The Huddle - Episode 182 - Wrapping up 2025 - Our Favorite Moments
Before we head into 2026, the guys are hitting pause to look back on an unforgettable year.
In this special episode of The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose revisit their favorite moments, most memorable conversations, and standout episodes from 2025. From big industry discussions to meaningful insights and a few laughs along the way, this episode is all about reflecting on the journey and the community that made it possible.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
The episodes and conversations that made the biggest impact
Moments that challenged, inspired, or surprised the hosts
Lessons learned throughout 202
How these experiences are shaping the road ahead into 2026
Whether you’ve been listening all year or are just catching up, this episode is a celebration of growth, connection, and forward progress in the flooring industry.
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At The Huddle, we’re all about driving Forward Progress—empowering seasoned installers, contractors, and flooring enthusiasts to grow, innovate, and lead in their craft. Whether you’re looking for real conversations, actionable insights, or inspiration to take your career to the next level, The Huddle is your home for real discussions that matter.
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Please visit our new website! https://thehuddle.team
Welcome back to the huddle, the number one podcast in flooring. We are here every week to help you guys gain forward
progress in your career. Simply put, we're here to help you win. For all our new viewers, welcome to the team.
What's up, fellas? A year is done.
I know. It's like we just started this year yesterday and now it's already done. I feel like we did this not too many
weeks ago and it's been a year. So today we're just doing a year in review.
Today's sponsors are Live Switch and a
quick plug for Live Switch. They are um we're starting to use their software and
uh it's pretty freaking cool. You should check it out. cost you nothing to go check it out. So, go check it out and
see if it can do some wonders for your quoting and for your business uh
particularly in the installation world tracking. It's got all kinds of cool stuff in there.
And of course, the uh Trade Tap verified trade index, the VTI, our other sponsor
for the day. Just um quick update on that. We'll be we're right on schedule
to go live at the first of the year. So, we'll be opening back up signups to the
um to the uh platform. Uh it's it's not really closed, but because we're
transitioning over to Trade Tap and uh the hammer rating is gone. It's now the
VTI. Uh we've kind of slowed that down. So, be ready. Right after first year,
we're going to get busy, folks. It's going to be awesome. And
that is it for our sponsors today. And we are just doing some fun stuff today.
We're going to look back on some of our favorite episodes. Maybe not
episodes, but I kind of kind of boiled it down to to favorite
conversations. Even some of that is is um you know, a whole episode. I've got a
lot of little conversations throughout the year that I've enjoyed. What about you there, Mr. Jose?
Um, there's always a lot of conversations I enjoy, right? And it,
you know, I did I did go through yesterday and I started watching videos and it's like
there isn't one week that the word education,
get educated, doesn't come out of our mouth. Education and training, baby.
Oh, yes. I was like, man, we probably should have just just did that. Like, how who said it more, you know, and just
tallied that up. But, um, yeah, I anytime you learn something is a
highlight. Yeah. I got to say, you know, being part of the the huddle is um a real been a
real pleasure for me and and I took a lot of notes and what I noticed
in taking the notes is I got I kind of gravitated to where I was learning. Uh
which was kind of cool. I just watching episodes and I writing down notes and such and kind of found myself like, "Oh,
I like that." And it's typically when I was learning something. So, um, yeah, we
we've been I also noted that we talk like even in some of the episodes that
are farthest away from training, which not many of them are, we still end up
going there. Nate says, "Is this a Kool-Aid and
popcorn party episode?" But I think it's a how there's a mute button right on
your microphone kind of episode.
Every time you cough, are you still cough? Are you still sick?
Oh yeah, dude. Bro, I told you I died three times this week. Probably four.
Yeah. Yeah, that fever I couldn't shake it. And I yesterday I thought I was good.
Like, oh, I feel nauseous. Next thing you know, I'm like, let me take my temperature again. So I, you know, broke
out the rectum thermometer and my temperature again and I was almost 103 again, but I was at
104 almost 105 for two days solid and then between 101 and 104 for two days.
Yeah. So it's like five days of fevers. Till the season. Yeah. I
Yeah, that's everyone over here in Michigan. I am all robo tussened cough drop and
whatever else I could put in there right now. That's what I got. You got it all.
Feel like my voice is real extra raspy today though, so I apologize. Uh it's good for for uh it's good for uh
radio. That's what I hear. Yeah.
Well, I took some notes. I thought, you know, one of the one of the things that
was kind of interesting was um
cadence across the episodes. Um, and I just kind of
wrote what we believe based on what our episodes say. And it's installation.
This is what I came up with. Installation professionals should act like professionals. This means seeking
out training and certification in your trade, properly applying your skill and
knowledge to the betterment of the project in your profession overall.
That's my summary of all of our episodes. That's like that's what we're going to
keep on talking about, too. Yep. Well, it's definitely the rally cry we got to have. So, did you guys get
through um do do you remember any of the episodes that particularly stood out to you?
Well, I told you I went like it was a lucky guess went on there and I was like, I'm just going to go back 32
episodes and it was 2024 and re reflecting, right? And I was like and I
think I text you guys uh that yesterday, but um I I wanted I tried to skim
through a lot of them and like all right, maybe I'll remember what we talked about. and I just happened to
stop on like education and training and like every time I stopped that's what we were talking about.
So this Well, um, as usual, these these episodes
also fall right before TC. And I see Kevin's asking, is everyone planning on
going to Ty? What are you looking forward to seeing or getting done there? Well, I was actually waiting um for like
a Venmo payment from Kevin or something because he said he was sponsoring me to go to Ties this year. I think
Kevin's sponsoring the huddle, you said to go to T. Everyone. Everyone.
Uh yeah, we'll be there. Kevin, um anybody else jump in and and do the
comments? And just to honor the question, what are you looking forward to or looking to see and getting done
there? You know, we're launching um the training hub portion of Trade Tap and we
launch with uh CFI. So, we'll be be there with uh with um the training hub
on the computer ready to sign up installers for um trainings that are on
there and um show how the the platform works and how easy it is. So, we're
excited about that and just getting around and getting it's the one time a
year you can kind of hit a lot of people that you don't get to see every all the time. You only see him once, maybe twice
a year at trade shows. We talk a lot. We may get video time or
different things like that. But uh Mr. Jorgees joining the stream.
What's going on everybody? What's up? What's going on brother? Are you driving? Happy holidays, bro.
Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Yes sir. Hope everybody had a good time
during the holidays. It was good. That was sick, bro. It was okay. I mean, it's no work,
right? So, it's okay. Snow. Um, but yeah, we're going to be there.
Uh, also hosting the um Wi-Fi live, so
the power hour. So, looking forward to that and that interaction. That should be really fun. Um,
what else? Obviously, the installation competition and then that whole thing.
