The Huddle - Episode 166 - Mastering the Art of Patterned and Custom Flooring Installations
This week on The Huddle, Paul, Daniel, and Jose are joined by special guests Dave Garden and Jerry Miller to dive into the world of patterned and custom flooring installations.
From advanced layouts and design techniques to solving challenges on complex projects, this episode is packed with tips, insights, and inspiration for installers and business owners looking to take their craft to the next level.
Whether you’re aiming to expand your skills or deliver show-stopping results for your clients, this is an episode you won’t want to miss!
Don’t Forget! Next week we’ll be broadcasting LIVE from the 2025 Synergy Convention & Expo in Nashville! Paul and Jose will host in front of a live audience (while still streaming online for you to join in), covering what to expect this year, how it’s evolved, and the big industry shifts ahead.
Please note: Next week’s episode will air at a special time—5 PM CST instead of 3 PM CST.
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Dave, we got Dave. Well, we we have a you ready? All right.
We have a one day we have a one-day pattern matching course or a two-day pattern matching course at CFI and and
what they would be is pattern pattern identification and correction C courses.
Now, they aren't certification. They are training courses. All right? And these and these courses uh are designed
to help installers both identify and then correct uh patterns in carpets.
All right. right now. But it uh what makes these courses so important is
I I don't know if you can go into any store or work as a flooring installer, a carpet installer especially with
something happens four out of five days a week
and complexities of them are not um um they they are they are
what we do is very difficult but it's also what we should be doing every day So it should be standard knowledge to
any.
Yeah. So th these courses um that that's a great spot to kind of
start is to understand that there is an outlet to actually go and learn this stuff uh and some of the techniques and
topics that we're going to talk about. Uh so the very first part of that course
is pattern identification. To me, that's like step one,
right? You got to know there's a pattern and be able to identify it on any product. It is. And you get a lot of sales people that
will look at a half inch by half inch pattern and they're like, there's no pattern on this. And then that's how they price everything. And that's just
not the case. You know, that small pattern typically takes the most time of every anything. I'll tell you, in the
commercial world, I I would much rather have a three-foot pattern than a quarter inch or a half
inch pattern across a big room. I mean, by far,
actually, in a commercial world, you want to deal with those panel matches, man. Those those things are pretty slick.
Yeah. Well, that's a little bit different and uh nice. Um yeah, we do
that a lot in the assisted living, those panel m panels.
But um so walk us through what the step one is guys. Um like what is when you
say pattern identification meaning you look at a piece and you see a pattern what what do you mean by pattern
identification? Typically whenever we have a classes
going on first thing we do is get them stick a post a note whatever the little round dots in their hand and say
identify the patterns get is it set matches it drop match where are the patterns where it let them mark it ones
that do not know that you really think that know uh what's the difference
between a set match and drop match what does that matter matter to you especially all of you uh in the
commercial field, the the amount of saves you on a set
match, I mean a drop match opposed to a set match is maybe make you get the job
or not get the job. Whenever the guy went there in front of you and he measured three inches plus a
pattern every every cut he had there, you might beat him out because you knew
it was a drop match instead of a set match. It's quarter inch drop, maybe half drop, whatever. But identifying the
pattern itself is major. U will you define set match versus a drop
match? It's kind of hard to do, but I can tell you if you see the the pattern going
side by side and you're making a square of it and that same pattern is dead in
the center or a quarter down. It's about the best way I know how to tell you without showing you. If the four corners
are the same, then you got one in the center. It's a half drop. If it's two,
it could be a quarter drop. All you'd have to do move over quarter or a half
and drop down a half is to lose an 18 inches. You're going to lose nine inches per cut. Does that make sense to
everybody? So essentially in practice when you're out measuring a job,
we would we would go in, drop our first drop, our set drop, our
main uh drop, and we cut as we go.
So you don't just go into a say a 30 by 30 room with a a twoft pattern and just
start adding two feet or a 31 by 30 room. You don't just add two feet to
every drop. You go in, you mark it, you measure from your mark to the the next
pattern or to the end of your your room. Yep. Exactly.
Well, I'll tell you, uh, patterns are very visual. It's everything's visual, right? But you got a lot of commercial and they
know what the cuts are and they're just going to add that.
Yep. lofty at uh whenever we were cutting patterns and Jerry your point is really good but when
whenever we're cutting patterns we'd always just if it was a two-foot pattern we would count the patterns because
you'd be surprised at how how often you get you have elongation all over the place right I mean that's that's it's
natural to what we're doing um when you're when you're cutting a pattern so we count the patterns and and cut to the
pattern not to the measurement therefore we knew we had a good starting point. Now, when you're you're talking about a
a drop match or a set match residentially, you're you're talking about you could
save a if you have a drop match, you can save a lot of carpet right in the doorways because you'll find that your
your set matches. There are times you have to bring your seams and put seams in in odd places.
