifications in the tile industry too
and uh Oh so that's his partner holds him and
he's a project manager. He has four installers that have certifications
certification tests next month. That's awesome. Great job. Look, in the future, if you're an
installer that is very knowledgeable and you can help the the sales team, whether you're working as an employee or sub for
for a store, you become invaluable. You are helping them become better at sales
as well. So just that's food for thought for a 10y year goal if that's what you
want to do. floor pilot pilot also asked if we have a a spreadsheet to confirm details before the bid because he's he
knows we say that we all do uh quite a bit of commercial
and I know I've seen Paul's spreadsheet and then with us our our CRM kind of
mimics that where you can actually confirm all the details pricing color
selections stuff like that. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, uh, we are 10
after and I want to tell everybody thank you for the comments. This this type of topic really needed those comments
because we're just three guys that are giving our ideas and uh, love that you
guys really got in there and participated today. Uh, don't forget Pro Installer Magazine. Check them out. And
Trade Tap, go check out the the VTI. If you want to check out the trade tap
website, it's just trade-tap.com. And we will catch you guys next week.
Thank you guys so much.