That ought to be a good time. Yeah, I gotta get some information on that. I wonder
I gotta get some details on that. Yeah. Um, you know, to to go back to your question too that you had asked. I know
I I reverted back to the same answer, but dude, I really liked the live switch
episode. Like that was and maybe it's because it's more more recent, right?
But I that was very exciting because that was all brand new real
life real time reaction to a lot of it. And you can see that during that episode
I was up a lot cuz I was actually so intrigued by it that I was going through his website and doing all the things he
was talking about and looking at all the options and and that it's like when
remember the first time you introduced uh Goker to me like it actually like instead of on stage uh trying to explain
it in person explaining it and I was just like dude right that's how I felt that's how
I felt with uh with live switch and it was just like tell me more. Like I could I didn't
learn enough. I didn't hear enough. Yeah. And James is a good communicator too and he he's he's uh he understands
our you know the trades in general. Uh he was a painter. So, it's always good
to get, you know, another thing I I wrote down that kind of plays right along with this is the all the times
that I I seen in episodes with guests where the guest was a installer and
ended up, you know, going into something still in flooring, just going into a
different portion, you know. Um, I love insulation, but I I'm an old installer,
so I love those stories where a guy was a painter or an old installer and he
started doing, you know, like um what was that guy's name? I think I took a
note of that actually. Uh oh, yeah. Yeah, Vince with it was
episode 146, the market demand for expert witness. He used to be an installer. Now he owns uh Donado PMPO's
uh ceramic tile uh I forget the name of that uh like but
they're a forensic tile service. Yeah. when he was an installer and he
owns Oceanside Glass. And then, you know, we had uh episode
163 adapting a new technology uh or new installation techniques and
technology with Robert Varden, which was is always inepth about, you know,
installation. Uh but it it uh and then even episode
124, global flooring trends, our insights across the pond. remember our our uh buddies across the pond, you
know, floor fitting. They they don't call it floor installing, they call it floor fitting.
They're they're a carpet fitter. Yep. Yeah. So, they don't call it surging. They call it
whipping. They do. Yeah. They're like, "You whip that carpet." Oh, okay. I thought it was
surging. So, they can't call me Sergio like Daniel does.
That's funny. So, yeah, I just noticed how many of
those guys were old installers that got into something else, you know, for for
um our our uh partners across the pond. They're they moved from installing
mainly hardwood but uh moved from that into flooring business consultants and
mentoring other flooring both installation companies as well as you know seven figure flooring contractors.
So yeah, it was pretty cool. Pretty cool to recognize that the the uh progression with a purpose.
That's what what what it is, right? Like you get those people who are passionate in what they do. They there there really
is no boundary or guideline. You just kind of what are the next steps? What's next? What's next?
What's next? Well, speaking of what's next, what's next for 26 for you guys? I mean, how'd
25 go overall? Um, not just business, but you know, it was uh it was it's been
a crazy year in my opinion. I think I probably say that every year, but the
um the the chaos in the world just seems
out of control sometimes and it's hard to stay focused on what you're doing professionally. you're like, you know,
almost distractions everywhere. Uh, so I found it to be a distracting year, not
from an aspect of like um I couldn't get work done. I did, but it's just one of
those years that seemed like there was so much going on in the public sphere that it it it was the topic of many
conversations. Um I would say
there was new successes this year but also new lumps they had to be taken
right and um like if I talk about 32 episodes ago
when I said hey I want to try to dig deeper and get more automated and all
that started happening went away started happening went away started happening
went away but then came back the last month with a fury because
I I didn't even remember that I said that in that episode, but figured a couple things out. Has it been a success
yet? No, because we don't have it. I don't have any any metrics to label it,
but I do. But you're working towards some cool goals.
The part that I the part that I wanted to complete is complete, right? It's just now now I got to find a way to
transfer it into a closed system instead of open system.
So now that I know that it can work, now I can fine-tune it into a closed system.
Yeah, I um What about you, Daniel? I thought this year was gonna I mean at
the start of the year the way that things were looking it was supposed to be like great right and then um all
these curve balls that we always talk about end up happening and projects get pushed and
it's just it's a struggle because then like just our episode last week, right?
It's it's that curveball and then you go into kind of go into panic mode like let me figure something out and then it's
hard to to come out of that. Yeah. Disruptions.
Disruptions. But we uh we're we're still here.
Still plugging. Perseverance I think is the most underrated quality to
any profession, but particularly entrepreneurship if you're owning your own company,
persevering through things and just dealing with stuff as it comes and looking for the best outcome you can
get. Um, we had many really wild things happened
at the flooring company this year. Um, but we ended up turning in our best
percentage profit year in our history. Uh, good for you, brother. And, uh, thank you. And
speaking net profit, so we were able to control cost better um, versus our
revenue. And that's always a good thing. We'll have, you know, get to share that with our employees uh, after the year
gets closed out here. And so we're really excited about that. Um but you
know between a lot of things happening that were at the time you're like wow
this is really rough um they as they often do turned out to be blessings in
disguise and about halfway through this year I found myself getting to a place where I hope I stay forever which is
it's happening for a reason where where what's what's the what's the where's the positive
like you know path here because it's there's something positive going to come out of
this and it's it's it's just rang true. I mean most times even in difficult
things it's it's uh turned out to be the best. I mean, long term the best thing
happened and uh yeah, we we had some great struggles but really good
victories and we turned the year in uh in a position that we really wanted to.
So, a lot of goals were hit and now next step we're like, you know, preparing the
company right now. uh we're kind of preparing the the company for growth uh
revenue growth, but we want to maintain our profit that we figured out how to make. Um and so that's a new challenge.
Can we grow and stay profitable? We were we proved that we could get profitable
uh in a significant way. It's not I mean we've only had two years of not not
being profitable. Well, three in 25 years. So like we've got a good track
record, but the two year two of those years are pretty close to now, you know,
and so they stick in your memory like I don't want to go back there. and um you
know instead of cutting and chopping off overhead spots and reducing spending and
all that and then running more profitable jobs, can we get can we increase our revenue
in a significant manner and still maintain our profit? So that's our new challenge for this year.
Right people, right seats, right? Uh Doyle asked if finding quality
laborers is still an issue for everyone. And I think if you talk to anyone in any
market right now, they will say yes because it's just like what we talk about here. It's not finding um
the laborers. That's the hard part. It's finding the qualified people.