Yeah. Just to make sure your patterns line up because remember, you have to start in that hallway and lock everything into
the hallway. And there are there are times that uh you you do things that you wouldn't normally do if you didn't have
a pattern. Now, if you're working commercially and you're working with wide wide open areas, you can actually
lay the carpet out and get a good visual just by standing off to the side and looking through. All right? which is a
little bit more difficult residentially that uh so there there are two different worlds
but as far as a drop match and a set match goes residentially those those drop matches really really uh save you
time and effort. So once you've got somebody and you they're they're they
learn how to identify the pattern, what kind of pattern it is and the best way
to uh to do that. You you you um have them do so by marking them on the
carpet. Then we're talking about, you know, layout like going forward, how are
you going to do this job? uh what's the next step for um
after you've identified the pattern then then you know what to cut or at
least you know how to cut your your uh drops but what's next after that a lot
of patterns aren't straight a lot of patterns aren't even [Music]
well first thing you have to do is find your locking points what I always called them there are points that you identify
points in the pattern that you know are going to meet each All right. Whether it being a doorway or a
longer a hallway seam or a or even a um a living room seam uh residentially
speaking, you get those locking points and now you know where your pattern's got to go and you lay them out. You can
see that one might need to be stretched up to meet the other. And you could take care of all of that prior to doing the
seam uh prior to actually um melting the seam. So once you get that pattern
straight, uh once you get that pattern straight and once you get the it matched
up, the scene becomes very simple. And uh again, I'm I'm saying I'm I'm using
the word simple when I shouldn't be because none of this is simple, right? Not not a bit of simple, just not easy, right?
No. Commercially speaking, right? But um commercially speaking, if
you're working with um if you're working with uh adhesive project, say you're doing a
double stick, a large double stick, there's there's a lot more play because
now you have to be concerned about your adhesive, how long how long it takes your adhesive before it tacks up, how
long how much working time you have, how then you got to straighten your patterns. You got to take the bows out
of them, the skews out of them, and all all that good stuff, right? So, you can't you can't build the thing before
you glue. You can pre-stretch like we we will pre-stretch, right? Um,
you know, say you got a three-foot pattern match at a casino and
you line up your center pattern because we I would always work from the center and go obviously I'd work both
directions as opposed to trying to stretch it all the way across the room. So, I'd match that center what you call a locking
point and then see what I had to do and try to I'd pre-stretch everything. But
carpet would all, you know, you can get them to match up and then it's going to shrink back. So, you still have to
stretch it and stay nail it and do all these things after you've glued it. But, we would pre-stretch it, which I think
is I mean, do you guys agree with that? Because I I think something that so many
commercial guys miss that would make your life a ton easier.
Well, what most commercial guys don't understand, if you have a ballroom and you have to do this in a ballroom, you
have the opportunity to do this in a ballroom. The extra time it takes you, not extra time. That's not extra. It's
time you have to factor into the job, right? So, it's not extra at all. You just have to factor the proper amount of
time for the job because what's going to happen is if you don't, you're going to end up working bitter. And work working
bitter is not that's not fun, guys. That's not fun at all. I like how you put that. Working bitter.
I've done that a time or two, I must say. Oh, I I have too. That's That's why I
can speak to it, man. There's not a lesson you can learn that I haven't already learned.
You asked where do you start? I said you asked where you start identifying the carp pattern. Okay. Now,
if you was doing a residential job, too many times we as installers, we started out with maybe large living room, the
den, we're cutting those large cuts off that roll of carpet and we were working in master bedroom. We're going to save
that hallway till uh we'll add it to our field pieces that's going in the living room or
diner, whatever. Maybe eliminate a seam. That's what we've done for years. The
problem of it is if we have a claim and they come out on that claim, that inspector wants to find out what your
cut sheet was. Most of the time they don't realize what they're doing because I don't care if
it's residential or commercial. 99% of the carpet roll at the flap, the pattern
is larger than it is at the core. It shrinks at the core. So if you start off cutting all your large cuts off of the
flap, now whenever you started working at the core, all your areas that you're
working with, you're have to stretch, manipulate that pattern where it lines. The same thing on a commercial job.
knowing what that pattern match is. People think in their mind that row sequence means that number on
that freaking road that shows you which rows smaller road to the big roll which is it's the craziest thing that ever
happened. Roll sequence is a pattern that's in within the roll itself.
