The Huddle - Episode 172 - The Installer’s Guide to Estimating: Winning Bids Without Losing Money

This week on The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose are joined by Scott Bohaker for a deep dive into one of the most important topics in the flooring industry — estimating.

Getting your bids right can make or break your business. In this episode, the crew breaks down how to win more jobs without cutting into your profits. Plus, Daniel and Scott join the conversation live from a training event, bringing real-world insight straight from the job site!

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How to create accurate estimates that protect your profit margin

• Common mistakes installers make when bidding (and how to avoid them)

• Real strategies for balancing competitive pricing and financial sustainability

• How technology and training can improve estimating accuracy

Whether you’re an installer, estimator, or flooring business owner, this episode is packed with real-world advice to help you build a more profitable and sustainable business.

Why This Episode Matters: At The Huddle Podcast, we’re committed to Forward Progress—empowering flooring professionals with practical insights, real conversations, and industry expertise.

⬇️ Don’t miss our sponsors who help make The Huddle possible:

🔧 ShagTools.com

Your go-to source for professional flooring tools, supplies, and accessories.

🛒 Use code HUDDLE10 for 10% off your first order!

👉 Shop ShagTools.com

🚀 Go Carrera

Build your profile, prove your skills, and connect with contractors—all in one place.

👉 Learn more at GoCarrera.com

🛠️ Stubbi Tools by Preferred Flooring

Installer-designed tools that work as hard as you do.

👉 Check out Stubbi Tools

NAFCT

NAFCT is a leading provider of flooring solutions, offering top-quality training, certifications, and support to elevate the industry.

👉 Learn more: https://www.nafct.com

🔹 Divergent Adhesives

Innovative adhesive solutions crafted for performance and reliability in the flooring industry.

👉 Check them out: https://www.divergentadhesives.com

🔗 Meet all our sponsors & partners: https://thehuddle.team/sponsors

Stay Connected & Join the Conversation!

The Huddle Podcast is where the flooring industry comes together to connect, learn, and thrive! Recognized as the #1 podcast in the flooring community, we provide an unmatched platform for professionals to discuss everything from installation techniques to industry trends.

At The Huddle, we’re all about driving Forward Progress—empowering seasoned installers, contractors, and flooring enthusiasts to grow, innovate, and lead in their craft. Whether you’re looking for real conversations, actionable insights, or inspiration to take your career to the next level, The Huddle is your home for real discussions that matter.

Want to be a guest on The Huddle? Email forwardprogress@thehuddle.team

We want to send a special shoutout to our sponsors!

FloorCloud
FloorCloud revolutionizes jobsite management with its cutting-edge platform, allowing contractors to remotely monitor ambient conditions like temperature and humidity in real-time. Paired with rugged sensors and instant mobile alerts, their technology ensures installations meet manufacturer specifications, reducing liability and enhancing quality control. Learn more at https://floorcloud.com

Go Carrera
Create your FREE Installer profile at https://gocarrera.com and become part of the future of the industry TODAY!
GET TRAINED! Find a list of training dates here: https://gocarrera.com/resources/training/

Preferred Flooring
Preferred Flooring proudly introduces Stubbi Flooring Tools—designed by installers for installers. Stubbi tools are crafted for precision, durability, and ease of use, helping flooring professionals tackle any project with confidence. Explore the full Stubbi line at https://preferredflooringmi.com/stubbi

Please visit our new website! https://thehuddle.team

It'll be fine. What is up, guys? Welcome back to the Huddle, your weekly

playbook helping you gain forward progress in your career. Simply put, we're here to help you guys win. To all

our new viewers, welcome to the team. And the staples of the podcast here,

Daniel and Jose Gonzalez from Grand Rapids, Michigan. What's up, fellas? How you guys doing? More like thumb like

thumb putty, right? Not staples, just thumb putty. Well, you guys are always here, so that

is a staple. So, today's sponsor is Divergent Adhesives. We'll play a video here in

the middle. Uh but I would be remiss prior to

discussing today's topic um to not mention a good friend of the podcast and

a good friend of the industry Dan Churchill and his wife Denise. I um

many of you have probably uh heard if you know Dan, but Dan passed away um and

uh after a battle in the hospital for for a while. I don't have a lot of

details um but I know that it's been hard on Denise and and um just your

thoughts and prayers with them. Uh, but more importantly is clicking that QR code that's on your screen to help