Yeah. I'm not I I'm not sure if Doyle's speaking specifically for helpers
kind of position or apprentices or greenhorns, whatever you want to uh
refer to uh new blood in the industry or um you know
that that is what if that's what he's referring to as laborers or if he's just referring to
like installers in general, quality installers. But, you know, I think that
is a problem that is a
I think we've been screaming about it. And I don't say we as the huddle, I just mean the industry's been screaming about it for 10 years. And um there's finally
seems to be some good stuff going on over the last couple years, but it takes
time for something a problem that big to get solved. But I think 26 could be a
pretty standout year for um he he
clarified laborers and new blood. I think it could be a pretty standout year because there is a lot of activity in
that the college programs and the different programs that are being done through the
um Mark Farnsworth has some stuff moving with multiple different colleges. uh all
the training entities are working on this as well. Uh and then it's getting the access to the uh to the community
that hires them. So, jumpst start is one of our our features in uh trade tap that
will give you direct access to the new blood new laborers and you'll be able to
look that look up guys by geographic and uh geography and the discipline that
they got cho uh trained in. um that is pretty live, but we're I mean it's been
live, but we are redesigning that as well, and it goes live soon after the first year. Um and that'll be hopefully
a really good resource for people just to log on. It costs next to nothing, $99
in for a year. And every installer could have access to New Blood coming in as
they finish these introductory uh courses. Um, so anyway, kind of a plug
there at the same time as as stating that obviously we didn't price the thing
to to like be a profitable thing. What it is is just trying to cover the
technology costs for it and um that's it. We just want the guys to get hired.
We feel like that is the key to making sure that the training entities and
everybody really starts that flywheel starts turning is uh getting the new
guys hired. Like all these programs are great, but if we can't get you a job, then that's a problem.
The point, right? Right. Well, and and not only that, like and also
I'm going to go and build off of what he like the young blood newbies, green horns, whatever. What are we doing to
attract the next generation, too? Like when I came into the industry, there
were so many hungry people trying to get out of a living situation, trying to
break cycles that it was like people were willing to try flooring. They were
willing to try it for two years, three years. Now, people are only willing to
try if the bait is juicy enough. And not
only that is once they start, if they do get into it, now it's not the bait. Now,
the plates had to be overflowing with abundance
um of of what they love to eat, right? So, you know, got to got to try to make it
abundant, try to make it sexy, got to make it nice, got to we got to figure out a way to package it to to to help
our industry thrive in five. Well, and I want to I want to feed off
of that real quick. And I mean, uh go along with that with Jose's saying, and it's true. You got to entice these guys
to want to come and do this job because it's in some of the in some of the trades like doing carpet for example,
it's it's super hard labor. Uh it's heavy and some people might be turned
off doing carpet versus doing wood or ceramic or sticking to showers or
something that pays a lot more. So then you're going to have these pockets of where you're not going to have installers in certain things because a
lot of these young guys are going to say, "Hey, I need to get paid, right? Like I want to get paid. I need to make money because life is so expensive right
now. Mortgages, renting, whatever you groceries, gas, everybody's throwing
fireballs at you and you kind of want to get on the trade that's going to pay a
little bit more. So, what's going to pay more, right? Like some guys are going to opt out of carpet because carpet
honestly, like when you get the lower end stuff, it doesn't pay the the best. It doesn't pay for Let's just be honest.
At the end of the day, uh just to build off that a little bit, Jorge, it's the if you if you run the uh
we've ran the the price progression of installation payouts and carpets by far
now carpet tile in the commercial world really helped cause this because it turned I
would say a skilled product into a skilled product that is more based on
the adhesive. Maybe I mean you don't need as many hand skills or installation
knowledge to put down a decent carpet tile, but carpet is lagging behind all
the others uh from a percentage of increase in pay. Now you get into the
technical products and it's keeping up your flat weaves and your your wools,
your woven products. It's easier for those, right? Because even the people that are buying the stuff online, the websites that they're
buying from was like, "If you're going to buy from us, we want to know who the installer is, and they'll send them to
the NFIC website, to CFI website." So, I mean, it's it's I mean, it's progress,
right? That's what we need. We need pe more people to be like that. If you want this product, let me know. You got to
use someone from this list that I'm giving you. And, you know, yeah, when PJ was doing that, uh, he
really put us on a list. And out of the CFI website and out of the NFIC website
before they merged on together, I got more calls from NFIC and manufacturers
from around the nation that were like, "Hey, we heard that you're on this list and you're the guy in your area that's
doing this." From CFI, it was a little bit different. I'd get a call like once every 2 3 years. Uh, but NFIC was the
one that they had us on a list. And doing those types of materials, it's a little bit different. You gota you got
to really put a lot of care into it. Do my bad. Go ahead. I say I have an idea you guys. What if
to start attracting the next generation we start offering Robux as a 90-day
incentive because our kids are all on Roblox right now. Doya says, "How do we create
theater programs for the the classes like the FCF and
and all the the stuff that's going on in the colleges and I don't I don't know if it's
necessarily a program that's what those programs are there for is to those are feeders for us right but um people need
to know about them and that's on on people like us letting people know I mean yeah and you know frankly the the whole
system had to be kind of re clarified and revamped um you know there's a lot
work going on and you guys know about it. But the the bottom line is you have to have a way for
uh uh the not only the people to know about it, but to know why it's important
to them. And that's that's a lot of work on the the entities to do the work to do
to get the word out there. But also like you said Daniel it it really you know it's one of Trade
Tap's core uh core missions is to get people hired get people well if people
start getting hired that's the why that's the oh I can actually I actually get a job when I go to this if these
programs are able to say hey we have a 85% placement rate or a 92% placement rate
and then they can the market against that well then that's telling people who are looking to get into the trades that
if I go through this program, I'm going to get a job. Well, why are they going through the program to get a dog on job?
So, uh we got to uh we got to you leverage proof, I think, is one of the
big things. And then I think it goes right into this next comment by uh
Oh, just reading that one. He says, "Just talked with a company last week about them not being able to
attract good installers, but they want to pay them like it's 1995. can't understand why these companies are
not willing to pay realistic wages. How do we change that? Everything keeps going up except the price of
installation. My hypothesis around Oh, go ahead, Jose. Uh, you know, I I want to add to an
experience that Daniel and I had that could possibly tie into that a little bit. It's we invested a lot of hours
that we were not compensated for. So, we had to have a meeting with this company and this is when we were
obviously labor only and the the gentleman's project that we
were doing literally begged and pleaded with the owners of the company in front of us, why are we not paying them from
our profit margins for the work that they are doing? Why are we not willing
to lose on our part for the work we are asking them to do? and we're just
deciding not to pay them, right? And and that ties into that 1995
wage comment um along with a couple other examples,
I'm sure. But well, another another point to that is
it's the the why is it keep happening is because we untrained guys are willing to
do the god dang work for cheaper than what the guys that are know what they're doing. That's the bottom line. That's
what if the companies could not get the work done for any cheaper, they they would have to pay the higher wage. Um,
the bottom line is that we, and this is where the crux of everything I'm
attempting to do and we're attempting to do is to separate very clearly a
highquality installer, a qualified, a master, an a a a highlevel, highly
precise installer from Chuck and a truck. And if you make that separation
clear and companies start working with I mean every company I talk to they pay
different guys better. I mean if you're looking when you're looking you don't know what you're getting and so you
offer these lower amounts. I think that if you can clearly identify that, which
is what trade tap and the VTI is all about, um then you you have a better
chance of the high quality guys getting paid more. The lower quality guys not
really getting work without being driven to more training or assessments,
certifications, that kind of thing. And that way uh now you have the whole
industry being pulled up and it's going to be pulled up by its bootstraps. It's gonna be pulled up by us.
