The Huddle - Episode 180 - Resilient Flooring: Where It’s Headed Next
This week on The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose break down where flooring is headed next and what installers, contractors, and business owners should be paying attention to.
From product innovation and installation methods to shifting demand and performance expectations, this episode takes a forward-looking look at one of the most impactful flooring categories in the market today.
Whether you’re installing resilient flooring daily or planning your next move as a business owner, this episode delivers practical insight to help you stay ahead of the curve.
At The Huddle Podcast, we’re focused on Forward Progress — bringing real, honest conversations that help flooring professionals adapt, grow, and lead in a changing industry.
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What is up guys? Welcome back to the huddle. The number one floor
flooring podcast. The number one flooring podcast. Number one podcast in flooring.
Hey, we are here every single week to help you guys gain forward progress in your career. Simply put, we're here to help
you win. For all our new viewers, welcome to the team.
What's up, fellas? Mr. Daniel and Jose Gonzalez, the Gonzalez brothers as they're often
referred to from Grand Theon, Michigan's. The Gonzos. What's up, guys?
The Gonzos. I had to run to my office and grab my
phone. So, I like sat down right right when the intro came up. Apologies for
that uh fumbling there. No, it's all good. I uh so I just called
ourselves the Gonzos, but our families each have our own nicknames. So my family is the Gonzos, his are the Val.
Crystal's family are the Larry's.
You guys all have different other sisters. The Chhatas. The Chhatas.
Well, it must be one heck of a family reunion.
Have you guys had a family reunion ever? Like four years ago. Yeah.
Longer than I do. We We don't We don't dare have one in my family. Like
getting all of those uh ridiculous people together in one one
room. I don't know how people do it all the time. It's so hard to coordinate that.
And it's hard. I know. Nutty. Well, today's uh topic is
real estate and renovations, how flooring impacts property value. Um we
reached out to a bunch of people to uh I should say I say we um the boys have
reached out I think Jose to several and uh we were unable to get our guests on
for the day, but we're going to we're going to make it through it. We understand um the flooring industry. Uh
we have a lot of relationships in the business and people who call and upgrade
their home right before they sell, that kind of stuff. So, we'll bring bring you some um bring you some good insights on
what is the best flooring to sell when somebody is looking to uh increase their
uh you know, property value before before they sell their house or something. or sometimes like myself, you
just want a lowmaintenance uh flooring that h you don't have to
deal with and it will look beautiful for years and years and years. So, Mr. Carlos, what's up?
What up, Carlos? Um, I I want to mention today's
sponsors. Uh, today we have Divergent Adhesives. uh we'll we'll uh give you a
little bit of a shout out. But at the end of the day, if you need a great
performing adhesive on these tough jobs, Divergent Adhesives is the place to go.
Go hang out with the Divergent himself, Sunny. Show him some love.
Show him some huddle love. Speaking of uh family reunions, that's actually our cousin right there, Israel,
over in Florida. Oh, yeah. Beautiful. Nice to meet you, Israel.
All right. Well, um few few housekeeping things. If you are
catching us on the YouTube, give us a like, subscribe, comment, share, all that good jazz. If you're here live,
make sure to comment and and give us your take on the topic or whatever topic. We're uh you guys know the huddle
style. We're just here to have a little bit of fun. um you know uh chatted up a little bit
about the topic. It usually is going to end up in like uh you know one of the
zones of our expertise which is you know flooring sales and particularly
installation. So you guys you guys been uh in the
business for a long time. You do a fair amount of residential still here and there. What is the does this topic come
up like with your homeowners when you're dealing with them that like what's going to add the value to my house? Do you
guys sell off of this? So, here's here's what it is is it it does come up with uh our real estate
buddies, right? Like they're trying to get a house to market and there's different different levels of acceptance
and there's uh long-term value, there's uh quick turnaround uh band-aid value.
Um, but it all depends on
like their goals or or what they're wanting to get out of it or the demographic or sometimes if it's
a if it's a home where uh the owner doesn't want to go anywhere, right? They're going to be there the next 10
years, uh, their value is uh, I want to say in the eye of the beholder, but
that's not necessarily true when it comes to the appraisal process. Yeah. Yeah,
unless you're staying there like you said. I mean, then then it is truly in the eye of the beholder
or are there needs um so like uh a home in in a subdivision, but the home is is
already um built for uh handicap accessibility. You know,
I was going to ask about uh aging in place if that you know, a couple years
back we had Elizabeth Caladrino on and she had mentioned I don't think it's been a couple years.
It seems like it, but when she was on, she uh she had mentioned, you know, this being
an emerging uh an emerging market in inside of our industry is the aging in
place. Um, have you guys ran across that much?
Um, I have not. I want to say I have, right? But
doesn't coincide with the um, let's hurry up and get it done as cheap
as possible. Yeah. Seems like most of our homes, and
I'll just be full disclosure, most of our homes are like, and we only do maybe a handful a year, but they're always
there's a designer and an owner, and I am there to make those two things match
up and and come to uh actually be able to produce a product they love. And um
so sometimes I'm reigning in the designer, sometimes I'm, you know,
releasing the owner to dream bigger, uh whatever. But so I don't get into like
residential replacement hardly ever. It's almost always a new home.