Denise uh to deal with this this um tragedy that she's having to uh deal

with. As we all have probably lost someone we love. It's it's pretty tough. Um a lot

of us have stories about Dan. A lot of people knew him a lot more uh time than

I did. I personally known Dan for, you know, several years, probably four

years, and he was always always a really good guy to me and

always uh last time I seen him was at convention and we were talking right after my uh

speech about AI. He he sent me to a website and uh got me watching

Postthuman. Uh and so uh he's he's um he's going to

be missed. I know a lot of people I've seen on um on Facebook in particular

doing a shout out to Dan. So um I'm a bit lost for words. I just seen

him a a week before he got sick. So, it's kind of a a tough thing when you got friends like that that uh go down

and they're long-distance friends. But anyway, I wanted to mention that and

please support Denise and click the QR code on the screen here and um buy a

raffle and and help them and and uh God bless D. So

yeah, I mean that's why I got the hat on today showing the support, right? Dan was a great guy and uh we can only

imagine what Denise is going through right now. And I mean it's it's not just you know what

what just happened, but you know she's been going through her own issues and then to have this happen on top of that. It's just

horrible timing. And Dan was a great guy. Um, I was just talking to Ashlin

right before we started this and was like, "Yeah, that dude would just call me and talk for for a couple hours and

just complain about industry stuff that I mean, we all complain about, but it's

like you're you're not in the position to to really make those changes, but you got to vent to somebody."

Yeah. He never um never held anything back when it came to the passion and what he what he wanted

to do for the industry. um always said hi, always took a picture, always said bye, you know, like

like come on. Yeah. Well, and everybody, you know, uh

probably has a Dan story, but mine's just super recent that posthuman thing. He's so into he was really into AI and

what it could do to our society. And so I got there and then I was leaving the

conference center uh later that day and I was just going to walk to my hotel,

you know, quarter mile or whatever, picks me up, gives me a ride, saw saw me

walking down the street, you know, and uh I think for my experience with Dan,

that's that's what he was a a good guy that really, you know, had his opinions and you would

know them and that's the type of people I like anyway. And then on top of that,

um you know, help out. He's willing to to do that thing. So, um my thoughts and

prayers are with you, Denise. Um I um I know this is tough on you. And um

we'll be thinking about you and and literally praying for you and and and uh your family. And I I hope everybody will

take advantage of of buying the the raffles and supporting Dan and his

family in his absence. So peace, my man.

Nice moment of silence for Dan there. All right. Well,

we're going to continue with the podcast here. Um today's topic is balancing speed and precision on hall high volume

installations. Um sometimes you'll really know who

picked these topics and this is some commercial guys picking these topics

on this one. Um, you know,

you guys know as well as I do that a lot of the pressure that comes from these in

the the the larger installs is unreasonable

scheduling expectations. And so I wanted to start there.

One of the biggest things that I think can help is discussing with your project

manager or your your general contractor or your owner, whoever you're dealing with

as your point of contact and discussing with them how

the durations are going to work. like straight up, you know, that's the time to have the conversation with them is

when you are starting out, you know, manage those expectations. If it's going to take you 14 days to do a job, a

portion of the job, you got to be very clear about that and get your dur durations

um set. So, and some of that might be like in the beginning conversations too, just kind

of um I don't want to say overstepping, but making sure that you are putting a

halt sign up like, "Hey, that that does sound really good, but listen, we're we're not factoring some variables.

we're going to have to extend this and if you didn't think about it, let's chat about this a little bit and maybe they can hopefully hopefully it helps uh them

change of direction and and helps them understand what they might have been missing. And uh I mean that's it seems

to be lately every commercial job is like that. It's go go go

and everybody wants it done yesterday. Um and

the length of the chain of command nowadays unlike a lot of the projects that we're on um from owner to installer

is there's a process right and just yeah the larger jobs have even more

people involved so the it adds complexity to the project where you got

you know probably a couple of project engineers and then a superintendent and

an assistant superintendent and probably a quality control person and all those

people are trying to get something done on the job and you're the one point that has to get it done for them. So

yeah, managing expectations the like if you get your schedule ask

for one of the things we try to do here um really that's really important is asking

for the project schedule when you get the contract and

that helps us to understand it also helps us to use it to mark out I mean

there's date there's times I've literally literally had two huge gang bathrooms

uh that they they gave me two days to do. Like we were going to install 1,800

foot of tile and grout it and be done in two days. We're going to lay 1,800 ft of

tile in one day and grout it the next or something. I I was like, uhuh. That's a

10day process. You might get away with eight if we get spunky, but we, you

know, if you need two crews, we can we can do it in in four days. Three days to

install in a day to grout each bathroom with two crews. Uh, but that's for a two

to three man crew, you're going to get, you know, about two to 300 square foot a day and that's it.

Well, sometimes, you know, depending on the space, the crew doesn't even matter, right? You can't bring another crew in.

And it's just it is what it is. I was on a a project and I was looking at, you know, this um pharmacy and they're like,

you know, got to got to bring more people in here to get it done quicker. And I'm like, you guys like you just

don't understand. All this is Flash Cove, right? It's it takes a a flatlay.