Where this comment from Rin kind of flows in too, right? Because not only he says that you have to have make it sexy
for them to to join, right? Oh, he said put in in a calendar, which
yeah, we can have a calendar and his long hair though. But not only do you
have to make it sexy for the the people that are coming in is you have to make
um like the certification sexy for the people that are already in because that ties into Al's comment
where he said that Doyle is the highest paying retailer in his town and he wants certified installers. He's offered to
pay for their certifications and they still say no. So what's going to make that the the certification sexy? It's
actually getting that VTI and being like, "Okay, now this is worth
something." Mhm. Yeah. And and at the uh like at the
onset of it all or the beginning of this process, uh what Doyle
I mean he says next is they have to do it collectively together on raising
prices. Well, that means you got to be part of something. You can't collectively do something without being
a part of something. So being a part of the VTI and eventually
uh we'll have a forum on there where installers can talk to one another and then you have no reason not to
collectively raise your prices and right realize that as flooring contractors now
this is businessman flooring contractor Paul stating we bid jobs at a certain
weight rate and so you can't it's not going to happen overnight but raise it a
little bit raise it a little bit. Raise a little bit. That's how the prices go up. Uh we watched it happen here in our
hometown because we used what what is to be the VTI but was Go Carrera.
Installers started seeing what we were paying versus our competition. And even though our competition would I won't let
them on. Go Carrera, frankly. Uh it's the only company in the nation that I I I won't let on. But um because of that,
they had to start raising their prices cuz they were like, "Look, SNA is paying
will pay me 20 cents more a square foot for this apartment complex or 50 cents a
square foot more. How am I going to, you know, and so it's being part of that collective uh installer community that
will help drive prices?" Yeah. He also says that you have to sell the professionalism of the service you
offer. Um, that's all we have to do. I don't think that's all we have to do, but that's a huge part. And that's
where, uh, I talk to contractors in our area all the time, and that's what I
say, you know, it's like they're like, "You guys are just more expensive." And it's like I mean we're on a project
right now helping one of the other flooring companies in the area because they turned down the more expensive
numbers and it's like I mean in the end of the day are are they going to be spending any less
because of all the change orders? Probably not. Yeah.
And it's um the you said the more expensive thing too and it's not here's the thing too. So everyone like we're in
the same industry, right? It's pennies on the dollar add up which creates the
illusion of more expensive, right? book when there is more factored in and more
included in one package versus the very vague other package that is
substantially lower. At the end of the day, when they add in
all of their things, like Daniel said, all the change orders were actually really not that far apart. It's just I'd
rather give you money back than ask you for money at the end.
Yeah. Well, if you're if you compare that to the installation side, like
you're kind of talking about bidding work and putting packages
together. Really, on the installation side, you live and die by your by your
reputation and the ability to uh or the the your
reputation. Yeah. but also the ability of the homeowner to kind of check that, right?
So, if you uh if you have a great reputation and you market yourself well,
then 70% the studies show 70% of the people will pay you more because they
trust you, they know you and they uh they know your reputation.
That that's the crux of it all. The the problem that I have had and that I have
seen is that there's some installers who are grossly undereducated and grossly
undertrained that talk really well and they're able to make you believe that
and you know I'm ashamed to say as an installer myself I've been fooled many
times on this uh over the past 25 years and then we do the most insane thing in
flooring and we all do it is we try
somebody out and so we're effectively putting our customer in this position to
find out if this guy's any good. Well, if we know they're good because of the verified trade index, then we're we're
more able to um assess that installer
and and make sure that the right right installers on the right job. Um yeah,
and that's going to in that can only increase pay.
Basic carpet should not be installed for less than $2 per foot.
I mean, that's a dream, right? To have it at $2 a foot, but you're lucky if you get one. Realistically,
yeah, for basic, I mean, one one for basic, 125 for basic is good. Two bucks
is stretching it. I mean, it just depends. Are you adding tax strip? Once you start adding tax strip, t tax
replacement, transitions, all kinds of other stuff. It's going to almost be two bucks a foot with all that. Um, it just
depends on everybody and and and that's just on regular just talking like not providing any
material. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you do have those people who do the labor only and they will bring their
own tax rep, right? They want to use what they're comfortable with and that's included in their labor price.
That's that's where it should jump up to, right? But everything we're like just labor only. It would be nice to see
those amounts when the crazy thing is is that you don't see $2 a foot on sheet
vinyl in most places. Yeah. And
that is like
that's more that's closer. I mean $2 a foot on sheet vinyl. I don't know how
you get there on carpet, you know. uh not on not when you're talking about um
like standard, you know, apartment grade kind of stuff or your standard uh I'll
say midline uh replacement. I don't know how you get there,
you know, like what does
what does the where's the bottom line where a guy can
make a good living? And in that field, I mean, if you're at a dollar or even 85
cents a foot, you're you're doing you're doing pretty well if you know how to install. Well, it's easy to get. want to make
more, you got to increase your your skill and ability and you got to go into
some other products like Jorge was talking about earlier. Yeah. And Doyle says you got to consider
one room or whole house, right? Because the less amount that you do, the more you got to bump it up, right? So, it's
easier to make more um per foot because you you got to start looking at projects, not just what you're doing
because if you're looking at just what you're doing, then you're losing out. every every project
that we put numbers to is project based. It's not just, oh, I charge X amount.
So, when people, you know, back in the day, they they were like, "Hey, can I get your price list?" And, you know, we
put one together. And then there was a time um where we were we just talked to each other and we were like, "Dude, this
price list is nothing." And then it was, "I need information. What's the job look like? Give me a print. I need to know
all this stuff before I even give you any numbers." Right? Because, you know, I use a a
corridor for an example. If we're doing a corridor at a retirement home of a VCT
at night and every four feet there's a doorway, an al cove and a doorway, you
know, and and right and all these returns and now I'm doing that and there's only
there's, you know, 500 square feet a night. No big deal as long as we make this much money at night. But now I have
all that extra work that requires more hand skills, more time.