You take in today's world, it might be seven different meals coming off that same computer and as it kicks it's it's
putting numbers in that computer might be coming from Calhoun Georgia. Uh it it
doesn't matter it don't matter it's just popping up there and you start trying to go them roll numbers you don't know
where it's coming from. Now, if you roll that roll out, the first 5 to 10 ft of
that row, I don't fool with it. The next 15 20 ft, I'm going to do a pattern
measurement. When you say when you say you don't fool with it, Jerry, you mean you don't you
you don't use it for your pattern match identification purposes. identification
on it because it's going to the the the last five 10 feet the first five 10 feet seem like there's something wrong with
that carpet is there. So I'll go in where I call the meat of the carpet and I get my pattern that way I know exactly
what those measurements are. So there's so many times guys I go out on commercial field and and I could show
you we we do classes on it and uh there it looks like a snake going through
there. the pattern looks off and all I do is go through and do a pattern count and I mark roll them up guys if row one
it's row two row three roll them out they're going we don't need you no more and you leave and all you showed them
how to do is count patterns so you got um we we have been three years ago we I put
together a team they wanted me to and I did it uh from the manufacturer
different people of the tech company to come to convention let them know what we could come out in the field to teach.
And you realize that we never got but one facility that invited us over to
show them carpet. We're talking about all the major manufacturers there. We got one coming up next month. Uh you
guys will hear more about it probably convention. But you got Shaw, you got Mohawk, you got Milican,
you got Nurissan. I'm trying Manington I'm trying to remember everybody's going to be there
guys but all their tech guys the major onesman Paul Carols Bruce Gentries of the world going to be there to teach
an inspector class claims class people come in there that we've done the same thing for the the union
the knowledge is out there guys and all you got to do I see so many claims that that's all I dealt with since 95 96
u and all it they could be in the business for 30 years
and and you take whenever the economy went rough. Money had already been allocated to the
commercial division. Those buildings already had and that that carp is going down. So you got residential guys
bidding a commercial job that didn't have a clue about commercial. All you
know the difference between a residential job and commercial. But then they get it and then they
realize they bid it too cheap. They didn't factor in all the the layouts,
moving carpet around, whatever they had to do. All they used to do is that mom and pop house.
What I learned a long time ago before CFI, knowledge was power.
And more knowledge we get at you guys are doing here, I I I applaud what you
guys are doing. And I really do and I appreciate what you guys are doing to the industry.
All we do is tell people to go talk to whenever you got a closed mind. You've been here. Pardon me.
I said all we do is tell people to go talk to the pros like you guys. Well, you got you got you got people
that I don't care who you get up to, you know.
Yeah. One of the things tell you that I Go ahead, Dave.
I I've I've handed my number out uh throughout most of most of the East Coast, but uh when we get to the West
Coast because it works so late, I like to hand Jerry's out, you know. Uh
try to get keep away from those 10:00 calls.
Jerry, a couple questions real quick if you don't mind. Um he had mentioned a couple things about pattern measurement
and pattern count. Um, and this is something uh that can be taught in one
of the classes that you guys offer. Uh, could you elaborate on that a little bit for some of the viewers?
Everything is set up like on 12T guys, 144 in the manufacturer, that's the way it is. Uh, and so whenever you're you
look at a pattern, you might have 15 patterns in 145 inches. Okay? What you
do is you identify the pattern and I try to get the same person running
the dummy in the seaming tape. I tell them exact where I want it and I'm going to go be measuring the other side. That
way whenever I'm coordinating with the manufacturer finding out if they've got more attic stock or whatever or we got
rolls of carpet down in and the driveway and I'm up on the third I don't be running back. I can tell him bring me
field up here for X amount inches 18 patterns in 145 and a quarter inch. If
you're on a commercial job, every eighth inch matters because you got 94 foot
lengths on that sucker and a pattern's only off eighth of an inch. That's still it's off what? Seven
inches at the other end. As long as you start in the middle like Paul said. Now
you've divided that pattern. It was off 7 in. Now it's only off 3 and 1/2 in.
You're going left 3 and 1/2 in and right 3 and 1/2 in. Uh but pre-stretching what
he was saying, that's critical. Yep. Anybody that doesn't do that, they're
they're hurting yourself. But guys, I hurt myself a lot before I learned that.
But pattern counting to me, pattern measurements, as you want to put it, uh
I don't care if it's a field piece in a residential or a roll of carpet. that I've got a feel for on a commercial job.
