The Huddle - Episode 177 - WFCA’s Role in Shaping Installer Success
This week on The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose sit down with Scott Humphrey, President & CEO of the World Floor Covering Association (WFCA), for a transparent and insightful conversation about how WFCA is influencing the flooring industry from the ground up.
From advocacy and education to workforce development and industry leadership, Scott shares the mission, challenges, and future vision behind WFCA’s efforts to support installers and elevate the trade.
If you’ve ever wondered what WFCA actually does for installers — or what’s coming next — this episode delivers real clarity, honest dialogue, and forward-focused insights.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
WFCA’s role in shaping installer success across the U.S.
How advocacy, training, and leadership initiatives impact the trade
The biggest challenges facing the industry — and how WFCA plans to address them
What installers, business owners, and leaders can expect from WFCA in the years ahead
This is a must-watch for installers, educators, and anyone passionate about strengthening the future of the flooring industry.
Why This Episode Matters: At The Huddle, we’re committed to Forward Progress — creating conversations that help installers learn, grow, and shape a stronger industry for the next generation.
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What is up, guys? Welcome back to The Huddle, the number one podcast in Flooring, where we're here here to help
you win and gain forward progress in your career. Simply put, we're here for
you, moving your your uh careers forward. Sorry, I uh got a little popup
here. My bad, guys. Uh, for all of our new viewers, welcome to the team. Happy Thanksgiving and happy birthday
to the hostess with the mostess, Mr. Daniel Gonzalez.
My daughter said I'm 100 years old today. Yeah. Well, you'll be that age from here
on. It sounds like today's sponsors, Divergent and NFCT. If
you need a great adhesive for your flooring projects or you need those, you know, you got those tough timelines or
tough projects, tough substrates, look to Divergent to fill all your adhesive needs. Don't forget the NAFCT when
you're looking to get trained and improve your career through quality. I'm
talking the best training you can get when it comes to things like flash coing, heat welding, sheet vinyl. uh
they do many other trainings, but they are particularly outstanding at that. I want to welcome today's guest and my uh
podcast co-hosts, Mr. Daniel and Jose Gonzalez, and today's special guest, Scott Humphre with the WFCA. Welcome,
Scott. May have a little delay. Can you hear
me, Scott? Okay. So, we are a little bit delayed
here, I think. Uh, let me see if I can fix this thing. Gentlemen, how are you?
Can you hear me? Okay. Yeah, I can hear you fine. Okay. Does Scott's audio go away again?
I think we just got a little delay going. We're going to give Scott a chance to introduce himself in the WFCA right now.
Yeah, it's freezing up pretty bad to me, guys. We can see you just fine. Can you wing
that? Well, hey guys. Um, listen, it's pleasure to
be with you. Happy Thanksgiving.
Can you hear us? Let me know when you want me to start, Paul, because I'm y'all are freezing up bad on me, and I'm wondering if I go
You think if I take my picture off that it'll help the signal?
Try that.
I think it might. Let's just see. Okay, let's try it now and see if that's
any better. Can you hear us now?
Yeah, you hear me? Okay. Yep. Yeah. Ran says it looks good. I think you got a delay over there, Scott. Uh,
looks like the the chat is live and they can hear you. So, go ahead and
let's introduce yourselves. I'm going to give you a little bit of a um a chance to kind of go into the first question so
that this delay doesn't impede as much. But I think uh I wanted to ask you, how
does the WFCA, as our topic today with the WFCA's role in shaping installer
success, how does the WFCA's members view their installation professionals?
This was a question brought up. Do they view them as do the retailers view their
installers as a necessary evil or valued partners? That's a good question. And do you want
me to do a brief intro of WFCA first just so everybody do an intro? Uh I'm sorry Paul
you broke up pretty bad on me. So if I don't get the question right I'll re ask you guys to make sure. So guys thank you
again for the opportunity to be with you. I admire what you do. I appreciate you being a voice for the industry and especially for our our professional
technicians in the industry. It means uh the world to me that we have a voice like that because before you we really
didn't. Um so the WFCA is a unique organization. We're kind of an umbrella
organization. Uh, initially the WSCA's focus was independent flooring retailers. We realized that retailers
can't be profitable and exist without a good installation team. And so we
acquired CFI, key assets of CFI many years ago. And so we have CFI, we have
FCB, the technology component that allows people to communicate businessto business. And uh I think the new term is
B2B 4C businessto business for consumers. And so we're working a lot on
that what happens with AI. We also have FCITS is an acquisition we made almost a
year ago. And NFIC which kind of falls a little bit under the umbrella of CFI
Natural Fibers. Obviously you guys know that better than me. Listen, I'll I'll admit to you right now, I'll be speaking
a somewhat foreign language because even though I have a lot of experience in the industry, my dad owned a carpet mill. I
started working in it when I was seven. I do not have installation experience. I've I sold it. I've worked corporately
at Shaw for 25 years. uh but I have the utmost in respect and it's one of the
reasons I wanted to make sure that we sent a message to the industry by acquiring CFI that installation is not
just something we have to do it's essential for the future of our industry and I I'll tell you quite frankly I
think it's essential for the future of retail I think the biggest challenge we face is if we can't I mean I look right
right now and we can talk about this more but if you look at what's happening with immigration right now I was talking to a retailer last week who has stores
in Charlotte. He said he could only get 10% of his product installed. People weren't showing up because they're
afraid of the repercussions of showing up. And you know, we're in DC all the time fighting that battle, trying to
find a way for people that are here just looking for an opportunity
to stay here and work, you know, to to find a pathway to legalization, whether that's a pathway to citizenship or not.
I think a lot of people get hung up on that. But I think, you know, there has to be a penalty for coming over. I get
that. Um I'm all for building the wall, but I say let more people in and and then utilize them. Training them in a
skill that if they choose to go home, you benefited their country and ours. So anyway, I say all that to say this. If
we don't fix installation, ultimately you force the manufacturer to create products that don't need
professional installation, which hurts the world, but also hurts retailers. Because if I can get product
that doesn't need installation, I don't need a retailer either. I'll just send that product directly to the consumer's home. And so this isn't a small issue.
I've had people get on to me before because I called it an installation crisis. Well, listen, if it wasn't before with what's going on with
immigration right now, it certainly is now. And so, we've got to find a solution. And part of the solution is
people valuing the role that professional technicians play. And we've never been real good in this industry
promoting that before. But that's the role I want us to play. Well, that's one of the most important things that we as
the huddle as well as our other companies that we all are part of. You know, Daniel and Jose being the owners
of preferred flooring up in Grand Rapids. I own a flooring company down in Witchah. Also, uh go as it's known
currently, go Carrera, soon to be trade tap and the verified trade index and these things. They're all aimed at we we
always uh talk about the need for um well on the immigration issue we we
believe like there has to be a smooth easy path for people who want to come
here contribute to uh America through their labor and uh just provide a better
life for themselves. There has to be a smoother path for that. And um I agree
that a lot of this is going to uh keep shaking out where more and more stores
are not going to be able to get their flooring installed. And it's not just by uh illegals. It's by legals who just
don't want to risk themselves even like I know I know people who are here legally that are still fearful because
they just are it's a un it's kind of uncharted territory. And I I think
that's a problem. And then just one more point is on your um on your point about
retailers almost going extinct if they don't help in the solution of this is
the increase in online sales. Uh the the
most recent study says somewhere between 20 and this is kind of a wide margin so I'm I'm not sure um which way to go on
it which side of the scale but it's somewhere between 27 and 43% increase
from uh last year over the last 18 months essentially in online re sales.