It makes it more difficult to be profitable at a set number. Like now I got to figure out my hours divided into
the time I'm going to spend because this is a little bit more than just your standard square 500 500 square foot
room. That's a square a box with a door, right? Like right. So he says you got to have a minimum and
a footage price.
Yeah. So, what's Kevin say? Yeah, I can tell how I justify our guys
getting 250 a foot for LVP. Carpet takes far more tools and far more supplies,
physical energy, and much more skill and experience. How do you get there with carpet? How can't you? And that's where
um I kind of want to fall back to salesman, right? Because I don't know,
are we focused on just talking about residential or commercial? Because I guess it doesn't matter. The saleserson
that's selling it in most cases doesn't know what goes into the installation. They think that I'm selling carpet, this
is what it costs to install it. They don't look at the halfinch pattern that's on it. They don't look at the
tack strip or the double stick. In most cases, they're just like, "It's carpet. Just go throw it in." And
well, and and the other variable of there's a lot more people in the I can
install carpet bucket than there is in the I can install resilient bucket,
right? If we're comparing it. So now I have 200 options to choose from versus
20 options, right? And out of that 200 and out of that 20, how many of them
are consistent with workmanship? Right? Now that you narrow it down, you know, you still end up with way more options
on the carpet side than you do the the the other bucket. And that's where
some of these some of these I mean I get Kevin's point and this is uh this this
points more towards the residential side cuz if you're getting 250 a foot on a
commercial LVP uh it's it's going to be a kind of a special condition or a wet
set or something of that nature in a smaller area. um at least in our area.
But point taken, I mean, $125, $150 even in
commercial and you you know guys are you know I know we've got crews that just a
guy and a helper are doing four or 5,000 foot in a day on the right jobs and
they're doing very well uh under those circumstances to state to kind of address Kevin's
thing. I get where you're coming from, but just because it's harder work doesn't make it more valuable.
The I mean, you see this with many many industries. Um, it's it's harder work to
work on a uh say a boat or I don't know if that's
a good example, but like certain motors than other motors, but the people who are the most skilled and doing the
higher end, if you're working on a Tesla, you're making more than you you do working at a mechanic shop changing
oil. Let me just say that the the the tools and what makes it hard
because of the weight and all of this stuff and the skill set, it doesn't mean the market's going to respond. I think
that a lot of people still value shop carpet or I shouldn't say still but they
value shop carpet and if carpet gets too high they were like
well I just prefer hardwood or I'd prefer I really wanted you know this
other product but I couldn't afford it. carpets is still in the value zone until
you're getting into the the the stuff that Jorge does, the the runners
and the surging and the the wools and the stuff like that. The the carpet installer is such a broad
term, right? Because when we look at carpet, we look at all the different types and variations of carpet, but when
the public says carpet, they're including all the different types and variations of the carpet. So maybe
creating separation, public separation. Here's another thing.
Well, here's another thing. Sorry to No, you're fine, bro. That's what I'll cut you off. Was about cutter offer. People do LBT hardwood and tile and they
might think, well, I'm going to save some money because if carpet's going to cost this much to do, I'll do that other
surface. But then what starts to happen is when you're on a second story or when the floor starts getting too cold on the
first floor, guess what they do? they're going to buy rugs or they're going to buy something else to cover those areas.
A lot of people do that all the time. It's like people do beautiful wood work on staircases and then here comes Jorge
covering it up with a staircase runner because now the kids are running down or the dog slips and it's better to put a
staircase runner on it than broken leg or a hurt dog and now you got to go spend all this money at the hospital
which happens a lot. Yeah. No, I'm not saying LVP is more valuable than carpet uh at all. I'm not
even saying that I'm not even arguing with your point, Kevin, that that um
it's more skilled by far. I I believe that. Um what I'm saying is that because
people value shop carpet, I'm not saying the installer. I'm saying the people if
they have a budget for their house and carpet cost, you know, XYZ a foot. Let's
say 12 bucks, 10 bucks a foot, right? That's that's going to be a expensive
carpet. Well, for uh about the same price, you can get a hardwood or you can get
something else. I'm saying that they value shop carpet. carpet. Most people, and not maybe that's a too
overarching term, but a lot of people, they're buying carpet because they can't afford they would love to have hardwood
or they'd love to have, you know, a tile or a, you know, a hard surface
throughout their house. Most of them can't afford a $12 a square foot, $14 a
square foot installed product. And so they go for the, you know,
$5 a square foot product. You can get a decent carpet for $5 a square foot installed
right down the street. I don't do residential, but I can tell you right down the street, you can go to my
competition who does do residential and get $45 a yard installed nylon,
you know, textured cut pile. like pretty basic stuff, but still it's a heck of a lot cheaper than
hardwood. And um so that's all I was saying, right? And and we all know that no
flooring has any value until it's correctly installed anyway. So
properly installed, right? Yeah. So there's that part, Kevin. But um I see I see where where
Kevin's coming from on that, too. Right. that the argument is is for
the carpet installer, but you're right. If someone wants hardwood, it's way too
expensive. They go all the way down the bucket at the very bottom for most costefficient is going to be carpet,
right? Like that's the most costefficient to do. And to say the least
in and I'm residential here, residential carpet is also the most
forgiving for people who are going to install it because they can Dude, I
from a subfloor prep position, it for sure is. Yes. Right. That and that's where I was going with that. I've seen it installed
over cardboard shims, steel uh shims, right? like different levels in in the
same room and it's performed okay. It's performed. You didn't really notice it until you
tore it up, right? So, like it is carpet is the the
flooring industry's uh band-aid residential and and look look when LVP started
stealing market share from carpet. It happened when LVP got cheaper, not
because people just automatically recognized it. When I first started laying LVP, it was pretty much Antico
was the Yeah. game and it was it's always been a premium. You know, they have uh Spacia
now that they bought when they bought Mannington or when Mannington bought them, but um Antico Signature Series is
still an expensive uh LVP. That was all LVPs back then. It was like uh Cintiva,
uh Mico, like that was it. It was 375 a foot or 350 a foot when it was actual
luxury. Yeah. uh when LVP and LBT ended up coming down
and you could buy the crap for 20 cents a foot, 79 cents a foot or whatever.