But the the with those clients, they they particularly it's more of a status
thing of their house than it is resale value, you know, like they
one of my clients, there's no way you would ever get him to put a piece of vinyl anywhere in his home. Like not not
a stitch and nothing nonwool and it's hardwood and tile everywhere.
Uh but it was more of a status thing. So, you know,
the the client that I found the most um uh open to this to the the thought
process that it I need to put a flooring in uh that's going to increase the value
of my home is the one that's going to stay there for a bit, but knows they're going to sell eventually. They want something beautiful and at the same time
they can refinish the hardwood right before they Right. They don't want to pay for a full replacement before they move.
Yeah. Yeah, it's like that that I'm I'm here. I'm going to be here for a few years, but you know, at the end of it, I
don't want to have to replace everything or change everything out and I want it to still be relevant and beautiful. Then
um that I have ran across uh uh several times and that's when I I always guide
them to hardwood. if you, you know, stay away from LVPs.
Uh, stay away from carpet if your intent is to increase the value of your home. Neither one of those LVP will take it up
a little bit from carpet. Um, because you you can't judge the the um quality.
Your average consumer cannot walk in a carpeted room and judge the quality of the carpet. So, there's no way to put a
value. You can put a $150 a yard wool carpet in your house and it's not going to increase the value a penny. You know,
it'll make your life, you know, better or whatever your your uh uh experience
with your home better, but not not not the actual value.
I was going to say is um after doing quite a few like insurance claims and
working with the adjusters and the companies and the value is capped, right? like you if
you redo your kitchen, you're only going to increase your value x amount of dollars and not over x amount of
dollars. Um, and they explained it to me um in a manner in which you can have a
custom kitchen, but just because it's custom to your liking doesn't mean that it's going to be attractive to more
people. That's why they have a cap of it's only going to add so much. Any any how do how do trends come into that?
Like if you're on trend, does it help? Not to your liking. Like you you still
like it obviously if you're going to put it in your home, but show it help to stay in trend.
Well, showability, right? So if if the home shows better and is trending, it's going to be more
attractive to everyone else who is really eating up what is being pushed on on social media or what everybody's
saying they like. So therefore, that that may have more value, which could
help with the bidding war, I guess. But it's still that paint is paint. It doesn't matter to me like what color it
is. It can be covered up. And a lot of people change the color of the paint anyway once they purchase a
home that isn't. And that's easy to do. That's why we're so impactful in this way, why we're even
having this conversation. I mean, painting you you like you said, so many people are going to repaint. Um,
but it's simple. It's easy. There's that's a a simple thing to do compared
to tearing out a bunch of flooring and
preparing a substrate to receive a new flooring. And there's all kinds of
complications there if you're moving from a hardwood to an LVP or something, you know, or a tile to an LVP. Uh like
there's a lot of you know floor prep involved and um are you sure? Because all on Facebook
people just go over it. So well you got to have a click floor. If you got a quick floor you can go over
anything. That's what they say.
Um you know I'll give an example. Um, I I went and measured a buddy's house, you know, about six months ago in the middle
of this past summer, and they have uh a really good installed hard tile
throughout their home, right? The kitchen into the uh the hallway, into the back areas, right, and into the
bathrooms, the the foyer, um, and some areas that were carpeted.
Uh, and then also nice hardwood floors that ab butt to it in all the bedrooms.
And uh excuse me, he wanted to cover it up with floating floor.
And I'm looking at I'm measuring it and I'm like, "Well, what do you want to do with this?" He was like, "Well, I just want to leave it just in case, you know,
we sell the house and we can tear it up." And I said, "Look, I'm gonna be
honest with you." I said, "If you just redo some of these spots of this grout, this is really solid, man. Like, this is
a good install." I said, "The grout's just a little little dirty. Like, you can you can spruce this up." And he was
like, "Well, I just want to bring more value." I said, "You know, we don't cover we don't cover gold up with with copper. You know what I mean?
That's what you're asking me to do is you're asking me to cover cover up a layer that copper copper coated gold coin."
Yeah. I was just like, "I never I never thought about it like that." Yeah. That's that's what I said.
That was my my finisher was unless you really want to cover it with something else just to protect it so it stays in
this condition. He was like, "No, no." And he and he did. He called me and said, "We decided not to move forward.
You're right. We're going to fix those couple spots, clean it up a little bit." And that's and they might put like rugs
in in the bedrooms with the wood floor. They were going to put rugs um in front of the bed where the children stepped
off or where they stepped off or in any of the walkways.
Yeah. There's there's this um you know, if you're trying to move a house fast, you might do that though, right? You
know, I mean, that's where I think you were getting earlier is that there's these it really depends on we're talking
specifically about adding value, but you can't help then bring other reasons why
people uh may make those decisions. I mean, I've walked into three/4 million
dollar houses that are LVP and it's cuz LVP is everywhere and people think it's
great and they they run with it. Well, you know, similar
similar that you put hardwood in that same house and you're like five times the cost, 10 times the cost, you know,
whatever. Um, you know, and so the the buyers are starting this just my
my uh my take as well as a little bit of insight from some agents. Um, the buyers
are starting to get a little smarter. They used to think like we could do the the LVP and they know they're not truly
fooling people, but uh it the the the
buyer of the house didn't really they knew it was LVP, but they didn't know the delta between the two. And it's like
information is like this. And so people get educated pretty quick and and uh it
seems like people are starting to realize that LBP is still a disposable
product. Like you can't refinish it. If it gets scratched up or it gets a huge gouge all the way across the floor or
something like this, you're replacing it. You know, a solid hardwood, you're not going to be doing that. You're going
to refinish it. A um a uh expensive carpet gets torn, you're replacing it.
you know, uh, tile, you better you gotta especially a good tile, you you gotta be
a gorilla on that stuff to mess it up, you know, if it's installed properly, which yes, guys, we're going to be
moving into installation about this, too. Uh, but if it's installed properly, it's
hard to beat a damn tile floor, you know, or a natural like travertine.