Yeah. We'll be able to get this done in one two days. Once you mix Flash Cove in there, it's a completely different

beast. So, and it doesn't matter how many more extra guys you bring in. And

this is where we talk about all the time, right, is the the the

labor shortage. It's not a necessarily a labor shortage. It's the qualified labor. And if you don't have those

qualified people, you're just putting bodies there for no reason. Yeah. Well, and you can have qualified people,

but just when you start to do there's a few things that we always try to point out. Like if you're doing a big room and

they want more people to lay more LVT, um I I'm not bringing in a separate

crew, another crew to work with another crew. Uh there's just the way they put

things together just it it matches from a like it's just

a way you push and tug on something that kind of you know, you know what I'm talking about. VCT in particular, how you how

you square up VCT and how you correct your VCT as you're installing.

Um, crews do that differently. And you can't just toss a bunch more people on

it. But in my scenario, I had two big bathrooms. I can put one crew in one

bathroom, one crew in another. That's fine. But to have it

half as much as two crews could do in a day, like not even half, like you know, or

twice as much as as a crew as two crews can get done in a day. So that's just a

long-winded way of like setting your durations and expectations to your customer ahead of time when they're

building the schedule or right after they're building the schedule is the best time. wait until you're on the job

and they gave you three days to do it and then you say that's impossible. They're like, "Well, why didn't you say

something earlier?" Right? I mean, there's been bids that I've done where they came back and it

was like, "Hey, the only differentiator is this company is saying that they can get it done on the schedule that we

have. Um, can you do that?" And I'm like, "No, that is literally impossible." They were like, "All right,

well, we're going to give it to them." I said, "Do what you have to do, but I'm letting you know that is impossible."

And then guess what? Guess what happens? You know, two months later when the project is is going, we get phone calls, hey, do

can you guys come help out with this project? And it's like, no, man. You you kind of buried yourself on that one.

Saying I told you, but sometimes you got to shrug your shoulders and say, "Tell

you." Yeah. And at the end of the day, man, like

you're trying to do a quality job and if you don't get out in front of it

like early on, then you are not doing yourself any favors. Uh because if you

don't give yourself the duration at least, I'll even break it down down to man days for him. like to do that tile

is going to be, you know, 22 mandays or 24 mandays. Well, that's a crew of you

can start chopping it up and get close uh if you want, but it still equals out

to 8 n days, you know. So that's the first thing I would say is

setting your expectation on, you know, how much you're going to get done

because it is balancing the speed and the quality or precision as we put it

and trying to give yourself enough time because you can still do it fast, but

some of them are just absolutely unattainable. Just like you said, Daniel, like no, I can't do it that

fast. That's impossible to even doing it close to right and doing it that fast.

Well, not only that is some of the schedules uh like you had mentioned about doubling up on cruise, right? Or they ask you to work around the clock or

around the clock does not uh factor in dry times. A lot of what we do, we're

waiting and we're waiting for things to dry and it's just like you guys, it needs to set for, you know, whatever,

however many hours, whatever product you're using, and they're like, "No, we we need a crew here for second or third

shift." Okay. What what are they going to do? Like, yeah, it depends on if it's, you know,

if you're pouring self level or something and you need 6 12 hours for it

to cure before you can sit on it, right? Or jipe, which is put anything on it. Well, then you're

just standing there. We've done two shifts when it when it can work. Um, but

and that's actually a good way to get around. I I find second shift gets,

you know, considerably more done by man hour than first shift, not having to

fight everybody. Um, and if you if you got a deal set with your GC that like

make sure this is cleaned out or my guys are going to turn around and walk home. Like they're gonna turn around, walk right back out the door. If they show up

at 8:00 tonight and this room's packed full of stuff, they're not going to move it. So, make sure it's cleaned out and

ready for them. And it's funny, they do a little bit better with that,

uh, at least in my experience than than the next day. There's plenty of times

I've been on a job and I'm like, "Hey, we're going to be here tomorrow. This has to be moved out and we get we get

there and this is where our industry kind of taints us a bit and we're kind

of stuck is the they get we get there and they're like, "Well, we wanted to make sure you

were going to be here before we took the time to move everything." Okay, we're here. Move everything. But

at night, they they tend to do it. So that's another technique to keep your to get those extra hours if you can,

you know, work a a second shift or something. If you are a company and you have the crews to be able to do that and

they can work next to the other crew, uh then great. What's another way you guys

go about um about managing that that balance between

getting a job done and you know those high volume projects where you're

expected to get you know well five 600 yards of carpet tile down a day kind of thing.

I'm not I'm not going to use a high volume project, right? But I'm going to use a high volume schedule. How about

that? Right. like where you have many smaller jobs that are kind of uh

piggybacking one another, but they also have start dates and deadlines. Um, you

know, I went and helped the guys out yesterday and this morning with uh a pattern match job because I know how

important it is to get the staging and the dry lines and getting the pattern and getting all that cut and laid right

and measuring elongation. I went and did all that to help them out so they could focus on the demo, the prep.