Well, people start putting that crap in their houses because it was now in their affordable zone. If you own a mid
mid-range home, uh you're just not typically putting in a high range product. And that the minute that carpet
goes way too high on the cost scale, people are going to want a hard surface
for the cleanability and all that. Now, what needs to happen in my opinion, I don't think carpet should be replaced. I
love carpet. Uh the just look under your bed if you have a hardwood floor. If you
didn't notice, it is gnarly under there after about three months because it's it's not
allergenic like carpet. It doesn't hold the the dust and the dirt and then let you vacuum it up with your nice Dyson
Hepac. I mean, there is a lot of reasons to put in carpet. The the education
behind it is always driven by the manufacturers and what they want to move at that at that time and then that's
what homeowners buy. I know that at least in the residential world, um, you
know, I'm using some basic knowledge because I don't do enough residential to be an expert in that, but
there's a reason why we still use a ton of carpet in the uh, commercial world, right? Al says if you're doing double
stick or pattern or woven, he agrees at $2 a square foot. But if you're doing a
new construction or apartment 20 ounce builder grade carpet, no way it's worth $2 a square foot. And that's where you
have the different tiers of installers, too, right? Because these guys that are doing the multifamily are just going in
and they most of them probably have never even seen a stretcher.
Yeah. And you know, I want to add to that. Who is the guy we talked to? Uh, Jose
the what was his name? He was with uh
Novalac. Was it Novalac? Noises. No. Noales. Yeah. Uh, Andy McWills.
Yeah. Yeah. Andy, remember we was talking about all and Dwayne Puit chimed in about how much and he was like, there's
no way these guys are using kickers and I know that's not the way to do it, but
you're not. How are you going to stop it when they got to get nine units a day done and you know 900 yards of
residential carpet and it's a rag anyway? You know that there is a reason
for that's where the lower skilled labor should be and then we
focus on the higher skill stuff. Uh, I know that in commercial, we even talked
about this a couple episodes ago about how a lot of the multifamily work is is increasing their their product uh
selection because they're looking at life cycle cost and how many tenants I can get through this thing.
Yeah, we done we've done two or three this year big projects. There was a 20 mil 5 mm like nice LVT
LVP. So, so Doyle says, and this kind of goes with what Kevin is saying is not
necessarily the labor aspect, but the numbers game, right? And why why the hard surface is getting pushed more is
because what they sell is driven by manufacturers advertising. So, what are they marketing
at that moment? Yeah, that's what we talked about just a few seconds ago. I mean, we we we know
that um there's a need for carpet and carpet can't should not be replaced. I
mean, uh but the bottom line is what's being the pushed the most, you know,
what what's really getting the the push. So, we all know that flooring,
oh, we all know that the floors that resilience going over isn't properly
prepared either. Most of the time guys are getting paid for pre prep on top of
250 a foot. Carpet trade gets hosed. This will continue until there are no
carpet guys left. And the crazy thing about that, Kevin, is that there's so many guys out there that will only
install install carpet and not touch anything else. Yes. They say, "I'm a floor guy. I only install carpet." So, let me add to what
you just said, Kev. It's the flooring trade gets hosed at the end of the day,
right? like we are the most expendable trade on a project. When it comes to pinching pennies, they don't pinch
pennies on the aesthetics of the paint on the aesthetics of the uh fixtures or
the doors or or the furniture. It goes back into the floors. Where can I save
on the floors? And we are uh the last one's in there. We're value engineering a lot on the
flooring industry. Well, and I I don't want to uh this is a a good back and
forth opportunity. I I would disagree with you. The problem with say for
paint, for example, what's the difference between a really high-grade paint and a builder grade
paint? Not a lot. I mean there there I use I mean I've painted my my my home
and had my home painted and I used top of the line Sherwood Williams emerald and it is about five times the cost
but overall project because you're talking the labor's the most cost in
painting and all the prepping and all of that stuff. Yeah. and and uh all the extra materials
they need, the plastic and the the tape and all of that stuff. That's where the cost comes in. And uh so a lot of there
like if you're only going to save five grand on an entire job because you go from Emerald to, you know, Pro 2000 or
whatever. Well, but you could save that at the click of a button by going from
one product to another in flooring. We just have such range in our stuff that
we give them the opportunity to be able to value engineer. Copper wiring in
electrical is copper wiring, right? You can't use like there's not an
electrician going, hey, we use higher grade copper wiring. No, you have to use what the dang what is specified for it
for the voltage and the the the demand on that line. You see what I'm saying? So, there's
just less room in a lot of the other trades to be value engineered out. We have such room where, okay, take an LV,
a nice LVT and uh switch it out for um a
good carpet tile and you can save, you know, couple bucks a foot. Not even
that. If you go from a 5mm LBT to a 2 and a half millimeter LBT, right? It's
just something like that, you could save a dollar a square foot real easy. or go
from a 30 40 mil wear layer to a 20 mil and you're going to save a couple dollars a foot and get the same visual
and they're both 2 and a half mil you. So there it's the room that allows us to
be the heavy value engineered because we have such price range in our product
lines. At least that's what I've experienced over the last 25 years
um of what Kevin is saying. Kevin, we have I have been on projects where they
try to value engineer from like a carpet tile to a broad loom and then they're
like I I go back with the numbers and they're like I thought this was supposed to be way cheaper and I said oh the
product is cheaper but I have to charge more for the labor because you want me to carry up all these rows up all these
steps unroll it in all these hallways all these rooms it the the labor is more
expensive so it's kind of washed and they went with carpet tile. So
y sometimes just because the the product is cheaper doesn't mean that the labor is going to also be cheaper and that's
where salesmen have to come into play and know exactly what's going on because
that's just in people's heads, right? Like carpet is just cheaper, so I'm going to go with that option. That ties
back into um what uh what Al had said too about the the woven carpet the and pattern and
double stick should be at the $2 a square foot right
there when there's a lot. Yeah. when there's a lot of moving parts and and the installer is it should be a
requirement but the installer must understand the science behind all those moving parts then yes I believe that you
should be compensated for the amount of years and time and effort and failures
and successes you you have experienced to get to that point and that's where hard tile is right
because you can have that that's where it's weird because the material cost will be like this and the labor cost is
like this. That's where you find that huge separation. Well, that's because of El President helped write the damn book.
The the the inside your the whole tile world is a whole
different beast because you can get like much respect by the way for
large paneling that separation you guys. large panel. Hard tile sucks.
Someone's gonna fight you now. You get the higher bigger and bigger tile and larger and larger tile. I don't
know the tile world uh and the price resilience for it is pretty um you know
should be studied like did carpet follow the same path as they started coming out
with more and more difficult um you know patterns and and looks. Uh,
it'd be interesting to know if the manufacturers themselves kind of backed
up that higher labor cost. I mean, I know like when our reps sell something
that's, you know, 24 by 48 and bigger, anytime they're selling that to a
architect, they tell the architect straight up, like they are always telling them, "This is going to increase
your labor cost." Like, so just so you know, and the the big slab, you know,
gauge porcelain panels. I mean, that stuff's 15 $18 a square foot as it is.
It's it's like a sheet vinyl, right? You get one cut, man. You break one, baby.