So, this is they're buying it from an online retailer and just having it shipped to their house and they're
finding a friend or do trying to do it themselves. So, that kind of speaks to what you were talking about, Scott.
It it does. So you guys one of those items uh sorry to interrupt here but that's just one of those items that I
think uh with the power of social media uh and everybody has information at
their fingertips. It's not anything that we're going to get rid of. But we as uh as uh artisans, as installers, as
mechanics, um we we know our worth and our value. We do understand that in
order to uphold any of the manufacturers uh standards, there's there's a set of guidelines that are set uh that must be
followed. And who knows what that's going to do to the industry as far as the manufacturers because they know that
when the they advertise as DIY, they know that the the chances of failure are
substantially higher if it's a individual purchasing themselves and installing themselves or with a friend
or with a family. Um I mean same same concept with me doing you know a water pump or a
thermostat. I'm not a mechanic. I'm just handy, right? I can't guarantee I know
exactly what I'm going to doing. Do I use a torque wrench? No. But if I want it done like that, got to go.
Yeah. Yeah. We think the solution is exactly the opposite. We think that instead of
bypassing professional installation, what we ought to be doing is requiring it.
We think that manufacturers should be mandating that for their warranty to be valid, that warranty should mandate that
you have to be a trained technician installing the product. And I always when I say things like that, people go,
"We can't do that." Yeah, you can. Just, you know, it's like Steve Jobs. When Steve Jobs, they said he had this belief
and the belief was that anything was possible. So when he decided to put glass on the outside of the iPod, people
told him he was crazy. It'll break. And he said, "I surely there's got to be a glass that won't break." And so he goes
up to Corning and finds out they have this thing called Gorilla Glass. And so he goes and just sits the Corning
president doesn't even know who he is. He just sits outside his office and he says, "Hey, what's the what's the deal?"
He said, "Listen, I'm not leaving till I talk to you." He said, "You got a product I need." So he goes in, he presents to this guy and he says,
"You've got this product. It's glass that won't break." And he said, "I I need it." And he said, "Yeah, that was an experiment we did over in Japan.
That's nothing we do on a regular basis." and he said, "Don't be afraid. You can do it.
You're about to." Yeah. And I think that's exactly and that's what happened. The guy got on the phone
and he said, "Whatever you run on the line, quit running it because we're going to start running Gorilla Glass." I think we got to quit telling ourselves
what we can't do. The reality is all you have to do is say, "Okay, in 2028, we're
going to start mandating that our warranty has to to be validated by a professional technician installing it."
That gives you a few years to ramp people up, to get them trained, to make sure that you have enough technicians
out there to do it, and then you do it. Yeah. And and and I I think part of the
push back that I've heard over the years is what what is that? Right. So, is it a if
it's CFI then you have the union the US
uh you I forget that acronym UPUPAT uh or you have yeah or you have another
organization or another organization saying no it's it should be ours it should be ours that's why we created the
verified trade index it's a perfect time for me just to mention that the hammer
rating is is been redesigned signed and is now the verified trade index that
goes live at the first of the year. And so every installer's profile that's in go career at the moment will be pulled
out of the marketplace and put on the verified trade index. As you can see that nice trial in that gentleman's hand
on that sticker and that that aggregates all your trains. I don't it doesn't
matter if you got trained by the manufacturer a little you got a little certification here an extra training
there it all accumulates and now instead of a zero to five score it goes rookie
intermediate experienced proficient expert master artisan and elite artisan
so you can fall as an installer anywhere on that spectrum and then the manufacturers have a perfect third-party
nonaffiliated or not not tied to actual training because we don't actually train anybody.
We are just aggregating all the trainings into one place and you can require that your products are installed
by a proficient or above uh installer on the VTI and that's a going to that's a
public spot that people can check and make sure that people have that um that verification and that is a solution that
manufacturers that we've talked to are starting to really open their ears and say hey maybe this is something we can
do. Well, they should, Paul. I mean, if you think about it, if you look at what the average manufacturer spends in
honoring claims every year, if they would invest the money on the front side into getting people trained, they could
offset not only the cost of a claim here, but for years to come. I mean, it's a common sense thing. It's it's one
of the things that frustrates me. You know, guys know I'm passionate about leadership. I I have this statement. I say it's common sense, not common
practice. Most of us know the right thing to do. We just put up excuses for why we won't
do it. We're stuck in this rut and we want to pretend to defend our rut. You know, this is where you're supposed to
be. No, there can be a better way. It's okay. And I love what you're doing there, Paul. Obviously, when we acquired
CFI, listen, I think Jim and Jane Walker were geniuses. I think they took a risk when no one else was willing to do it.
They started something. I don't know if their business acumen was all that. That doesn't matter to me. I appreciate the
fact that they put an effort in and we believe CFI does it right. I think there has to be a standard. I think there's
something has to be done to make sure that if someone is identified as a trainer. But but here's the other thing.
I used to sell for Shaw for years years. That warranty can be as big as they want
on the back. They can put every organization or they could do what you just simply said, Paul. You've created
an option that makes it simple for them. I just we got to get in a room and have that conversation and say, "Come on,
guys. Let's do it. Let's help you on the front side with claims and help us on the back side by getting people trained
so that we have the expertise out there that we need." Yeah. This reminds me of like when we
were my Jose and I were um you know going to classify our employees as
actual employees instead of contractors and then you we we started saying the saying that you we can't afford we we
keep on we kept on saying we can't afford to do it right and now you have to change your mindset and say we can't
afford not to do it if you look at the long term. Yeah. and and the the you know the more
that the industry has went to subcontractors over the last 30 years and primarily
heavy in subcontracting that has created the void of training
back when everybody were hourly employees and I have W2 employees but I also know how hard it is to keep them
because I probably five of our crews are past employees five of our
subcontracting crews or past employees. You can't just yank the entrepreneurial
spirit out of people. If they want to do it, they're going to do it. What we try to do is set them up for the most
success when they do make that transition from an hourly W2 benefited
employee over to subcontracting that when they do that that they've had
an exit meeting with us so that we can help them understand all the stuff to
expect and how to go about it as the best way that we see. Um, and I've been
on all the the sides. I've been an hourly employee. I've been a subcontractor. I now own and have for
the last 25 years a flooring company that employs both. I would love to have
nothing but hourly W2 employee installers. However, um the cyclical
nature of our business is why the subcontracting kind of came on so hard and once it did, it took hold and uh was
was tough to uh def I wouldn't say defeat, but tough to avoid. And you
know, Daniel and Jose do most of their work inhouse and they they are a model
for how you can do that. You can have a split model like we run. I know plenty
that use nothing but subcontractors, but we have to have a way to validate their
skill set. Exactly. And know that they're being trained. And that is the key to our industry
succeeding is aligning the installers intrinsic um motivation of making more money and
gaining more respect. That's how we are. I want to make money and I wanted to be known as the best. That's what I was.