And once I got all that done, they're gluing it. It went it went down pretty quick. Once you have all the right uh

the right system is being used, it went down really quick. And uh I I thought it

was going to be a struggle to get it done by the end of the day today. So, we were good for tomorrow. But no, they

were cleaning up, ready to rock and and leave the job site at 3:30. Say, "Hey, what do you want us to do with all this

extra material?" I was like, you know, little smile like I want you

ask them. Leave it for the owner. What do you want? Do they have somewhere to store it? What do they want to do with it?

Yeah. I gota I got to tell you, like we had a job up in our out of our Kent City

office. It was kind of just like this. It was a big uh project, a bunch of

broad loom that is pattern matched and they gave us a ridiculous time frame.

one of more guys. I'm like more guys doesn't solve it. It's not like they can

jump out in front and start doing anything. I mean like this has to

be worked across this whole room and each pattern has to line up and

but you need to give us this amount of days and it was owner supplied carpet. We did the job, got it done. They got

two extra huge rolls and they're like, "Okay, you got to move that up to the third floor and we were like, um, my son

called me on it and I was like, no, our handling of the owner's materials is complete upon our completion. We're

done. Does he want me to come to his house and move his furniture, too?" Right? Like, what what what are we doing moving

stuff around that we are no longer dealing with? But, um, that was a side note. I like that side though, right?

Well, that's that's a learning moment for everyone too is that it's stand your ground. Make sure that that that's very

clear. Yeah, we we unloaded the materials and handled them and and moved them around

during our installation, but once we're done with the install and we turned over the building, we're not movers. We're

not just going to, you know, and if we'd have ordered the materials, we wouldn't have had, you know, bunch of bunch of

stuff left over. So yeah, it's um at at at this point when

we're doing one one other thing I'll throw out there is when you're you got to have a lead on your job. Um just, you

know, try not to change out your lead guide too much. We found that, you know, on these bigger projects,

getting to know each facet of them really pays off to have a a working foreman on site. So, whoever your lead

is is working as well, but they're also going to the job meetings. You know, a

lot of these bigger jobs have meetings every single morning. Safety meeting or a production meeting or a pool meeting

or, you know, something. And then you got weekly foreman meetings and all this

stuff. So having a foreman on site, we don't do a lot in flooring. Um

because we use subs so much and what we do is typically we'll have one of our

hourly guys on the job and run as a working foreman. uh or on for example

one job all he did was hang base but it covered his wage and he was able to have

enough time in between each you know area to be able to go to the job meetings and do the scheduling and

there you go all that stuff. Uh we have a job right now where the guy

he's installing in his capacity and then running the the the project itself as

well. I think Daniel Daniel and baby sister are on a project right now too where

they're both heavily involved in in the meetings. Uh she's she's the one there

that that's on the project every day every day and he's the one trying to coordinate what's needed, what's

missing, and what's what hasn't been going right, what has been going right. Um, I mean there's a

it's one of those one of those jobs projects I would say where came in to

help and holy smokes there's a lot of moving parts there. A lot of uh learning a lot of lessons on that one.

Yeah, that uh and he's okay about it, right? He's like

make sure you're keeping track of the meeting times and all this. And it's just like it is one of those huge

projects though where this is I mean it's a mental health facility.

It's got a couple floors, multiple different wings. I think he has like nine or 10 different flooring crews on

it and it's still like with that many crews on it, different companies, it's

still to the going to be to the wire on getting it done based on their schedule.

Yeah, that upfront schedule is key to making sure that you get enough time to

do your job. Yeah. And then, um, how do you control quality? I was going

to throw that at you guys. How do you control quality on a job like that? I'm getting ready to do a psych hospital

myself. Um, so how do you control quality on a job like that that's got,

you know, and when we're talking different wings, I'm assuming it's probably somewhat similar. These things

are designed similar um across the nation, but we're talking 20 30 minute

walk from one end to the other. 15 minutes maybe, you know, by the time you

get from one end of the like at the this building's built like a hand on these

like wings and there's hallways. Each finger represents a hallway. If you're

all the way down at this end and you got one way over here, it's a it's it's a lot of time to the

next. So, how do you control quality on those those types of projects?

Lots of walking. Well, I think it's about uh about lots of walking, right?