That's what I had in my house before we sold. We had travertine everywhere and hardwood in the bedrooms. And the only
carpet we had was on the stairs. Literally the stairs that led from
the travertine floor to a wood grained porcelain tile in the basement. That's my house. It was um owned before
by some guys that owned a hardwood flooring company and they put it was hardwood everywhere except for the
stairs. There's carpet. Yeah. And then my wife asked me the other day, she's like, "Hey, can we replace this carpet?" I said, "I will get to it
within the next three to five years." It's like a mechanic's car is always the worst running,
dude. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and and the I'll tell you and Jorge
um could probably speak to this hardwood stairs with a runner, those are back.
The 1800s kind of style that is fully back. The rods are starting to sell like
they're going up for stair rods and that whole old um kind of design is back,
baby. In a big way. I've went through some really have that Why do we veer from it? That's that's
like the I don't know. It's a great It's beautiful look though, man. It is. Yeah. And it's kind of timeless, you know?
It's Here it is right back. It's like subway tile. Yeah. And I'm I'm I'm over here. I'm seeing a lot of people like asking about
hardwood on a daily basis. hardwood this hardwood that refinishing and then it's like I want hardwood I'll throw a rug
down if I want but I can get rid of it and you can change it so easy you know I
mean repurpose a rug to another area I know people um who like to your point
Daniel they put rugs down and then they'll they'll like um uh rotate them I
guess would be the right word they'll take it this one from this room over there and move that one like and it
gives the house a whole new look just by moving the rugs around. So, it's
kind of, you know, just the the value of that, what you just said. So, let's talk about what value that added. Uh, recently, this
year, as a matter of fact, we went and did a runner. We replaced an existing runner at um at this couple's home.
They've had it for a very long time, and it was wool down the center of the
steps, you know, just it's a simple one, right? And you go up the steps, make a left, go all the way to the the top floor.
20 years ago, 20 plus years ago, this guy had the foresight to buy extra carpet in case they ever had to replace
that runner. Now, we had to do some piecing together and had to do some cutting and some binding, right? But he's like, "This
lasted 20 years. Why would I change from this wool carpet?" Um, and we did. We
got it cut, put it back on the steps, and he's like, "I expect these to last
way past my life." Yeah. Right. And that's the value right there. That like that's the long-term value.
And it might have been custom, but you know, it was one of those homes where, you know, a2 to3 million house and
everything was custom wood, custom everything in there. And that was what they were doing at the time and it
lasted. Why we veered from that, I don't know. And what Paul was saying earlier
too, right, like about what people want in their house, I'm also seeing people just be like,
I've seen I seen this exact thing in my friend's house. That's what I want over here. That's some wool steps that we did, some
LVT that we did, right? LVP. It's like, I seen this in my friend's house. I want this exact thing. It's like, um, I can
get you something that looks like it. They're like, nope, this is exactly what I want. You know, another another thing
that on the residential side, and I do have I I did do a little bit of uh thought and homework for the commercial
side that I want to bring up, but the last uh thing kind of idea uh
surrounding either moving your home fast or or um uh getting the most value
is, you know, probably the last 10 to 15 years. the open concept building was so
huge. It's still big. They're starting to kind of block off some areas now in home design, but uh having a hardwood
throughout or as opposed to like putting in and using rugs to to make spaces as opposed
to having and I say hardwood, it could be any permanent product. And that's one way you can just easily say valuable for
home price or not valuable. Is it a permanent product? Does it take a jackhammer or a demo machine to take it
up or is it, you know, not a permanent product? A carpet and LVP is not
permanent product. Uh hardwood is a permanent product. It's a fixed to your
home. Same with tile. But having a consistent product throughout and then
using rugs allows new homeowners to not have to make their furniture or their
their ideas of design fit within your parameters. Um, and this all came about
when I was building my house. I had hardwood in the kitchen. It was all open
like the the whole house. You walk in the front door, you can see the back door kind of thing.
And the so we had hardwood in the kitchen and down in the dining and then we had uh
hardwood partially right up to the hallway then carpet down the hallway and carpet in the front room and then uh
entry way of tile and it worked fine for our layout. Uh we also had the hardwood
come out past the kitchen bar about 3 or 4 foot so we could have some bar stools there. Well, when we went to go start
planning on selling our home and we we weren't sure we were going to sell it in the next two years or the next 10 years,
but we knew we were going to eventually sell. That's when we went one product
throughout. I mean, we have travertine, we had travertine in the kitchen, living room, dining room, down the hallways,
and then you can arrange it however you please. So, it just gives some some
freedom for the new people to see their their uh furniture or their design in
the new home. Um, so I thought I'd point that out as well as one of the benefits of kind of like keeping a consistent
product throughout and not like, you know, boxing people in cuz they have to
then imagine their furniture in the way you have your flooring designed. or at least it was the case in my house and
our realtor, you know, said that was one of the smartest things we did because people can come in and truly imagine
their the furniture layout however they please. Yeah. And that's um one of those things too where you walk
into a place and you know what's more attractive or where or it seems uniform
or you look down or up and you have four different colors of paint, three
different types of flooring that all intersect, right? You're sectioning off the house without putting walls up.