That's how I was when I was an installer. Dang. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, to to add to this part of
the conversation, you know, years ago when uh when I was still green, which many many moons ago, um
way way back way back way back in the 1900 1900s. Yeah.
The wheel. um the um the literature that was on a lot of the commercial work uh I
didn't do too much residential but you know it did require it did say right in the specifications that a a
certified installer was required for specific materials and then it the literature changed at some point right
it it went from certified to qualified um and now it might say that but now it
just says follow manufacturer recommendations and and ASM standards and and you have all these contracts and
and everybody's throwing their portion in there too and you got to follow it, you know, and it's, you know, I don't
know who drove that bus, if it was a liability thing who who drove that bus uh from the manufacturers or if it was
um you know, architect designer saying, "Hey, we're we're fasttracking everything. We got to try to cut corners
somewhere. So, let's Brother, it's it's all the above." and I'll add one to it and that is that when
they put a particular entity you know certification down if that entity is not
strong in that area geographically of the United States then it becomes very hard for them to stand
behind it when they're like well you know NASC doesn't do training in the upper northwest or whatever or CFI
doesn't do a lot of training in in but or whatever the scenar scenario. So
that's why you you want to have and our solution this I very rarely uh use the
huddle to talk about uh the VTI and stuff but it is the way that you it
doesn't matter you could be union trained you can be CFI you can be any of
the unions or different things and then you have a your score is still based on
the the um the power of that training and your years of proven experience in
the industry. And you mix those two with kind of the timing because the algorithm
loves train, apply, train, apply, train, apply. What it doesn't love is somebody
who goes out and gets 10 years experience and then goes gets a bunch of certifications or something in a year,
you know, because it the way we learn is by teaching and then we apply that new
knowledge and teach and we apply that new knowledge and that's the best way for us to learn as humans.
So, so what if what if there's a way to tie um not even just in flooring, right?
construction period, uh, continue education into, um, economic strength.
What if there's a way to tie it like that? So that way legislators can actually listen to it and mandate some of that literature back on um, you know,
new construction because a lot of these builds and everything that go through um, city engineering or uh, uh, smaller
townships, municipalities, and all that that are paying for it, they should say
their investment. That's a great question for Scott because Scott, you guys go up to DC and lobby for the
industry. What what uh I think just to kind of distill what Jose just said is,
you know, that when they do DIY, when when there's so much DIY, the the
government is losing out on taxes and things of that nature, when a professional comes in and does that
work, you know, the the economic impact of that is greater than a DIYer doing
it. Uh is there any um you know highlevel stuff that's that's pushing
the agenda at all for the you know we have licensing for high um high risk um
trades like plumbers and electricians. We don't have licensing and flooring necessarily or if we do it's very sparse
and very distinct locations. But is there anything on a broader scope that's uh
being discussed in that manner? I think all of it's being talked about, Paul. Be careful. Just be careful that
whenever you ask the government to get involved, they may actually do it. Be careful. Um,
right. There are areas where we want them involved. And that's why when the WFCA goes up there, we're very cautious about
what we talk about, right? So, we want we want to tell them where we need them involved and we we also want to tell
them where we need them to get out of our business. Now, if you ask them to get involved at the front level, then
you've got to be careful because every time an administration changes, you have an administration that has the
possibility of saying there's no such thing as a subcontract employee. Everyone's an employee.
And so, I think the solution, guys, and I'm talking to the guys that can make it happen. I think we need to solve our own
problem. I think we can get, listen, the government's got all kind of funding that's out there. we can go and and
generally what we're doing is we're going up. We took SCEF up with us a few weeks ago and took K Whitner around. She
did a phenomenal job talking about the trade schools and how we're getting these programs set up. But what they
want to do is give you the funding and they want you to solve your own problem. One thing we're not going to solve is you're not going to suddenly make
licensing the norm. Yeah, I I agree with that.
We can't. I wish we could. Honestly, these things just kind of happened over time and we accepted them. The fact that
we're 80 85% subcontract labor, you know, it's a nightmare in some scenarios, but it also allows people to
be entrepreneurs, as you said, Paul, to be in charge of their own destiny. And so, I I I think what we got to do is
look at what we got. And then I would tell you one one word that I think is going to be the most powerful word
whether you're an installer, a retailer, a manufacturer in 2026 and beyond. And that word is simplify.
If we can find a way to simplify, if we can make it simpler for the government to help us, guess what? We're the ones
they're going to want to help. If we can make it for a manufacturer to require a
qualified technician to install the product, guess what? The manufacturer will do it. We got to quit thinking about doing it perfectly and think about
the way that we can simplify the process to get a little bit. So, I'm up in DC. The first time I went up, this was 13
years ago and I met a congressman, Congressman Wulac was his name. He is um
congressman in Fateville, Arkansas, and I have family in Fateville. And so we hit it off and talking and I said, "Hey,
you like it up here?" He said, "Well, it's different. It's changed over the years." And I said, "How so?" And he said, "Well, it used to be if you came
up here and you got 51% of what you wanted, you felt like you won." But he said, "Now we got people that don't
think they'll get 100%, they won't even show up to vote." Yeah. And that's that's not that's not
compromise and it's not negotiation. And that's why we are where we are in our government. We're the same way in the
industry. We like to function within silos until we say we don't want to. And then everybody to play the game our way.
I think we have a lot of the solutions already if we can get the right people in the room and say, "Guys, let's not
leave till we fix it." Yeah. You know, having a lock in like that with some industry leaders would be
super beneficial, I think, for the industry. Like, hey, till we get one agenda item, this one agenda item
solved, we're not leaving. Bring in the pizza and the and the sprite because we're not leaving till we get it solved
and we all agree on a go forward solution. I wanted to a two or three day summit with the key
players in that room. And yeah, I think that's the way to that's that's one way to handle it.
Yeah. And I think uh to to build on a little bit of what you said
the the well one of the biggest like mantras
in building software now I'm a flooring guy. They decided to go out and build a
technology company. Uh in doing that I learned a lot of I've learned a lot of
things since 2018. And one of the things in when you're building a piece of software is and and this is like just
known in the software industry and we could benefit ourselves from adopting it. You're always aiming at the MVP.