You you you don't uh intentionally schedule yourself in in two different wings that are opposite sides of a a

large building like that. you try to try to create a flow and progression and I think that that starts at the top is I

don't I don't think I don't think that they would intentionally do that to you

right like we have to have these two wings done at the same time simultaneously same deadline I don't

think they would intentionally do that but you know typically it's if it's a multi-level thing uh project then you're

you're starting starting on the third floor and working your way down right and then you move to another wing you

start on the third floor, work your way down unless something goes wrong. Um you would think that that brings up a really big tendency

that um general contractors have and that if you don't fight against it, you

can get locked into and that is this. Oh, hey, I need you over here to go do this thing and I want you over here to

go do this thing. Oh, we got the MRI machine way over here that we need you to do. And like you end up running all

over the building. You can't keep your tools consolidated. You can't keep things like I've said it a hundred times on

this podcast that I was not fast because I could spread

glue faster than anybody, although I was pretty fast at that. Um,

it was because of the way I set the job up. Mhm. You know, as an installer, going and

having a systematic way to approaching a project so that I wasn't going in in the

morning patching saw joints and waiting for them to dry. What I'm doing tomorrow has been patched the day before, two

days before. I don't care if I only had to clean if I if all I had was that much space to

clean out the saw joint uh space to be able to get a enough for my trial and

patch to get in the saw joint. I'm going to fill the first deep fill done, right? It's it's about uh

get them cleaned out. Strategic timing and one-touch policy. You only want to touch it one time. You

got to go back and go back and go back. Oh man, I had a touch. Yeah. That's that quality assurance,

catching it early when someone's still in the area, you're not going back and doing a punch list kind of thing. Um,

helps. And of course, we understand like we've got jobs where, you know, you get

something done and then they're tearing your base off the wall and cutting a hole in the wall because you got to get to something and then you're going back

and doing a repair and it's like, geez louise. But those things aside, being on

top of your quality as you go, keeping the expectation level high for your

crew. If you're a crew lead and you're out there installing, keep the expectation level high of everybody. And

then if you're a manager or a foreman on your job, you know, making sure to uh

stay out ahead of that is a key deal. you know, using make sure the right

adhesives are being used in the right area. And speaking of right adhesives, it's a good time to uh play today's uh

sponsor video from Divergent Adhesives.

Does Divergent have a video? I think we just shout them out and talk about it.

Well, if they don't, they should. We We should We should give them a video.

No, divergent adhesives. You know, when you need the best, the toughest, the most reliable adhesive on the market,

you want to you want to buy from someone who knows their stuff. And and I can't tell you enough about Sunny. He knows

his stuff and he knows how to uh you know how it is from an installer's

perspective to deal with these adhesives and the mitigation systems. They've got a one-part single application mitigation

system. That's awesome. Uh, so make sure to go check out Divergent Adhesives and

uh, show them some love, buy some of their adhesives because they are awesome. And when you need a tough

quality adhesive, Divergence your adhesive brand to go to.

Yes, sir. I I just talked to him last week when I was uh on the phone with the

manufacturer and I'm like uh looking at a project and I'm like, "Hey, is there any way that we can do something else

with this adhesive so that way it cures faster?" And they were like, "Hold on, let me get you the information." And

they gave me they they said his name. I said, "I'll just give him a call after this."

Yeah. The guy in the bucket. you know, the guy on the bucket. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's good to have a

direct contact, but if you don't, I know that they've got good support as well. So, yeah, check out Divergent. Rollins

says, "Uh, working on any job, plan ahead is always key for a smooth job." I

I think that's what we've uh said this as we've gotten started here, and I agree 100%. You know, planning ahead is

not just it's it's about making sure you can accomplish the goal. Evaluate the

schedule, know what you're expected to do, and then set the right expectations. And then when he's talking about

planning, it's like setting up and making sure that you're out ahead of yourself on the things that you're going

to have to wait on. Um, we've had jobs where the glue takes forever and we just

decide we're going to, you know, like a pressure sensitive to dry. We just decide, you know, we're going to take

we're going to have to work a longer day today because this glue is not drying. I'm not going to stand here with my my

hands in my pockets. I'm going to go ahead and just keep gluing a couple more rooms and then go when the f until the

first room's dry and and we've done that, you know, and you get a heck of a

lot done. Uh, you know, when you got to do it that way, but it's it's just

trying to maximize that you're always moving. That's what the mechanics, as

they called them back when I first started, helpers and mechanics. But my lead installer, my mentors always taught

me you something should be happening. You should not be patching and watching

your patch dry or gluing and watching your glue dry, right? Or you know,

there should be something else. Now, sometimes we have to, but it's as simple as keep in motion. You know, if you got

vinyl base to do, like a simple example would be instead of going in and doing

the vinyl base in a classroom, for example, or you know, 10 classrooms and

you got 20 of them to do, go in and glue up three or four of them. And while the

glue is drying, go put your base on the ones that are done. like keeping in motion is one of the best ways and

keeping that productivity going forward is one of the ways that you can get these big jobs done uh in a pretty uh

efficient time frame, you know, and some of some of that um some of what you're saying too is uh is

on leadership too, right? like um if if you're you're the the lead on a project and and you you know you're going to get

to a point where there's three people watching you um make sure that in the back of your head you have you have

something for them to do, right? Like if we get to a point and I know that um and