You break one first try. And so the installation because of the risk,
why do you have so much extra square square footage? Why does it cost so much? It's like because this panel is
like 40 square feet. Yeah. You can't you can't use the the three foot that's
left off of that thing. I mean, we've done massive panels. Well, I think the
biggest one was 5 foot by 10 foot panels, you know, and you got to pay well. It's
usually very very uh labor intensive and you got to have all the extra tools.
hearkening back to what Kevin said, but I would tell installers like if you're having a problem, if a if a certain
discipline is not paying you well and you're highly trained and you can command a higher price, but you're still
not it's still the the it's a product problem, specialize, do something like
what Jorge is doing or get into another into one of the other products. Diversify a little bit. We've talked
about that on this podcast before. So, Doyle says he wonders if
manufacturers would offer rebate programs for installation for installers. And um not necessarily like
a rebate program, but I know Kevin over with Roberts, they were working on, you know, you get an additional warranty if
you use their products and you're certified. So, there's avenues out there to where they are trying.
Jeremy says uh he wishes employees would get a little extra for having to deal with all the extra steps for longer
process. And that's where we're kind of at with the hard tile installers is they
do command that that extra money for all those extra steps. And that's why your
your material cost is this big, but your labor cost is this big, right? Because it's it's just not the same as the the
other parts of the industry. And um wood's almost the same way, right? Where you're doing sand and refinish and
you know the product is relatively low cost and then the labor is two or three times the amount.
Yeah. Same thing with epoxy floors and like polished concrete. I mean you don't
have that much product. You got equipment and your tooling and your your labor. Uh
the epoxy itself and the chips not that expensive if you're doing a decorative epoxy for example, but your
grinder costed $35,000. Your the the heads on the on the grinder, just your
diamond your discs, you know, you got to have three sets for different things, uh
you know, are $600 a pop. And so it's those things that cost, but then you you
cross that or you amateurize that across the entire square footage of the job.
It's pennies. You know, it's 30 cents a square foot or something like that. And
then your densifier, if you're polishing concrete, for example, is like a quarter or less. It's all your time and effort
put into running the machines back and forth, you know? So that's where there
there are some disparities. Carpet is typically cost obviously more than the labor and it's it's that way in carpet.
It's still that way in sheet vinyl. Um you know sheet vinyl in the commercial
world you're going to pay anywhere from 28 to $48 may sometimes more but let's just say 28 to $48 is the range for a
decent commercial sheet vinyl. And a good payout is is at $2 a square foot,
you know, and um that's a pretty standard uh I would say on the high
side. Uh I have the luxury of seeing work orders across the nation through Go
Carrera. So I know that's a good wage in general. Uh that's about what we pay. It
just depends on the project, but and then plus weld and plus your flash coing
per lineal foot. We break it out that way. When we pay, we don't pay like I don't know some exorbitant amount per
yard and includes everything. Includes everything. I hate that. No, we pay by the yard for the for the
flap for the sheet vinyl and then by the lineal foot for the co uh cove cap and
metal and flash coving and then by the lineal foot on weld rod. I look at it as separate steps, but
that's my world. That's what I love to work on. That's what I love to install. Um, and uh, you know, they I said this
when we started this podcast that when I first started, we were being paid seven
and eight bucks a yard to install and 99.
It's almost triple. I think two years ago, someone approached us and said, "Hey," they said that you guys were the
best guys in town to do sheet vinyl. We have this job. They sent us a work order and it was $6 a yard for sheep item.
I wouldn't I wouldn't do I mean that is
I wouldn't do the estimate for $6 a yard. That's about what uh is paid for like
loose lay sheet vinyl in an apartment. Six or eight bucks a yard, you know? And
that's because you just go cut it in really fast. just tossing your quarter around and like there's nothing, no
prep, that's how those apartments are treated, right? And it's just the empire because the very next tenant that comes
in, turn it over, do it all over again. Look, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you guys realize what time it
is. Yeah. How about that? And and we went off on a tangent. It's five o'clock somewhere.
We didn't go off topic. We did exactly what we did in all the other episodes. It it was a tangent, but it was a good
tangent, right? It's a It's a good one to to end the year on, I think. Well, the bottom line is the higher uh
quality you can prove yourself to be and and um present yourself
and the more education and training you've absorbed and became better in any
of these fields, you're going to get better. You're going to get better pricing. You're going to get better
projects. Uh, the whole thing just works better if you are a professional. Um, I
had some other episodes I was going to bring up, but we're out of time. We are out of time. So, Spotify does a
nice thing and gives us the the wrap for the year, right? So, when uh when
Spotify did this, this was the top episode, but now the top episode, let me
see if I can get back to it real quick. It's not that anymore, but they didn't
change it.
Anyways, I'll see if I can find it. But, you know, this live room uh synergy was
that top episode. Yeah. And that that was a a good one. Um
I wasn't there. Y'all were there. You were there, just not all the way there. I was there, but I was there, but I was
wasn't there. That was uh I I think if uh
If we have no technology problems, then our
Wi-Fi episode should be the the best episode for viewership. It's bringing in
a new audience. So, I want to thank Wi-Fi for partnering with the Huddle to do Wi-Fi uh Power Hour live at TIC. Um
it's going to be a great show. We're we're stoked about it and uh we are
really really looking forward to working with them people. Pop countries. All right.
You know, we're we're worldwide, guys. So, we definitely appreciate um everyone
that that listens to us. We are top we are top uh podcast for 17
people on Spotify. Nice.
Well, as we end the year, guys, I just want to say thank you to everybody who comes on every week, uh, gets on
YouTube, watches our channels, followed us on a social. We're going to continue to do some more planning. We are still
planning on coming out with uh, our business stuff this next year. Um, it's
it's a grind for us to to get the time to work on that, honestly. We all own other companies as well. Um but yeah,
after the first year and we get I personally get uh trade tap launched and and uh the the VTI uh launch so that we
can get that all rolling. I'll have some extra time to work on that with Daniel and Jose. And we do plan on still
bringing that out next year and having one heck of a program for you. I can't thank you enough. It's been an honor to
uh you know work with you guys and carpet guys are installing for what
did he say? 3 to 350 a yard. Well, that's that's a travesty unless you're doing a freaking
schoolsiz project with carpet tile. That's a travesty. So yeah, we we got
some some things planned for for the year and we we're definitely um ready to to bring you guys along for
the ride. Our says that people listen to us for 80% 86% longer than other shows.