Like what is the best you can come up with right now and then you implement and you adjust and implement just like I
talked about how we learn as humans is how we need to be implementing. Do learn
do learn do and learn. you'll end up at a better place and your industry, our
industry that we all love, will start to see that action takes for, you know, is
is going forward. And there's more faith when you do it that way as opposed to,
you know, planning for 10 or 15 years and then coming out with this solution you think is great. The problem is the
marketplace has to tell you what's great. And we've learned a lot in that regard over the last uh several years is
that you know I mean these guys can tell you go Carrera has you know went from like a
mess to a little better to a little better and our new iteration coming up is and and move into trade tap is is a
uh le a big leap forward and you get to take those big leaps and as an industry
we can take some big leaps because you when you accumulate data and knowledge
about how uh best to solve a problem, then you start to move you're you're
you're closer to the final solution than you were if you just try to get it perfect from the giddy up. I hope that
made sense. But that's what I've learned through building software. Yeah. Well, first thing I'd say, Paul,
is if you want to limit your competition, be a flooring guy that decides to go into software. There's not
a whole lot of those. There's not a whole lot of those out there. So, that's good. You're right. The closer we get to
perfection, the more we win, whether we get there or not. We just got to be moving in the right direction. Listen,
the world around us is changing. Either we create the change or we're responding to somebody else's change. AI is going
to be a big part of what happens. So, going forward, we got to decide how do we how do we embrace it? How do we use it? How do we make it a tool rather than
something that we're responding to? But if we sit back like the flooring industry has done in the past and choose
to simply react to what we have to do because the world around us has changed,
we're always going to be behind. I'm ready for the flooring industry to step up and lead, right? I'm ready for us to say this is the way
it ought to be done. I'm ready for other industries to knock on our door and say, "My gosh, how did you guys do that? Can
you work with us?" I'm ready for coalitions that are outside the flooring industry with other associations where
we lift our voices together and we go to DC and say fix the damn installation issue,
fix the immigration issue. That's you playing the game and do something. And and I think I I say that
guys, I think it's very doable. I'm a very optimistic person. I get frustrated
sometimes because I see people that live in the realm of excuses and I'm just not wired that way. Yep.
I'm a fixer and a doer just like y'all are. And by the way, kudos for what you've already done. Thank you.
Utmost in respect for you. But here's the here's the sad thing. Even if it's the right thing, that doesn't make it
accepted by everybody, you still got to fight for it. You still got to believe it. I mean, Paul, what you put up with
over the years with Koker Eric and trying to get buy in and you kept going and that's the reason that you're
getting the progress you're getting now. We're going to look one day. I believe we're going to be in heaven. We're going to look at these things and we're going
to say, "Oh my gosh, we were that close." Yeah. I know. I I think that all the time.
Like, so close. Oh, it's so so close. We were right there. It's all right. Pick up and go again. Go
again. Believe in it. Be committed. Yeah. a lot of this uh anytime you're trying to make big change, no matter
what it is, um like perseverance,
it's like a saying in the software world as you get into, you know, these
investment firms and pitching people and doing all this stuff. like they're they're literally uh they they're they
want to see how how much pain and struggle can you endure because they know that pain and struggle is is
the way forward. It's not to be avoided. It's to embrace and like take the knocks
and go forward and keep clawing up until you get to the point where you you kind
of break through a little bit. you have a little bit of daylight and people start kind of uh taking notice of what
your industry is doing and to speak to brother. If we were in church right now, I'd be waving my hand.
That's that's good stuff right there. I'm telling you that we're too busy
trying to defend the thing that we hate. Yeah. Most people are very dissatisfied with where they are. The only thing they hate
worse than where they are is changing it. And we've got to we got to make change simple. I'm going to do a quick
commercial. I'm not even going to show it because I love our connection right now. My book came out about eight weeks
ago. It's called Leadership by the letter and it talks about the fact Paul really what you just hit on. They looked
at people that have been overachievers, the ones who have changed the world. They found out there's one common trait
among them. They don't feel successful. They all had to overcome something. They all had a major obstacle in their life.
Now, here's the difference. Some people get to an obstacle and they see a dead end. They see a roadblock, but great
leaders see a speed bump. They don't see that as a stop. They see
that as a slowdown. Okay, that didn't work. Let's figure another way to do it. But we're not going to quit because it's
the right thing to do. So, I I finally
wrote this book. I hate writing, by the way, but I love having written. Uh it's a lot better to be on the back side of
it. But this book came out on Amazon about eight weeks ago. It's called leadership by the letter and it's a very
simple approach to being the type of leader you want to be. It's 52 words.
Two words with each letter of the alphabet. So 26* 2 is 52 gives you 52 weeks just to focus on being the best
leader you can be. By the way, in life much more than on the job. I I hope you're great on the job. That's
fantastic. If you're a better parent, a better sibling, a better child, that means a lot more to me than whether
you're good on the job. Well, there are they're often a mirror of the other. You know, a lot of the really really
highquality guys that I've had the pleasure to deal with over the years are wonderful parents and, you know, they're
involved in the community and they they often mirror one another. And so, um, everybody go pick up Scott's book,
Leadership by the Letter on Amazon. Um, I I enjoy Scott, uh,
weekly, uh, uh, tips and leadership. Yep. and leadership uh uh videos. So, if
you don't get those, also subscribe to the WFCA's uh um email list so that you
can get those because they they come in very valuable. And it's funny how you'll just open up a a word from a another
leader in the industry. They hit you right where you needed to be hit that day. So, uh
are you gonna have an audio? I I don't yet, but they've they've asked
me to. Quite frankly, I just had that time. We've had a lot of transition going on at WCA recently. So, that's
been the focus. But, I I will say this, I wrote it the way I'd read it. I think that's the thing I did write. I don't
like to read long chapters. If you look around me, if y'all could see around me right now, I have probably a thousand
books in my office. I probably read 25% of most of them.
Yeah. Because when they get into deep theory, I'm thinking, "No, leadership's not that difficult. I don't need your policy or
process to do it. I just need to know what's the right thing to do. And I want stories and examples of people that have
done it. I want to know about lives that have been changed. And so every chapter is a story or an illustration. And a lot
of them gut-wrenching that'll kind of tug at you and you'll go back and you'll go, "Man, I could do that.
Why? Why am I not doing that? Why why am I not paying it forward?" And I don't care if it's, and Paul, you're right,
but what I find is people that focus on being better on the job don't necessarily take it home, but people
that focus on being better at home always take it to the job. And so I I know Rin was on here. I don't know if he
still is or not, but I think about Rollin, what a great leader in the flooring industry from an installation
standpoint. What a great dad. Gosh, I can't be around without him talking about his kids.
He's a great person, bro. quality typically when you find someone who stands out, they got it on both sides.
And I would just tell you, you'd enjoy the read. I'm not trying to make money off this. I don't. I I want something I
can leave behind that when I'm gone, people will know what I believed in. That's that's why I took the time.
Well, we're glad you did. And again, guys, it's called Leadership by the Letter, and you can get it on Amazon.