I'm just going to use the the project we were just I was just on. I I gotta I gotta cut these seams and get them

sealed up, right? I I got to get these seams prepped instead of letting people

watch me because they're not down there cutting it. They're not asking the right questions. Hey, do you guys got the

tools organized? You guys wipe down uh the the wood base? I know we got it a little bit dusty. There's some things

that are what tools are we not using anymore? Are we done with the prep tools? Go ahead and put those away. Start, you know, start getting stuff off

the project that we no longer need. And it was just as simple as, you know, look up and you see someone watching. You're

like, you're not doing anything right now? Nope. waiting on you. Oh, no, you're not waiting on me. You have this

to go do. Never waiting on anyone. Yeah, there's always something to do. I mean, and that's why we're so relatable to

sports, right? Because our all of our daughters are finally in

travel softball. And so, we're back at square one. And that's what I find

myself, you know, telling them. It's like you're moving every single play. There's there's never a time where the

ball gets hit or there's a pitch where you're not looking for something to do, right? You're everyone has a job.

Whether it's to back someone up or you're the one going to get the ball, everyone has a job. And when you're

looking at large scale projects like that, um it's really easy for just your

workstation to be super messy. Go clean that up, organize the tools, redo this,

you know, clean up this area. And people don't really think about that until

you're there pointing it out to them. But I've been on, you know, some jobs where I go and help them out and

everyone's all doing something. So guess what I'm doing? All right, I'm going to reorganize this room right here. Get everything in order so that way they

don't have to worry about it. Mhm. Yeah. And

the analogy that uh comes to mind, I don't even know where I got this, but it

was brewing coffee. And the the concept is you don't put your coffee on to brew

and stand there and watch it drip until it's done. You put the coffee

on to brew and you go do something else. You're actually doing two things at once that way. uh you may go jump in and take your

shower and then you know but something's happening while that coffee is brewing. So the that's like getting patch on the

floor where it has to be put in a day or so not the moment you need to get in

that room because the coffee is brewing. It's it's going that thing is doing its

cure time and doing everything it needs to do to be properly sanded and prepped for LBT or carpetile or whatever you're

doing. So, you know, getting that coffee brewing, thinking like that, what can I

get out and get going? I can spread that LVT for that little break room over there. While that's drying, I'll go over

here and do layout for the carpet tile. Make sure that these guys can get going spreading their adhesive for that. And

then I'll go back over there and lay. When I'm done there, I'm going to come back and pull this guy off and have him

start basing behind us and have these other two continue on because the patch should be, you know, 100%. Whatever.

Like, you're always trying to keep the keep the pro productivity moving. And the more you can think about that and

like Rollins said, planning ahead for your job, that's a daily thing. That's

not on these big job big jobs. It's a daily thing. So thinking about the next day at the end of the day is a little

hack u in life really. I mean I do my to-do list the night before for the next

day. So, I try to have some confluence into my days. Um, and I'm doing things

productively and I don't get caught up in all the fires, although I do get caught up in fires. Um, you know, still,

but I try to plan around to not be that way as much as possible. And so, at the

end of your day, getting together with the superintendent before you leave a big job and saying, "Hey, just so you

know, this is kind of what we're thinking." or sometimes we're working with either behind electricians or in

front of painters or behind painters and in front of like those two trades we're constantly dealing with. A lot of times

I'll I'll tell my foreman just get with the those two guys where they going next and make sure that you got space to move

up. Be nice to the electrician. He might even pick up his wire shavings and his

his uh his wire nuts at the end of the thing. uh you know and not leave you a

mess to clean up. But it's true, right? like trying to keep the job moving is

about trying to keep tomorrow ready today

and being transparent um is huge and and sometimes sitting in those progress meetings and being absolutely

transparent on and setting a level of expectations with the other trades like hey you guys

listen this what you guys are doing here you can't be spray painting and marking the floor anymore I got to grind all

that off you're costing me time you know uh electricians that Like I I love the power and I love that you guys got the

lights on, man. But you guys carry another extra bucket with you for all your clippings and your knockouts like

like you just said. Um plumbers, you know, you guys are cutting all this pipe right now and your oil is like getting

into the fire sprinkler guys always getting their oil on our floor. Sprinkler guys, you know, they're just

some of it is because they don't know rather than they don't care. All right. But um if you part of the solution and

not the problem and help educate and just bring it up, they it's just a quick little change on their behalf to help

you become uh a little bit more efficient as well because now you don't have to spend extra time uh correcting

items that other trades might not know of. Um but once they do know, they make

it part of their routine as well. And then yeah, that synergy working with the same

the same companies and over and over. You create a great great uh team atmosphere. The synergy is great. You

understand each other. You know what to expect. If if they say they're going to have something ready for you,

they're they're not just saying it anymore. That's that's what I miss is going into the jobs and then the the guys that

you've been working for for years. As soon as you get there, they look at you and they're like, "Hey, we got to get all this stuff away from here right

now." Cuz they don't guys are about to come in. They don't play around.