Um we receive more comments than 78% of other shows and more shares than 80% of
other shows. So thank you guys for Thank you everyone. Appreciate that. Please keep on doing that. I mean,
without you guys, we'd be nothing. Like, seriously, thank you. Yeah, that's that's uh humbling. That's
awesome, guys. Thank you so much for for being here with us. We love you guys when you're uh on live, but we we
appreciate you going to the different podcasting uh sites and watching our content there. Uh you know, let's keep
it up. Let's keep the let's collaborate as this conversation had uh alluded to.
collaborate as a as a group of installers and uh we can we can make some positive
change. Let's get together. Yes, sir. Be a collective and make positive change in our industry. It's been clear we have
to take the reigns. Uh you can't just say what needs done. We got to act and
um you know, not to toot our horns, but that's what we're doing. We are acting and making positive steps uh as best as
we see. and you guys give us great advice on this channel as well. Uh, but we're making positive steps that we feel
are best for the industry and uh, let you guys decide at the end of the day. So, thanks again. That's awesome stats.
Uh, that means we're, you know, top 20% of the nation in some of this stuff,
which is pretty encouraging. I did find the the um most listened to episode was
ended up being implementing effective quality control measures.
Love it. Don't talk about it, be about it. I love it. Kevin.
All right, guys. Well, Jorge, thanks for uh jumping on and chatting with us a little bit here when you could want to
close it. Thanks for having me. Bro, got to close this game. What's your end of the year?
Uh, my end of the year is uh I could stretch it with my knee kicker for a
dollar, but if you want me to use a power stretcher, I'll charge you $2.
Now, I just hope everybody has a great uh 2026 going to be a great year. Uh so,
I'm looking forward to it. Uh I can't wait for it to get here already. So, I hope everybody has a blessed new year
and I hope to see uh most of you and everybody really. I really want to see everybody at at Ty uh because that's the
only time we get to hang out and convention and maybe a couple of other things, but uh I hope to see everybody
there. Yeah. Amen. Looking forward to it, brother. Yeah.
Thanks, Kevin. See you at T, bro. Ties you are now. Book your tickets today.
Book them. Yes, sir. Closing 2025.
Mr. Daniel, what's what's your words of wisdom?
Start charging $2 a square foot for everything. How about you, Jose?
Uh, I'm going to close it out in responding to this right here.
Uh, Jeremy's comment. I wish the employees would get a little extra for having to deal with the extra steps or
longer process. Does that mean that as the employer I
can put deducts in for you causing me extra steps in a longer process?
This sounds personal. It's the same thing. I seen it um uh someone shared a video and he just
shares like little clips of like the views from a business owner. He's like, uh, you you never get a call
or a text when you give them a little bit extra in their check. It's like, oh, we'll give them, you know, four more
hours, but then if there's 10 minutes missing from their check, there's like, what is going on?
Isn't that funny? They never say anything about that. But how it works? I think that Adam Sandler and Mr. Deed
said it best. You remember that scene where player and
Oh, yes. the from the Jets and he's like, "I ain't throwing another damn pass till
you get off your rich asses and renegotiate my cont."
And then he punches him and he's like, "Okay, what's the problem?" He's like, "Well, I just figured that since if I
did good, you guys pay me more money." He goes, "Well, if you don't do good, can we pay you less money?" He goes,
"Hell no." And that that sums it all up. So
yeah, I think you get you get paid with directly to the value you bring. That is
the bottom line, guys. Whether you're uh entrepreneur and you're working in the marketplace, it's they're in direct
contact with the value you bring to the marketplace. Same thing to your employer. Bring a lot of value to your
employer. Make them not be able to uh ignore you and you will do just fine. And that's what they said. and
or go to another employer that will treat you just fine. I mean, that's just I'm listening to is about leadership,
right? And that's what they said. It's and I've I've, you know, watched videos on it, too. And it's
like people think that the title, you're working towards the title, but the the people that end up, you know, getting
the titles just were working. They they weren't necessarily looking for it. It's like
you just have to do the work and then things will come to you, man.
Yeah. Adding the value just be looking like I want this title and why why don't
I have it yet? It's a leader is is going to work towards that. Well, like you said, a lot of people
that end up getting that title, that is not what their goal was. their their goal was to bring a best experience they
can to their customers or the be the best employee in a certain position,
whatever. Make yourself invaluable. There's there's not there's no industry,
no no job, nothing that that doesn't help you. Do not hurt yourself by being
on time, being punctual, being dependable, you know, doing high quality work, being
professional, having a good attitude. These things are across every business.
And if you are those things, you'll get you'll get you'll get paid better than
most. And that's where I see like we we always relate it to sports. And in baseball,
the Ripken experience, they sell shirts that's it just pl they're plastered says hustle takes no skill. Mhm.
So, you guys just made me think of something that I and this is will be my closing thing for 2025,
and I'll let everybody kind of let this turn into their own interpretation.
I told my son years ago, I said, "I'll get you the things that you need, but I don't ever want you to
come up and and ask me for the things that you want and be afraid to ask. What
I would like is I want you to do things without me having to ask you all the
time. So that way when you do approach me of something with something you want,
you make it hard for me to say no. Make it hard for me to say no.
Did you ever find Do you ever find that it's just one of those deals that you
naturally want to do without them even asking sometimes
when they're taking all the initiative in the world? Yeah. Well, you you naturally want to do
it because it's it's a reaction to the to effort, right? Like um
you can't help anyone who doesn't want to help themselves. that old saying and that's that's where that that teaching
came from with my son. And I'll be honest, my son is a little weird when with his work ethic and what he is
comfortable doing and what he knows how to do. I'll be honest, he's a little out there, right? But it all started with
that little that little thing. And I'm not lying. I started telling him that when he was like four years old.
Wow. Dad, can you go buy me this? Well, what have you done for me lately?
Yeah, that's that's the thing people. You got to show up every day.
Do the job. Like Daniel said, like Jorge and uh Jose implied earlier as well. Do
the do the work. What you're talking about is, you know, perform. Get out
there, perform, and like we're professionals, so let's act
like it. Jorge, thank you so much for joining us, dude. I'm a little jealous of what you're doing right now. Very
proud. Ros, very proud of you, brother. He's drinking au
work hard. Work hard. Drink hard.
All right, guys. Well, we're closing out the year at the huddle. Wanted to thank again um everybody for being along with
us on this ride. We are the number one podcast in Flooring. No doubt about that. Don't forget to check out Live
Switch and be ready after the first year. We're going to be promoting uh the VTI heavy duty. Everybody should get on
that. Absolutely free for life and there's a lot of perks and uh we look forward to uh bringing that to the
market. My 2025 is I'm looking forward to 2026 and building on 2025 momentum.
taking some lessons and lumps that I learned and applying them in a positive manner and trying to you know bring
positivity not in this not in the you know kumbaya kind of way but like
looking at positive through my leadership and through my actions bringing positivity not just my words.
There you go. All right guys of action. See you guys. Thank you everyone. See you next year. So
stupid. Signing off. Had to say that.