So, check that out. And uh you know a lot of what when we're talking about
organizations like the WFCA, a lot of what the community of installers what
what they feel is whether or not they're being heard. And so me and the guys
started the huddle for that reason. We wanted an outlet where we could take in
in uh questions and, you know, comments from when we're at shows and stuff. I
mean, I can't tell you how many times someone's come up and said, "Hey, you should do a podcast on this or do it on
that topic." Uh, but we wanted to give installers a little bit of a voice in
the industry so everybody could know um what each other is thinking. One of the
things that uh I would love for you to kind of touch on is
understanding the installation community is understanding guys who and gals who
believe that their you know the good ones believe that their job's valuable but can sometimes be undervalued by
others. Now part of that it's a societal issue. I've told the story on the huddle I don't know how many times, but the
story of me doing a a really complicated VCT project out on a middle school and
as I was walking to the bathroom, the teacher telling their students, you know, uh you better shape up or you're going to end up like those guys out
there. And you know, here here I am like putting these circles and waves and all
this stuff down this this middle school hallway in VCT and, you know, lights at
the end. So, you had to think about the floor prep and all the geometry that went into to to putting those shapes and
waves and all the stuff in that that product, let alone the hand skill it takes to actually cut that all in and
make it look good. And I thought, you know, I probably make more this year than you'll make in the next five years,
lady. Exactly. I was I was going to say, you're a good man if you didn't say that out loud because that's what I
I did not. But but you know it that it could be partially societal but a lot of
the community feels under um I won't say underrepresented but underappreciated
because we all say these taglines at like the conventions and there's not enough installers to hear it. So I'd
love it to come out here so they can hear it again. But we say at convention, all this flooring has zero value until
it's properly installed on your project in your home or what have you.
That seems to be your re the you know part of the WFCA DNA. Can you like
explore that a little bit? Is that true? Am I making a good assumption or h how do you guys feel about that?
It's a great assumption, Paul. I So my background is kind of unique. I I studied to be a minister for a couple of
years before uh coming into the flooring industry. I grown up in the industry. I always knew I could go back to that. I
was never called in the ministry. I just did it. But I wanted to find a place that I could give back, a place that I
could make an impact. I'm a vocal performance major, by the way. My major is in vocal performance. So I singing is
what I did. I look at everything for its art value. And when I look at
installation, I see it like a blank canvas that's waiting to be painted on.
I'm telling you, man, you can make such a difference in a room by the quality of
the installation and the product that's selected for that install. And it it almost gives me chills thinking about
it. I love and when and when when an installer and a a professional technician when they understand the
power they have to bring a room to life, they don't have to go to work. They get to go to work.
They're making a difference. And I believe we've done a terrible job in this industry of underelling the value
of the artist who paints on the canvas. I believe that's what it's one of the things that we try to do. Now, we're in
an awkward place. I want to kind of address the elephant in the room. I think a lot of people know that we sold the show out in Las Vegas and they say,
"Well, you got money. Why don't you put more money in? We could solve the problem." You know what? I I grew up in a 10- foot
wide trailer. I'm the third cousin of Hubert Humphrey who was the vice president of the United States. I study
politics like I study people. I can throw money in a lot of things. I just don't see it fixing it.
Yeah. Money itself is not the solution. What we want and what we've tried to do
is to be a sounding board for people to come together that want to make it right,
that want to take this and elevate the trade and help people understand the value of it. I think most people that
install product are underpaid. I believe that. I think they're undervalued. Um,
and I think you're going to begin to see more of that now as we have this tightening of how many installers we
have out there to produce. Right? So now you've got fewer people doing it. You got fewer showing up. And I think you're
going to see people going, "Okay, we got to have it in." Now the advantage right now is construction's having the same
problem that flooring is. And so the construction's not ready for the flooring to be installed. So because people are not showing up in this
construction world at all, but that doesn't devalue the trade. And
by the way, if you are a professional installer and you don't value the trade,
you're part of the problem. Mhm. If you simply work every day and get as much in as you can, but you're not
worried about the quality of it, you're not part of the solution. You're part of the problem. If we want to elevate how people treat
you and how they pay you, then we've got to have the people that are doing it believing that they're the best of the
best. Yeah. That that money thing that you said too, like I probably rambled on that Paul, but
yes. Am I passionate about that? Yes. When we acquired CFI, that wasn't a random decision where we said, "Hey,
let's acquire somebody." We researched. I met with Jim and Jane multiple times. I met with Robert Varden. We believed in
the vision of CFI. It was never a decision we made to make money. In fact, when we voted on it, I told them, "If
you're voting for us to acquire them to make money, don't vote. All I want is for them to be able to
break even." Because I think if people don't put something in, they don't have value to it. But I'm going to tell you,
there's a lot to be said for valuing what you already have. And I think that's where a lot of
installers are missing it. We can look at the retailer and say they don't value us. That's okay. Do you value you?
Well, and that's a fair that's a fair point. I mean, um,
you know, the old saying, it's hard to love someone else if you don't love yourself kind of thing. So,
you know, it's a fair point that if you're not valuing yourself, um, you know, it's it's hard for others
to value what you do as well. Um, as well as, and I I know that, uh, I
believe that Preferred's had the same thing happen, but, we we had an installation crew come into our office
and offer to, and this is the for any installers here, this is what I you should not do.
Uh but they come in and they were like, "Hey, we install LVP and uh would like
to get some work." And we're like, "Well, you know, obviously our first thing is go get a profile and let us see
your your your uh you years of experience. Let us see what your rating is." Uh and they said, "Well, we we'll
install it for 55 cents a foot." And I was like, "Well, then I don't even need
your rating, dude. You can't work here. I I'm not paying somebody 55 cents a foot to put in LVP. That's ridiculous.
That's like you're you're driving the whole industry down doing that stuff. And and it's not beneficial to anyone to
do that. And unfortunately, there's untrained crews who are unknown to be untrained. So,
they're not only untrained, it's unknown that they're untrained. uh that are going out and willing to do the work for
that type of a dollar figure is just it blows my mind. I don't even know how you can break how you can even survive at
that type of a dollar uh you know that type of a payout. But the point being is
just back to your original statement that you know you really do have to um value your worth in this industry and go
get that training in invest in yourself and others will invest in you too by the
way. Yeah, that's right. And and you've got to see yourself as worthy of the value, right?
You've got to see Here's here's part of the problem we're running into with immigration. People that want to be trained are afraid to be trained. Right?
So we got 40% is what I'm hearing over the last five years. 40% of the people who come into installation have probably come across the southern border. It's
somewhere around there give or take 5%. Those people would be a phenomenal
resource for our industries if we would simply train them. So, just so you guys
know what we have proposed in DC, and by the way, when we propose this, behind closed doors, both sides of the aisle
agree with us. But when it comes election time, they will not come public because they're
afraid their constituents will not vote for them if they do. But here's what we proposed. There should be a penalty for
you coming in illegally. You come in, pay the penalty, work a certain number
of years, you pay your medical bills, you pay your taxes, you pay social security, and then you get in the back
of the line for legal citizenship. But that citizenship is not just us. We
propose dual citizenship. That way, if we train you in a skill set that you can use back home, we help that country as
well. And we stem the tide of people simply seeing us as the solution. We our
birth rate in the United States is not enough to sustain us. We need these
people and most of them are great people. And listen, I'm all for sending the bad ones back. I'm also off for
finding a way to keep the good ones here. Yeah. And there's ways to do that. I mean, at the end of the day, my my
wife's Hispanic and her her grandfather came over and did it legally. Um, and
when when those people follow the right path to whether it's cit citizenship or
at least legal residency of some sort, there's a there's a certain amount of
pride and defensibility they have about this the chaos of the of previous years
when it was just coming across without any anything. Yeah. Sometimes they're the most
adamant, Paul. Sometimes they're the ones who hate that process. talked to my wife's uncles and they are
not they're not they're not fans. What they are fans of is making this easier
though. There has to be a little easier method and you and and you really in in
my opinion um it's not just it's a co-e.