Yeah. Meeting on that job, right? They're cuz we've known each other for so long.

And I'm like, uh, you know, can you guys can just, you know, go do this? And he was like, Daniel, I'm not even worried

about you guys, man. Like, I already I already know I can communicate with you. It's just certain people. And

it happens as long as we're not the those people. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I try to tell my guys

a lot of times. Uh one of the things that happen to the best of us, dude, is

they're saying, "You got to be done on this day and you're looking around and you're like, there's no freaking way to

finish this thing. There's no way they're going to finish it." and you start to let off the pedal because like

that you just don't think there's any way and you're probably right uh that

they're going to get the rest of the job done. But I always tell my guys like

we're not going to be the ones. Let's make sure we're not the ones. We're not

going to be participating in them not finishing. We're gonna finish our work

and we're gonna get done as best as we can in all of our power to get done on

time. But you know, because it's it's easy to look around and then kind of let off the gas.

But it's amazing what'll happen when other letter other companies start

getting letters and you know uh you know delay letters or something you know and

they all of a sudden have some extra guys to put the ceiling tile in or whatever the problem is. So I always

tell I I just don't want my guys getting sidetracked with it. Can we finish? Yeah. Okay. Then we're going to

Yeah. It is. Um, and that that's that's what happened cuz you were

talking earlier about uh, you know, projects and

it's just like the flow of things and you know,

one of the projects we're on, it's like things keep on happening where it's like, all right, well, and it's it

wasn't anything that we did, but it's like this has to get redone and I want you over here to keep pushing

forward, but I also want you over here redoing these things. And it's like,

which one is more important, guys? Because

Yeah. And and that's where you got to communicate and be like, I can do this, but I need two days added to my to my

duration, you know, or whatever the time frame you need. That's happening on a

current project we're doing right now where it's just like the the hole in the wall

was a real thing, you know, and they it was a pocket door or something

had to be redone. They had to cut a hole in the wall and take off our base and do all this stuff. Um and it was flash

cove, so it's not like just taking vinyl base off the wall and putting new vinyl base on. And so, um, you know, but they

want, as soon as they got their door fixed, they wanted it buttoned back up and cleaned back up and finished. Well,

okay, but that's that's rework. And this is the problem we all get into. That's

rework. And I'm at capacity to get done in time with who I have. When how am I

supposed to do that? You know, right? Um, and a lot of times if you have a good GC, they'll work with

you and be like, "Hey, can you do it on the weekend and I pay all overtime and

all this and all that, you know, and we've worked deals out like that, but

you know, just um communication from a PR a first principal's perspective, I'd

say communication about what you can get done and and you know, your durations,

that communication and the communication to your team about your expectations

and and quality expectations. Um, and then stay in motion, baby. Get

the coffee brewing somewhere and get going on something else while that coffee is brewing.

Get the coffee brewing somewhere, you know? Or you could be like me, ADHD, and you start that coffee, start it

brewing, and then you put too many things in while on your list. like, you know, while that's brewing, let me just

do uh four hours of work real quick and forget about my coffee. And then and then he puts it in the

microwave and then forgets it in the microwave. Yeah. Um

maybe that's not the best analogy. Well, it's different, right? Because we

have a cure rig, so you can do that. But when you're brewing a big pot, it's different, right? It's always ready,

basically. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the the other thing what

what's another deal? So, like setting the job up expectation wise, setting it

up flowwise. What's another big thing that needs to

be on, you know, everyone's mind when they're doing a a larger, you know,

again, the topic is balancing speed and precision. That could be speed and quality on high volume installation.

That doesn't always mean it's a big job. It could be that job that you, you know, we did a bunch of um used to do a lot of

uh McDonald's mod C remodels start to finish, dude. 13 days period

like and we had 10 of them and that was it. So our tile, if we were doing the

demo, we had 13. If we were not, we had 10 days to go in and lay, let's call it

right around 6,000 ft of tile done, grouted, complete.

So, what was really important for me was

making sure I had the right crew that had the DNA that could move quickly. You

know, you have those crews that they're good, they're just not going to be the fastest guys. And you got those guys

that are fast and good. And then you got a mix of both of those, you know,

you know, I would say uh communication like as in like even if like a 13-day

job, even a fiveday job, a two-day job, even because you know, you have things that are coming uh after that is uh and

we're on our guys right now about it is communication like updates. If you are behind, I need to know that you're

behind. There's a lot of other parts. there's some things that we have to do to make sure we have to prep the client

or you know are we behind because of material are we correcting material are we missing material like um just you

that doesn't always have to be behind for the cause of us being behind but I'm just throwing out other examples

well I mean it's a it's an absolute part of it though you know being be being behind is like

that's because of materials or something I mean those things happened. I mean, I'm not perfect. I ain't going to tell

you that I've never been short on material on a job. I estimated it's happened. And