Yeah. Accent walls and stuff like that are another good uh example of like we
had a couple and they were our realtor said, "You know, when we did go to sell, they were like, "Just paint them. Just
paint paint those. The rest of the house it looks gorgeous, but people are going to you're going to you may lose that one
buyer that's willing to make an offer even because not most pe most buyers don't think like us. They're attorneys
or, you know, an accountant or a nurse or something. they go in there, they're like, "That wall's ugly." If they don't
like the color, even though you loved it, it's a turnoff right away. Turn them off right away. So, this
vanilla box kind of idea uh is the best way to to get your home sold, right? And that's why I like that
everything is going back to the the warm tones, right? The neutral, the gray. Um
little bit of of gray, but everything is what what do they call the millennial gray? Look at our walls even at our
office are are the millennial gray. Not not the blue violet gray that they got
and white and black everywhere. We got we got to bring back avocado. We got to bring that back. Get some avocado
toilets back up in here. Some of the old uh yellow yellow tubs.
So, I I was going to bring up I I had a conversation recently. This is on um
multif family. This might help some of you if you do sell flooring to multif family and you you know we could all say
uh you know what do they mostly put in? Well they put in six millimeter two you
know six mill 2 millimeter like and they just want the cheapest of the cheap.
Well that is starting to change as well. We've done quite a few multifamilies now
with a some with 5mm 20 mil wear layers like in a multif family. Um so
nobody wants to move all the time now. Well, it's it's all dollars and cents.
So they show um you know when these proformas that these guys have to
provide when they go to sell. So a lot of the build people who build a multif family, they're looking to sell that
thing in three to five years to some conglomerate.
The goal now is like how many tenants can I get through this floor before I
replace it? It's one of the most expensive things you're going to replace, right? Repainting is cheap and
then flooring. So carpet is the cheapest, but you got to replace it after every tenant. LVP
will last you longer uh depending on the quality, but it'll get you maybe a
couple of tenants. Well, these guys are starting to realize that, hey, this property, their capital expense to um to
rent ratio is way lower than other properties, which means I'm going to
make more profit as the conglomerate that buys this property and runs it. And so that is ringing true. So you guys out
there that are in the commercial or the multif family world, you can upsell into a nicer product. Um, and what we just
tell them is you're going to get you can get multiple multiple tenants depending on you can always have that scrub that
really just, you know, doesn't care and scratches the tar out of the floor. But for the most part, you put a decent LVT
or a good LVT in. LVP, LVT, um, with a good wear layer. And if you went with a
thicker, you know, five mil, you're going to have some sound deadening there. And then on top of that, you're
going to get you can get five, six, eight tenants out of the same floor,
less disruption, quicker turnaround, less downtime, lower uh capital outlay
toward uh to rent ratio. And so that that is uh that is one piece of this
this conversation where I can uh tell you uh from experience is
starting um I wouldn't say starting but rings true. It's just starting to gain way
more momentum because for so long, all we ever did in a multif family, I'd love
your guys's input on this. But all we ever did was literally six, maybe 12,
maybe 12 millimeter or 12 mil wear layer with a 2 mm or maybe 2 and 1/2. Now
we're doing 20 mil wear layer, two and a half on the main floor, 5 mm, 20 mil on
the upper floors for a little bit of additional sound dead sound. Yeah. And it's it's there's a lot of
them going that way. The last three we've done have been 5 millimeter and it's not the same owner. It's the the
the concept of of when they're building it. Um they're not because because a guy
will build a a multif family and he he'll plan to sell it in three to five years, right? After he's shown on a
proforma that hey, this property is a good cash flowing business. But they they're going to replace the floor two
or three times. And it's not just the cost of the floor. I wanted to hearken back to what I said. It's also less
downtime. that that unit can be painted and cleaned in a day and back on the market
on high high uh high desire highly desirable um uh multif family units. So
that if you're down a week or two less and you you have that quick turnaround
plus you have a floor that you don't have to pay to replace, it's just a clean and go. Um, yeah, that's that's
that's ringing very true. So, you can upold to a nicer product on these multifamilies.
I think when we were doing multifamilies before, it was like a lot of sheet vinyl and not a good sheet vinyl, just a cheap
inexpensive sheet vinyl just loose uh fiber floor kind of style or
fiber. I shouldn't have said fiber floor. That's indicating a manufacturer. I'm sorry. perimeter loose lay something
like that. One drop and then and then you know the the inexpensive carpet everywhere else and
then the the stuff that's been coming across the desk lately. You're right. It's they are and it's they're not
putting carpet in any of the bedrooms either. They're like LVT everywhere.
Yep. That that is we're on this that's on the same thing. It's like
the only LVT or the only carpet that they're putting is in the common areas, right? And it's usually a carpet tile.