They want to come here. They need America and America needs them. That's like a love affair. uh that that should
have an easy way for it to happen. You know what I mean? It's like Yeah. And the other value though, Paul,
of dual citizenship is we're paying a lot of these countries to exist anyway.
Why not put that money instead into training their people at being good at what they do? Well, why why would it be that you could
be so good that people paid for you to come into their country to do work? Yeah. You know, I think I think I think we can
get there. And again, here's what I think we're talking about. We created again the problem we hate. We
made immigration so difficult that people felt the only way they could do it is to come across illegal.
Yeah. If you simplify immigration, you solve the problem.
Let's find the right way for the right people to come in and simplify it and make it easy. Don't make them have to
jump through hoops, fill out thousands of forms. Make it where we get the people here that we need.
Yeah. and that we benefit them as much as they benefit us. I agree with all that.
Daniel and Jose, I wanted to go back to a a topic when when we were talking
about um you know, being untrained
installers, you guys and I both kind of share that little path where we weren't
maybe the best trained at some point. What was the ticker for you guys that
like hey this is something this is where I can double down and separate myself
and you guys have clearly done that. So what what what was the ticker? What
what got you there? That's a great great question.
I I grew up and and I was I I was just I surrounded myself with a lot of people that said there's no way you can do
that. There's no way right where you came from. There's just no way. you know, everything was was stacked up
against me. So, don't tell me there's no way. Just don't. Right. That that that is fuels me
more than someone telling me that I'm on a good path. You tell me that I'm doing something
wrong. You tell me there's no way for me to get to that finish line, I'll find it. And that that's really all it was.
But the Yeah. the you know I can't say that something ticked though because you you
started like I did where we we we had some hand skills we had some natural skills got going and then we were like
man I got to go learn something you know I want to know how to actually do this stuff right I'll tell you what it was it was uh I
think it was the moment when uh the gentleman that that I was working with moved out of state and I got put in
a corner and and because I was the leader right I was his leader and they said if you don't get your license and
you don't get your insurance, we're not going to give um him work anymore, which means you're not going to get work
anymore. And you know, and I had my family and my friends working. I brought them all along. And I was responsible
for them. And then I made that shift. Once I made that shift, I I realized I'm not just doing it for me for a
paycheck anymore. I'm doing it for them. And I I I just had to get better. And I was learning. And I I just had to keep
learning. I just never stopped learning. That was the turning point for me to say, "Yeah, I'm I'm kneede into this
thing right now. Let me uh let me make sure that I don't fail." And it wasn't for me. It was for everybody else that I
had brought into the the industry at the time. Jose, I want to hear Daniel's answer to
that. But let me just say that typically, if you do it to benefit yourself, it doesn't sustain.
Yeah. Never. It doesn't last. when you begin to make a difference because it's the right thing for others and especially when
you're my age. I'm 62 now. I think I'm 35, but I'm 62 and I'm thinking about my
legacy and I want to make sure that I leave this industry that's added so much to my life a better place than it was
when I came in. So, that's a that's a pivotal point. Thank you, Jose, for mentioning that because you at one point
realize I'm not just in this for me anymore. There's a lot of people relying on me. I brought people into this
telling you this is a this is a good livelihood. Now I got to put my money where my mouth is.
Daniel, what about it, buddy? How's that birthday boy? See this? Man, I just I didn't even realize how
good I was until other people started telling me. I think I was just out doing my job and always trying to do the best
thing that I the the best installation that I could, right? And then um what really started clicking for me is
actually just picking up trade magazines and then just reading like, "Oh, I'm supposed to be doing this." And then
just changing actually changing the way that things were that we were doing. And
um from there, you just start, you know, getting
relationships with um like local distributors. And then the you they bring in the reps and then you start
talking to the reps and they're like, "Can I demo this for you?" And you're like, "Oh, I was kind of doing this a little bit wrong." And then again, the
kind of like Paul was saying, you you figure you're doing something wrong, you change it. Or if something's not working, you
change it. And that's just what we just kept on doing. We just kept on changing and progressing from there. And it's not
it's not something that I thought of at the time that's that was like really
life-changing or anything. It's just something that we started doing and then it just put us into that spotlight where
people were like, "Wow, you guys do great work." And we never have issues. And now looking back on it, it's that's
that's the reason why is because it's like, "All right, if I'm not doing something right, I'm going to change it." Instead of I still talk to people
today that's that it's like, "Hey guys, you guys are doing this wrong. This is the way you're supposed to be doing it." And then the excuse that everyone always
has. I've always I've been doing this for 30 years this way. I I that is the worst response I I
I have to break. General contractors as well as uh installers.
I I I've had GCS come in and go, "Well, we tore up VCT. Why can't you just put
it back down?" I'm like, "Well, that was done 35 years ago with cut back adhesive, and you didn't have to worry
about moisture back then, buddy. You do now." that VCT is about 90% lime crushed
limestone. Okay? So, it's it's not got much of the V in it anymore. And then
you add water soluble adhesives to the mix and you got a whole different problem today. So, this I did it I've
done it this way for 30 years or I've always done it this way. That stuff that that's the that that's kind of what I
wanted to point out with you guys just to give you some some some kudos here.
One of the things that not only have you displayed that within how you handled
your installation career, but you guys are involved in local community. You're involved in your local uh um chapter of
of the uh commerce. Sorry, it's uh Chamber of Commerce. Chamber of Commerce. Yeah, your local
chamber. Um you guys do a lot to advance other people. uh we talk about it pretty
often, you know, that you guys went to a chamber meeting for this that and the other and you're always trying to
improve this situation. So that's kudos to you guys, but it can be it can be
adopted by others. So if you're an installer on here, like copy some people
like do the take those little baby steps forward. That's what you just seen in in
the the examples that Jose and Daniel gave is just baby steps forward on
stuff. And now and you arrive eventually you're gonna arrive. It's kind of any small time make
big time. Any small time make big time. Well guys I would just say kudos to your
parents or whoever instill that work ethic in you. Uh that willingness to do the right thing just because it's the
right thing. One of the premises I believe in life is if you do the right thing expecting nothing in return, you
will always get something in return. Yep. Yeah. You just got to do you just
got to do the right thing. By the way, I'm a little mad at myself because I had my screen messed up. This dialogue
that's going on here is so much fun and I've missed I didn't know what good eaters and cooks y'all are. Jorge, man,
he's he's laying it on you guys. Yeah, he's the head he's the head chef in the in the cooker.