when it does happen, you are got you've got that you caused yourself some some scramble

mode, right? And the day of the week, too, right? Like if if something happens on a Friday and you know at 9:00 in the

morning, but you don't tell me until 4:30 p.m. on Friday, I just I just lost I just lost the the

the solution, right? Because this it could have been worked on a little bit Friday, but maybe a solution could have

been presented first thing Monday morning instead of us talking about a solution Monday morning. Um, it's just

items like that. And it's it's hard to it's hard to to stress the importance of

that type of communication when people are just trying to go in there and get it done. And, you know, and hey, you

know what? We're be Oh, I forgot to tell you, we're behind schedule because we didn't get this room until 2 p.m. on Friday because let's just say the

electricians were in there and they needed to get out of our way. Okay. Well, we've been there since Monday.

When when when did they tell you that they were going to be in there on Friday and they were behind? Oh, they told us

on Wednesday. Oh god. Hey guys, I hate to cut myself out short

right now, but I got to go because I'm supposed to be at the school in five minutes because I volunteered to cook at

um the marching band competition today. All right. Well, have fun at that. We're getting ready to wrap her up anyway.

appreciate you being on Mr. Daniel. All right, see you guys later. See you, brother.

Yeah, so all the all the I mean communication

and knowing your job is the two of the things that like will

help you the most. I think from a first principles kind of pro project understanding and uh communicating with

both your client and your crew that's absolutely huge this you know we

do full service and and labor only right for other flooring companies as well and uh this is uh one of the projects where

the information that I give is way more thorough and detailed than the information that the person that we're

doing their project gives to the client. Right. So, there were some things that

weren't passed along, which right away put us in a different spot on day one than I

thought we were going to be. Hence the reason why I was there helping with the layout and trying to alleviate some of

the stresses of that that deadline. I just, you know, we were half day behind on day one.

Yeah. Last thing I'll say is document. Um, you know, whether

you're doing someone's house, you're doing a a commercial project, uh you're

working with a custom home builder, I whatever your your gig is. Again,

communicate, but communicate in your delays that you were caused. Um, we this is a

work in progress. Even with my team, we've been in business for 25 plus years. Um, and

we I still we still struggle to get this perfect uh or get it right even. But

when you are delayed for two or three days because of the XYZ, whoever that

is, you have to send in an email and let them know, hey, I was delayed. I was

supposed to start on the 13th. I didn't get started till the 16th because of this, this, and that. My durations

cannot start till the 16th. And just communicate that kind of thing.

Otherwise, you're going to be chasing, you know, you're going to be dealing with some phone calls. And this is what

I really try to drill into my guys is like, you're going to deal with it now or later. later, it's going to be an

upset client because you're not done with the what you were supposed to be done with, but you never told them you

weren't going to be done by then. So, you have to communicate when things fall apart, when guys get sick and you're not

going to quite get there or you got held up by, you know, the the painters or

electricians or drywallers, whatever the scenario. and that when you're held up,

when you you can't quite get done, then you got to be able to communicate that. So, yeah, 100%. And um you just said

something a moment ago about uh writing it down. Um,

when you're on the large commercial or residential, start writing down some of the things that might hinder your

progress because then you could kind of incorporate some of that literature into your contract or maybe a questionnaire

uh for your client if you're doing residential to kind of u leave out the guesswork and make sure that they

understand what they are responsible for and what you are um so they can have their ducks in a row as well. Um,

yeah, most of the time they'll appreciate you for this kind of thing. Um,

some clients they just don't want to hear nothing, but that's, you know,

is what it is. Um, but

a lot of them will appreciate your your kind of being upfront with them, you

know, and letting them know where you're at. So, nobody likes to be in scramble mode, man. Yeah.

All right. Well, that is uh bringing us to the end of the podcast today. I want to thank everybody who did join us. It

was a little bit down today on our viewership. I would encourage everybody who watches this on YouTube, join us

live. It's really uh great when you guys make comments and uh and uh give us some

different perspectives to consider. So, we would love for you to join us live on

the podcast here every Tuesday at 300 PM Central. 4 PM Eastern. And uh you know,

give us your feedback. Let us know what you guys are uh are um thinking on your side about our topics and and uh how

they apply to your life. Uh want to again thank uh the divergent adhesive

folks, Sunny and uh that whole team and uh for sponsoring this this podcast, but

also for just making great products. So thank you very much. And again, uh Dan

will be deeply missed as you can see running across the bottom of our uh screen. Um we we hope that Denise is um

dealing with this with loved ones and surrounded by a lot of love right now. That's not hyperbole. We really hope

that everything is is um is, you know, as best as they can be under the

circumstances for Denise. So our prayers are with you for sure, hun. and we will um continue to support in

every way we can. Again, get involved and help them out. We certainly appreciate everybody and we will catch

you guys next week. Thank you everyone.