I got a question for you, Paul. Do you down the hallways in particular if it's an enclosed facility down the hallway
that way does the sound? Do you see a lot of lightweight concrete on multilevel buildings? Uh when it
comes to multif family or or is it all concrete? Like we see a lot of a lot of JIPrete here. um if it's not like a a
big a big uh commercial type uh build where they're in a hurry.
Well, the answer is yes. A lot of it is uh either gypret or wood just a wood
subfloor um you know a 3/4 inch tongue groove wood. Although I was on the phone
with a client this week uh and they were asking for some solutions on a
multifamily project down in Houston that they're using half inch non- tongue and
groove floor and my client was stepping on a seam and it's he's doing this and
it's just like and he's like how do I how do I
make sure that this LVT or LVP they're putting in is going to last? how are
they gonna patch I mean you could literally see right through the the crack in the floor
he's like how are they gonna patch this and how's it I was like so I there was this big conference call and we we all
chatted it up and I'm not actually doing the job I'm just advising on it um and
the flooring guy down there says uh yeah that's how a lot of them are built here and I was like you don't tongue and
groove and you're only using half inch that doesn't even meet the ASM for LVP.
Dude, what happens if someone upstairs has a dog? It's supposed to be quarter inch
tongue and groove as the minimum. Like, how are you get how are they getting away with it? That's just how they're
built down here. So, at the end of the day, my best recommendation was to fully
glue a five ply underllayment. fully glue, screw the seams and staple the
field because you got to patch seams anyway. Make sure you leave your, you
know, your your expansion gap between your your uh your underllayment and
fully glue that with a with a wood glue, with a urethane wood adhesive,
small notch. Um, you know, and uh glue and screw that thing as we like to say,
and it'll probably tighten it up. But man, can you imagine? But
um yeah, that got off course a little bit, but it was just amazed me how sometime I mean what I said about them
wanting to put a nicer floor in they they still had a 12 mil going in. So it
wasn't even the bottom. They the sub substrate was the bottom of the barrel
and then they're putting a couple levels above bottom of the barrel uh in as the
as the product. So, well, that goes to say that a properly installed floor brings more value than a
poorly installed floor. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, exactly what I just what we
were talking about earlier is um you can upsell these um and like
why do you want to upsell? well, you're probably going to make a little more profit, but dealing with nicer product is just easier to deal with. The nicer
products are easier to install. Um, so you can upsell them
based on the fact that they're going to get more tenant um turnaround on that
same floor than they would before, but it always goes back to proper installation. You can take a nicer
product that's not properly installed and it it's not going to add the value at all.
You know what I mean? because they're going to lose their their cap table because this is data. Nobody's feeling
about it. It's like how how much money do I spend on this facility
from a maintenance and and get ready standpoint versus how much rent am I
collecting? And there's a ratio there always. You got faucets and plumbing
fixtures and, you know, all this stuff and flooring and paint and everything you got to do to keep to make a unit
feel brand new again when somebody goes to move in. Um, the the lower that ratio
is, the better the more more profit the operator makes off his facility. Every
dollar he puts in flooring is a dollar he doesn't put in his pocket. And uh so
that upfront thing uh really pays back and it does have to obviously be
properly installed. I think too too long in the um multifamily market has it been
cheap product, cheap labor. We used to call that apartment carpet.
Yeah, that's that apartment carpet. You hold it up to the sun and you can see through it
that you can rip with a knee kicker.
Yeah, I don't see much of that anymore. That was the all the We used to do apartment replacement back in the day.
I don't get into that market because it's way too cheap. But um we used to be in that market and
it was all carpet and they just accepted that like we and that that is just a
race to the bottom. It's like we have to have the cheapest. Like I think one uh
customer we were furnishing material and labor for $9 a yard.
Now this was back in the early 2000s, but like
their their thought was it's going to have to be replaced as soon as this tenant moves out. Uh LVP has changed
that game a little bit and I I I like the way it's going right now. I hope it continues because I think it's better
work for for installers and on top of that it's you know providing a little
extra value for the a lot of extra value for the uh property owner and of course
you know we make a little bit better of a buck.
Do says that cheap LVT and cheap labor is still king today unfortunately.
Yeah, I don't disagree with you as far as it being king. I just see a a
uprising a bit of sorts like big time. To go back to
your question uh Jose about like the the
uh substrates we've also seen um at least in our area
we didn't uh for a long time have that like uh commerce on the first floor. So,
say a restaurants and and um little boutique shops and a maybe a community
bank and then apartments above it or condos above it. But we're starting to
see more of that now like um what do they call like planned community living kind of thing where even like a little
corner grocery stores there. Uh you see that a lot. I think that that's one of those things
too that that's been around here for a long time so it's really common to me. Oh, really? To see. Yeah.
Super common. So, I'm not I like that setup. A lot of people that I that I grew up with lived above their family's
store or someone's store or um a vacuum shop like the base of the downstairs was
a vacuum shop and electronic shop next door with three stories of apartments added on. That that's normal for me.