I want to go back. Hey, I want to make sure I ask one question of you guys if you don't mind before we finish.
I we I don't I I'm listen I'm yours so don't I'm not worried about time that's up to you. We are about to launch a new
benefit that really a lot of the motivation for it is the professional installation world. My research shows
that maybe as many as 70% of professional installers do not have insurance. They just don't carry it. And
I don't know if you're aware but because of the big beautiful bill that passed as of January 1st you don't have to have
insurance anymore. not comprehensive health insurance. You only are required to have catastrophic insurance, which
means hospital and surgery. And so what we have done is partnered with a guy that I met through my CEO group in
Atlanta and he's created a program called Philit Local just like it sounds f i l l i t l o c. You can look it up
philitlocal.com. It is a teaalth program that also has
700 plus free pharmaceuticals and I've got the alphabetized list and I'm telling you most of the stuff that
you would think about it's on there and then it gives you a 90% discount on the others. It also comes with a scope so if
you if if your kids having ear problems you actually put the scope in the ear and they get to see the ear on the
teleahalth the teleahalth is free. It's $24 a month. Here's the catch. You have
to be part of an organization to get it. Individuals cannot get it. So, I've just signed the entire staff of the WFCA up
for it. The people that we manage at FCIF, Wi-Fi, and FCEF, they've done the same. But, I'm working with them right
now to see if there's a way for independent contractors to utilize that
if they are members of CFI. So for instance, if CFI membership is 50
bucks, then at $24 a month times 12 is 2.88, then you add the 288 and the 50
and we have a different level of membership that allows you the medical benefit. My question is this. I don't
want to spend a lot of time pushing a benefit that doesn't have value.
So I'm I'm I'm in a little bit of pain today. Hey, I'm actually on a little bit of medication because I'm about to have
to have neck surgery for the fourth time. And so when I went down and saw the doctor, they called me in a medication
and I get a message from the pharmacy. It says, "Your medication is ready. The cost is $567."
Yeah. And I thought, "Yeah, I'm not that bad off. I don't think I don't think I'm hurting quite enough for $567."
But I did some research and I found out that I was able to get that same medicine for 17 bucks,
which is what I paid for it. If we had had this program, it would have been 15.
I think I want to take a burden off of those who don't have insurance to make
sure they've got enough to be covered. So, what this program does is for each individual, it's $24. For their first
child, it's 36. for each additional child is 15 if they choose to do it. We don't make money on it, but it takes a
burden that you're worried about taking care of your family. This allows you to buy catastrophic insurance, which is
about a fifth the cost of regular insurance and then have teleaalth and
have pharmaceutical and have something that you know if your kid has strep, you
can take care of them without paying $300 to go for a doctor's appointment. Yeah, that's a Is that a value? Yeah, it is a value
especially for someone here where where you know my kids like to get hurt and get sick all the time and um you know if
if if I didn't have to go take my deep dive into the medical industry and and
all that years ago I wouldn't know that shopping around and and from one store
that's you know three miles apart you know you are talking a $300 difference in in the cost even with health coverage.
Oh it's crazy. It's it's crazy. It's really, it's really frustrating.
It almost makes me mad, Jose, because if they could have taken advantage of me, they would have, they would have gotten
the 567 if they could. And I think there's a lot of people out there that don't know how to fight that fight. They don't know that they have
another alternative. And so what my friend Scott Mcnite has created is this program that uses localarmacies.
So, just like Good RX uses Walgreens and CVS, this uses localarmacies. Just like
we deal with independent foreign retailers that are local and and and installation groups that are local, I
loved it. I just saw the connection and I said, you know, well, my two cents on it is anytime uh
somebody's able to get a so pharmaceuticals in particular are one
of the biggest cost of insurance. And the dirty secret is
that they take advantage of the insurance companies that you if you had full insurance, you would have paid the
fi your insurance would have paid the five something. That's right. And that's what keeps health care costs
elevated anyway is these things that um
that are inflated. Um our insurance company fought a bill one time. Um we're
part of a co-op. Uh it's a Christian co-op called Liberty Health. Yeah. And I've been on that insurance for 20 years
probably or 15 years. U that's awesome. And they they fight these bills because a a 10 Coca-Cola
should not cost 52 bucks, you know, and and so they they try to do the good deed
of trying to pull down the health care costs and get them more in line. I mean,
we all know that a 10 Coke isn't going to cost you, you know, a dollar like it does at the convenience store. So, four
or five bucks, you kind of But that's not an exaggeration. 52 bucks for a 10
can of of Diet Coke. That is nuts. And it causes our
insurance to go high. So, anytime you can separate pharmacy from health, I
think it's a benefit. I think that separation that has started to happen
over the last 5 years is a net positive for the industry. um and could possibly
even help with health insurance in general when you pay your own pharmaceuticals and you do it through
something like this. Um I think that's a hu I think it's a bigger benefit than
what this you know uh the the cost of savings is because that's the benefit to
you personally but the benefit to the overall um uh setup of the health
insurance industry. I think it starts to combat some of the major problems we have there. So I think it's great
so we can change the system. Yeah. Changing the system. Yeah. Well thanks if anybody is
interested in that. If you go to wfca.org or I've just instructed the people that run our site to put some
information out there about it. And one of the things I'm going to have them list are the 700 plus prescriptions that
are 100% free. Uh all you and by the way, it's mail. So you just you you order the medication
through prescription and then they just send it to you by mail. All you have is the mailing cost. And so I'm excited
about it. I think it can make a difference. Um, we're always looking for a way for people to need the WFCA, not
for us simply to exist. And I think when you're helping them where they live,
then they need and to me that's why the medical that's why the medical makes. So to round that out, do you think CFI
using CFI here as the example, do you think as that that as a group that that is a
possibility or is this still being explored? Yeah. So my buddy's name is Scott
Mcnite. He's a genius. One of those guys that has a mightest touch. And I'm blessed to be a part of a group called Vistage in Atlanta. And it's all CEOs.
And they come together with these, you know, enormous ideas. And Scott's
one of those that everything he touches works. And he said, "You know what? I want to help the local business. I want
to help the people that support, you know, little league and boys and girl scouts." And and so he he came together.
So, I called him uh yesterday and I just said, "Hey, can we do this through CFI if we just add the cost that it would
take for a year to our membership? Can we do that?" And he said, "90% sure we can." That if you become a member and we
would have to create a new membership level. I I just kind of threw this out in front of um Rodon Bush and and John
McCale today, but the way it would work is you would you would choose to be a
part of that level of membership of CFI. You can still have the regular CFI membership at its regular rate, but if
you chose the medical, then you would pay the fee that covers the cost of that per month. Well, I think that you'll probably
uh marketed correctly, you know, the installation community
knowing it's out there and understanding uh the the key benefits. Uh obviously
any proof uh that that they have there at the um affiliate local would I can't
imagine people not taking advantage of it because no matter what you you are still having um pharmaceut even if you
have insurance you have you have co-pays and different stuff and so a single co-pay
can cover the cost of that and well that's when we a bunch of people that have insurance say, "Hey, we cover
insurance for our people, but we're still going to put them through this that's what I'm going to get, you know, just the generic
drugs and the brand name ones at 90% off. Why wouldn't you for $25 a month?"