Well, back on as we're talking about like adding value to property, um that's
the one really like experience I have with uh is a multif family. I think most
of our commercial work is very architect and design driven. So, you know, they don't they want
something that's just going to last a long time. They don't want to have to tear down all their cubicles and replace our carpet in five years, you know. Uh,
so it's more like long-term thinking for the most part. Don't get me wrong, that's not always the case, but for the
most part. So, I don't have good examples in the commercial world other than the multif family thing, and I have
I'm good experience with it. Um, but homeowners
and that type of uh um deal. I I would
say one more point is I was also told if you're going to spend money,
spend it on your kitchens and your bathrooms. You know, tearing out a prefab shower, fiberglass shower unit
and putting in a full tiled shower in a nice, you know, median in medium type of home uh is a great move for getting high
value out of your house. And um so just a quick quick uh note there on the tile
side of the world. Yeah, that's uh that's actually good advice. I mean, you're not going to want to go, you know, buy a a single wide or
double wide trailer and do that to your trailer. Uh that's really not going to much more value.
And you don't want your million-doll house having a bathroom that could be mistaken for a trailer,
right? No offense to trailer uh living in a trailer home. I did for a lot of my life. So, but it's just economics.
Oh, I did too. I saved a lot of money doing that. Spent a lot of money, too, because you
never wanted to be there.
So, Doyle says, "Question, what see that uh school that school systems are using
in your area?" Now, I I would say there's two things. Um, a lot of them have moved to the LBT and they started
doing that years back. They're starting to realize that like, okay, the problem is it is going to get scratched because
it's a school. Uh, where VCT could be stripped and waxed, uh, even though they
have an annual, you know, they save a lot on what they call life cycle cost.
So, you know, over the course of 10 years, your VCT is much more expensive
than your LVT. even for a decent LBT because the labor you got to put into it. Yeah.
Every year they're stripping and waxing 75,000 square foot
and the product was is soft as we all know and so it'll crack and those kinds of
things. But so LVT and quartz tile is starting to like grab on. It's it's as expensive or
more than uh LVT, but it's it it's got a
wear layer. So you don't have to um strip and wax it, but once you have to
like you don't have you don't have like VCT you had to wax like right away. They
recommended as soon as it was installed 48 hours later strip the uh factory seal
off of it, seal it and apply three to five coats of wax, right? Cross linked acrylic wax. You guys probably remember
all that. I don't know if Michigan still has big VCT projects in their schools,
but that that was the recommendation. So, you got a a 75 cents to a dollar on
top of the cost of your VCT. It seems like it's cheap and it is for your
building, but then your maintenance piece, the maintenance cost. Yeah. Right. always built up
and and then the training that's required for the maintenance if they're not used to it because that's where a lot of it goes wrong and that's where
all the the costs add up. But um over here we have a mix. People are doing
glue direct LBT. Um what's lasted the longest is going to be
Terzo or Hard Tile. And it's it's kind of almost switching back to that too to the the resonous
Turzo now. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh yeah, dude. We've done a lot more tile. We did a
huge um uh uh high school and I'm I mean
other than the the classrooms almost some of the hallways, but all the
commons areas like like big open spaces, this school
particularly was kind of built more like a college. Um it had uh we put tile everywhere. 24x 24
tile everywhere. I think it was 40 50,000 feet of of 2 by
2 uh porcelain. And so you're right, like a permanent
product. Turzo, that's a great point, dude. Commercially, but it's so expensive.
Uh I think there's some other options uh out there that look like Trazzo. That's where Quartz Tile came in. They started
coming out with them looks. Uh, do you guys remember Fritz Tile? Oh, dude. Matter of fact, we're right
down the street from the armory that I installed 20 something years ago with that and uh microbiology labs. We did
some government projects. Yeah, I do like the way it looked. I didn't like to
install it because I had to learn as we went, but I like it. Yeah.
Going back to your your comment, says you can install Wilton in a trailer double wide, but it's got to be double
wide. Can't be a single wide. So, and then he does make a good Doyo
says right here, "What about polished concrete?" And we do see an uptick in polished concrete everywhere. There's um
retail like it rules in retail. I haven't seen as much of it around here in schools. I think it's like, you know,
a um it's just too industrial, I think, for
the educators have this idea of the the space filling like a a learning a
learning space, you know? Uh so I haven't seen much polished concrete in the education space, but
man, it runs retail. all those big jobs I used to install back in the day. I can't count how many Kroger stores,
Dillons is what they're called around here, but Kroger stores and um uh uh
Walmarts and Targets that I've done over the years and and VCT that are all now
polished concrete with the with the permanent VCT stain, the grid stained into the concrete.
Yeah. Or they'll do barn dominiums. Oh yeah, barn doinium. So, my buddy does
does those and and they do a lot of stained uh concrete, polished concrete.
Um, and they're even doing the cutting the patterns and designs and grout it. Yeah. And doing all of that
like um I I am not a fan. Not a fan. Around here there's some
barnaminium stuff go up, but we're in tornado country here. And if you ain't
got a basement, you you and you're in a metal building, like
that's not a good mix for a place gets, you know, 100 tornadoes a year. And uh
so we don't we don't have as big a barnaminium thing, but the the those are almost always seem to be polished
concrete as well. I'm not a fan of polished concrete in a home. I just think that, you know, if I want to feel like I'm in
a Walmart, I'll go to Walmart or Target, you know? I mean, like they just feel cold. Uh to me you put all the
institutionalized. Yeah. That because you I see a lot of the architects even over here are like oh
we're going to do this bathroom in this place and we're going to use a tile that looks like polished concrete or we're
going to use a tile that looks like terazzo or it's I mean it's smart right?