Yeah. Yeah. So, you guys are that voice. And so what I'd love aside conversation,
let's get on a on a a meeting, a call, a Zoom call, and let's talk about
how can we help people where they live. Yeah. And this is one of the things that drives me is how do we make the lives of
installers and retailers better and uh I'm really passionate
about that. Rollins says he's not old, but when you are old, you get government money for
it. But I think he's 15. Yeah. But you know what? Even Yeah. even with Medicare and Medicaid, you still
have out-of- pocket expense that that this would cover. Um, so anyway, well, I hope I'm glad that that you guys
are thinking of stuff like that and that the u the benefit to the installer can
be a healthier, you know, like not just a healthier scenario from like
having full health insurance, but just better options for your drugs is is super um beneficial for anyone. most
people are taking something. Um, and well, and you look at you guys, you
guys, you're all in good shape. You take care of yourself. You're probably paying a lot of insurance costs that you're
never utilizing because you dare to take care of yourself, right? So, shouldn't there be an option for people that don't
plan on having to go to the doctor 10 times during the year and all they need is an occasional prescription because they've got a sore
throat or something? Say it. You can say rash. You can say rash. That's fine.
I wasn't gonna say that out loud, Jose. Yeah. No, I I agree. I think it's a great um I think it'll go over really
well. We got to get the the word out and I think it's really awesome. The CFI
thinking that way. Um because I I agree with Rod that it it could be a great
opportunity for the membership for sure. You want to just uh note what Jorge said
and how lucky he is. A lot of installers uh have that same thing like they
they're w some wives work just for the insurance. Uh I've got a buddy that his
wife does nothing but I mean they don't make nothing from her work necessarily.
You off every bit of her wages are offset with daycare costs.
Yeah. But she works only because they get the insurance. with the insurance.
That is so common, Paul. Here here in North Georgia, it's teachers who will drive a school bus. They'll get up two
hours earlier in the morning and they drive the bus before they teach because they get that additional income or they
get that insurance that they wouldn't have otherwise. I mean, anyway, I I think when we're looking at solutions
and simplifying lives, I just want to make sure we're always looking at how to make the person's life better, not just
the job better. Agreed. Man, we're coming to the Well, we're past our
time. It was, as usual, when you have great conversations, they just kind of uh keep going. I I want to say I have
thoroughly enjoyed the this uh podcast and the conversation with you, Scott, as
well as Daniel and Jose. You guys always bring it. And happy birthday again, Daniel.
Thank you. What year what year young are you? 100
hundred years now. All right. You're just getting started. So, uh, well, right on the cusp of the
good old 40. I forgot. I'm older now, too. I'm trying to do that. I'm trying to do
that. I forgot. I'm It forgot I had a birthday. Just happened that way. His birthday was two weeks ago.
Hey guys, let me say because Paul, I can tell you're wrapping up. I just want people to know I'm big fans of you guys.
I'll do anything I can to support you, but what I want to thank you for. I love your example, but thank you for what
you're doing to make the industry a better place to exist. Uh it's it's making a difference. And I know a lot of
times if you're like me, you don't hear that, but I want you to know that we notice it. And I really do appreciate
the voice that you are for our industry. We definitely appreciate that. And kind of like what you said earlier, right?
You do things just because things need to be done, not because you're looking to get a big payout or anything. And I
think that's just where this was born from and why we still do it. Yep. And we
like like it was said earlier, we thoroughly enjoy it. So, we appreciate the uh kind words there, Scott. And
again, thank you for uh all you guys do for the industry at WFCA and you know uh
through the CFI and and the training. I think we have some good stuff going in
the industry. We got to push the pedal to the metal. I I will say you mentioned uh industries looking at solutions. I've
got a a meeting tomorrow with a major roofing organization
uh to discuss what we're doing over here in flooring. If there's anybody worse off than
flooring, I think it might be the roofing. By the way, from a from a optic standpoint as well
as uh their their people being trained, they have a similar scenario as us. And so, yeah,
you know, let's keep leading. Let's keep taking risks. Let's keep pushing the industry forward with positive momentum.
That's what I've gotten out of this podcast is let's take the steps forward. No different than what you just said on
the teleaalth. Uh you know the phil fitlo.com by the way just to do another
plug for everybody listening and who will listen to this uh later on YouTube.
um you know that that's not full health insurance for 200 bucks a month or
something, but it is a positive step forward and we got to keep taking these positive steps forward and so I applaud
everybody who's uh working on that with you guys at the WFCA. I want to thank our audience for all the uh comments.
Thank you for for being here and participating. like and subscribe if you're catching this on YouTube on our
uh later uh not live. Hey, look at that. How did that happen?
It's your birthday. There's the birthday. That's the first time that's happened.
So, thank you everybody. Please remember our content is all driven by you. We
always try to bring you valuable information and valuable um guests like Scott, give you some insight into the
industry. I want to maybe parrot what Scott said earlier, the the industry
leaders who really are leaders. They do care about you guys and they care about us and we're trying to make some
positive change in the industry. And I think that we're getting a lot of support. When I say we, I say I mean by
the installation community. join in, get involved, and you'll see that the
organizations that are kind of uh helping guide our industry. They're not
against us. They we bring ideas like Scott said earlier, we got to fix our
own problems. Some of those problems are what Daniel and Jose do up in Grand Rapids. Getting involved with local
chamber, trying to make local change, and then making industry change when you can by getting involved with the
convention at CFI's convention, getting involved with, you know, even going to TIC and getting involved in the
installation competitions and all this stuff. Just get involved. uh reach out
to any one of us if you have any uh you know uh questions or comments on this
episode and don't forget to like and subscribe. One last shout out to Diversify and the NFCT for your
leadership industry. What I say,
you can tell I'm a commercial flooring contractor, right? Oh man, Divergent Adhesives. Uh thank you, Sunny. forget
to check out his book. And yeah, another another plug, leadership by the letter. Scott, thank
you for joining us today. It's been a real pleasure talking with you and getting your insights in, guys. Anytime. Anytime. And by the way,
we are blessed. So, uh, happy Thanksgiving, guys. It's good to have you guys as friends,
but also to be in the same same occupation. Happy Thanksgiving. Paul keeps on saying, you know, we do
locally, but it's everywhere. where people do business with people they like and they don't know if they'd like you if you're not getting out there, right?
So, start coming around. Amen. Yeah. All right. Well said. Thanks everybody and we will catch you
guys next week. All right. Thanks a lot. Thank you everyone.