Because a lot some of these places it's on gyprete or it's on wood and it's like all right I I understand that. But when
you can just polish the concrete, why are you going to use something that looks like polished concrete? Yeah. And Trazzo um at least I mean you
go to Vegas or any place that there's most of the buildings Trzo like you can
do the design is unlimited and it's it can be
absolutely stunning looking polished concrete like what you can stain it some
colors and polish a bit stained. Like and if you stamp it,
you are now taking a structural piece of your property and permanently changing
what it is. Like the only way to like then go put something in over a polished
con like a stamped and polished concrete floor in a home or something or in your barnaminium Jorge is self-leveling that
sucker. If you want to put something in over that and it's stamped and and like
sealed now you're you're you're like shot blasting and self-leveling to put
anything else. You lose all like um any movement like and it's
thing to go then put in say you want to change it out for an engineered hardwood. You don't that's not an easy
task, right? Even polish concrete now you got to scarify it or you got to open
up the pores so that your adhesive will stick. Like you just I think limit yourself on that. Um that's pro I'm very
biased. I don't like polished concrete. Um I don't mind it in retail places, but
in a home or a school or someplace that's meant to feel warm and inviting,
I think it does the opposite. But in when it looks good, it does look
good. Yeah, it's pretty stunning when it's when it's pretty. So now I know like if I ever have
polished concrete somewhere in my home and you come to my house, I can I know that you're just going to be sitting there like, "Oh yeah, this looks good."
And in the back of your head, you're going to be like, "I can't wait to go home. I can't wait to leave." I'll be like, "I know what I'm going to
get him. I'm gonna get him an area rug." Doyo says unless you're floating it, but
even then that stamp is so out of tolerance now. Yeah, if it's ifist it's a full if it's
a real stamp you I mean you can float over regular polish but if you are
stamping it I mean you got to do something. Now not to say that plenty of people don't and then end up with a
failure but you you're supposed to do something.
So I got a question. Do you think do you think that this these new um resonous flooring this epoxy flooring with all
the um like designs that are underneath it where they're going a little bit thicker are adding value or would that
be more of a custom, you know, because they're adding a theme pretty much and you can't really change that without
changing the entire thing. And the same thing goes with like uh the penny floors
I've been seeing that everyone's doing to which is pretty cool. Well, it's been like that for a while, but I wonder if
those actually add value or if that is just looked at as a custom piece where a
it's a new floor, you can clean it easy, but Well, it's one of those things where you you move into there and then you cover
it up and then someone else discovers it 50 years later and they're like, "This is the coolest thing I've ever seen."
Yeah. I I but I mean my opinion on it is
even with tile or a hardwood, if you go super exotic with it, you're running the
risk of people not liking it, right? And you can have a marble floor throughout
your entire home and it have a hard time selling because nobody likes green
marble or pink marble or a very small subset of people do. Um, but if you go
white or beige or grayge and you put that in, people can design around it
area rugs and stuff to make it pop. And so I think that any of those products
that you put in um you you got to be mindful that you
you can still mess it up from a design perspective even if it is a permanent product that will add value to your
house if it's one of those things that's like yikes I'm taking that out as soon as I buy or I'd have to replace this. I
can't live with this hunter green white veined marble everywhere even though
it's brand new, you know, looks gorgeous or what have you. Um, so I think you
still got to be mindful of that. The epoxy floors, I think they belong in your garage, maybe in your man cave or
your basement uh store. I have seen an uptick in people talking about doing it in their basement. Like I
don't want to put anything else down here. And the good thing is is that you can do you're putting epoxy anyways,
right? You might as well spend a couple more dollars to make sure you're covered on the moisture and then you don't have to worry about it.
Yeah. Do the moisture thing if you're putting epoxy in your basement. I'll tell you that. I've seen quite a few uh
Oh, it probably originated on Tik Tok, but I'm not on Tik Tok. I see most of that stuff on like uh Instagram.
Instagram. But they're peeling up sheets of epoxy.
Like two guys pulling an entire room up of epoxy
because it was in a basement maybe was prepped properly or not
prepped properly. I'll tell you one of those type of products. If you watch this uh I'm speaking to our audience, if
you're watching and you're going to do an epoxy, you better vet that guy. uh he
better have a high quality like you better be able to prove that he
knows what he's doing because if it goes bad you won't know right away and when it goes bad the whole floor is done you
know and he's on to his next deal and
that there's so many of these little epoxy companies uh doing garages and basements and bathrooms and stuff and
it's it got its start like the metallic floors in the man caves, right? Guys
buying a a a barn or tossing a metal building up to get away from life for a
minute and watch football game and they put the metallic epoxy in. Awesome. It looks great there. Uh I just don't
personally think that um and it's got to be sparingly used for my taste in a
home. But hey, I'm just one guy. I mean, there's plenty of people that love that stuff.
It's amazing. lady in here today, too. It's amazing what they can do. Have you seen some of that stuff they do on walls
that and that make it look like a marble a piece of That is fascinating. I
how they you just see them run over it one million times and then at the end it looks just like a marble slab or
something. Yeah, dude. And they're artists, man. They're doing the veining and all that stuff and then they polish that out and
add something and polish it out and be, you know, however long it takes to
polish. None of it originated over here. I could tell you all that artwork came from overseas. Yeah. It's freaking cool stuff.
Yeah. So, getting back to the the topic. So like from what I've been told what we're
talking about here is the permanent surfaces are the ones that are adding the value but we understand that there's
u the eye of the beholder like what is the purpose of this this uh commercial
building what is the purpose of this home what is the intention are we replace are we having tenant turnaround
or are we looking for long term so that I guess design I mean like you said it's If it's
a permanent product, it's probably going to add value, but you still have to consider design. Um, and then like
there's just a plethora of opinions in the retail world. the example I used on
the um on the multifamily, it's just data like you know how much
money do I spend and how much rent do I collect and that that number I hope they
keep like evaluating properties that way because I like doing those big 60 70 100,000 foot 5 millimeter jobs
they get easier and easier, huh? That's right. And they do see the value. So, I mean, that's a great great part of
it, I would say. Are you guys Do you guys ever see floating floors in apartments?
Uh, yeah. I I passed on the last one that had them. I I
don't even want to bid it. I don't either. I just don't there it's just a not just a risk but it's like
they're gonna we've done float we quit doing floating floors altogether in
commercial we do there's no such thing as a floating floor to us. Yeah. If you call it to be floated we're going
to send you a recommendation to fully glue it. Even if you stick with that same product we want you to use the full
glue method. We've had too many failures over the last, you know, decade or so.
Uh, last three years probably. We haven't, we just don't
free float. I'll even pay for the adhesive and the extra labor it cost to fully glue it to just not have the
problem later. I mean, it's a problem, dude. They're gonna call you. This sounds hollow. Well, no [ __ ]
Well, you know, part of the problem is that really, it sounds hollow. it just sitting on top of an a substrate. Yeah,
it does sound hollow. Part of the issue, too, is that these uh manufacturer reps or or sales reps are
still telling people that it's okay to do it in certain spaces depending on the amount of traffic. And it's just it's
not. And there's some pretty big names that um out there um both on the manufacturer and the client side that
are still doing it even though the failure rate is really high. And maintenance comes into it, too. We I've
told this story before on the huddle, but um we had a client that we did a big cafeteria for him in LVP and it was
floating. Manufacturer will be left off here, but at the end of the day, it was a
maintenance deal that it started cupping everywhere. And I was like, man, I test
this for moisture plus we like, how is this? And it looked horrific. By the
time they called me, edges were breaking off, stuff was separating. It had become a problem. It was a corporate facility,
their dining area, the big corporation. Well, I um
I go watch them. I go eat there one day. I asked if I could eat there. I'll watch him clean up afterwards. And the guy is
coming out. I mean, the water is so hot in his bucket that you see the steam rolling off of it. And I watch him start
mopping the floor. And then I asked him, I was like, "Hey man, um uh where how
hot's that water?" He goes, "Boiling." I was like, "How do you get it boiling?" He's like, "I take it directly out of a
boiler that we have set for like or a spet that they have set for super hot
water. So they're taking boiling water essentially and taking a thermoplastic
free floating thermoplastic product through these temperature cycles like that, tossing
212 degree water on it and you do that, you know, a few times that product
starts reacting. It's a thermoplastic product and it failed because of that. We end up peeling the skin off the tomatoes. It
works to clean the tomatoes. Why wouldn't it work to clean the floor? Yeah, exactly. Well, it cleaned the
floor. That's that's why they kept doing it. You know, it's funny. Boiling water
will clean a lot of stuff. But the problem is is that it completely ruined
the floor. So the the free floating stuff in general, I don't even know if a
full glue down product would have lasted under that condition. But just point being is free floating floors are just
too susceptible and we've had too many failures and we just are like, "All
right, you don't want to glue it down, we're going to glue it down for you."
Oh, I was popping and locking, dude. Don't do that again, Paul.
Okay. Hey, I bet you could break dance, too. I used to have a back in the day, baby.
Bring some cardboard and a beanie for you to wear, bro. I want to see you spin. Little shoulder roll.
All right, guys. Well, that's uh we have come to the end of our podcast here talking about uh bringing value to your
property, whether it's residential, commercial property, uh and and knowing what floors and kind of uh the the ins
and outs of doing that and and how to get the most value out of it. Picking the right flooring for a couple dollars
more that might just increase your home value. So, that's what this episode was about. We appreciate everybody for
commenting. We Show me your Skittles. You're not ready for that rainbow.
Uh very very much appreciate all the comments and give us a like, subscribe on our social channels and continue to
support us. Do not forget to support our sponsors, today's sponsor, Divergent
Adhesives. Again, if you need a an adhesive when you're up against that the
the wall with, you know, um a different sight conditions and different stuff
like hook up with uh the divergent over there at Divergent Adhesives. Uh quick
shout out to NFCT and Shag Tools. And that ends our podcast for the day.
Always uh thanks to Daniel and Jose for their their expertise and bringing so
much to the table. Insight, not expertise, just insight. Oh, you guys have the expertise and that's why you can bring the insight.
So, we'll see uh Yep. We'll see you guys at Ty. And uh that's in the end of
January in Las Vegas. So, we'll see you guys there. Uh anybody who is not going,
you should consider it because Ty is pretty awesome. You can come hang out with us. I'll buy you a drink.
Come tell me I said that and what episode number this is and I'll buy you a drink.
All right, guys. We'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