I want to find out what those pattern measurements are like like on that that
residential job that we had the one roll of carpet. I'm going to cut I might be
adding a butt seam on field piece near a wall, but I'm going to put that the
field piece between those two big cuts or three big cuts in the center. That
way it's going to align to those patterns. I don't have to fight it. what we're trying to do on a residential job
or commercial to save us seem we're putting it all at the end of the row where we're dealing with all the small
patterns in that row. Now, I'm saying this now I I want to run
up a red flag. If you got your your roll of carpet and you looked at that roll and it's got plastic on the outside and
it's got tape on the inside, that roll probably your small patterns
on the outside and not the inside. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Whenever it comes to the manufacturer, trust me, when it comes to manufacturer, it rolls over, they wrap it right there
and it's gone. If they somebody I don't care machine or whatever totem because
you take the lasers they got on today they they know what when that carpet's out of skew bowl they're want to send it
over and check to find out if if it's a out of tolerance all that meant it left that
roll and went to quality control and quality and control now rolls that roll
out when they roll it out it they're rolling it backwards. Are you with me? Roll it backwards. would love too.
Now, now whenever they do that, they put tape on that roll and they send it over to the rapper.
So when you see tape on it, that mean that that roll has been checked. And trust me, that's one of the first
rolls I'm jerk down and look at. I'm going to look at that roll first. I'm gonna find out what's wrong. Why did
they jerk that roll the side? Okay. And
as you're rolling it out, you look for a cut mark on the on the salvage edge. You look for
Hey, there he goes. Markers, whatever. Okay,
that let you know right there. They spotted something that roll. And that's where you want to check it.
So that roll touches the hand handle twice. So if you have five rolls and one roll is come set up the way you just
mentioned, that means that somebody looked at it again to make sure
Well, I I want to go back to your to your very first uh comment and question,
Jose, and just try to summize what uh what has
been said is essentially you could have first off identifying the
pattern size is similar to tile. Like it says it's 24x 24 tile, but how often do
you pull out a tile and it's 24 in, right? it's 23 and a quarter or it's 23 and 7/8 or whatever and you got to use
the grout joints to essentially turn that into a 24 by 24 tile. And sometimes
you can't do that. Uh but every architect and everybody thinks it's when
they say it's a two-ft pattern match that it's actually two feet. And it may be considered a twoft pattern match, but
I've had on the width side, uh, you know, not have you have to cut into a
pattern, you know, let's say on a commercial, uh, carpet, you're cutting the salvage off and into the carpet a
couple of inches to get to the actual pattern. But when you measure the pattern after you've cut off your salvage, the
roll width is, you know, 11 ft 7 and a half 7 in or 6 in or whatever. My point
being is that a twoft pattern match doesn't always mean it's perfectly two feet. And if you were to just, you know,
uh, assume that, that could be a problem. So measuring a room and adding two feet is a waste of carpet if you
don't mark your your um or do like Dave said. I I never did that and that's a
great idea is just count the patterns. And if you're shy on the wall because you counted pattern and then made your
cut, you might be a half inch or an inch or whatever shy of that wall, but that's what you need to stretch to. Um,
so I'm assuming that's what you meant by that, right, Dave? Like you count the patterns and if say it's six patterns to
finish the room and you are starting at a full pattern at the the base of the room and you got six full patterns
across it, you wouldn't if you just measure and cut to the next pattern, you
could be adding an additional pattern or something if it's like a 8 incher.
Yeah, you absolutely you could be cutting yourself shorter. you can be adding much m as much as you it's it's
not only about where you end the room, it's about where you where you end the cut. It's about where you start the next cut. That's what's so important here.
Yes. To make sure we start in the right spot. So if I'm if I'm if I have a pattern, we're going to say two feet, but it's
actually 23 and and and a half, right? So if by the time I get to 20 feet, I've
lost five inches. You understand what I'm saying? So, so I
can't do that. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to cut to that pattern. Therefore, I have got a good starting
point as well as an ending point. And again, it's got to be larger than the room. All right.
Yeah. And a lot of times in these rooms, uh, not to chime in here, but I did a
lot of pattern matching when I did bra. Another thing is like
measure the room itself first to kind of get an especially if you're doing something like a big ballroom. I did a
lot of large commercial stuff, so big areas, big rooms. If you got a big ballroom, you might want to start three
quarter pattern or have your start at, you know, half pattern or less than a,
you know, somewhere within the pattern to make it to fall where you can cut that and only maybe cut off four inches
off of your next drop so that when you come back down, your pattern is is back
on for your next drop. Um, I may have really made that complicated sound. I
uh, you know what? It all makes sense as I listen to myself. Look. So, so here here's what I did.
Look, I just drew this little little example, right? I just drew drew this little example up.
Same pattern count. One pattern with six tiles is going to be longer than the other. And obviously the measurement is
going to be different. That's extreme, but it gives you a visual. Yeah.
Yeah. So when when you guys are getting into um you know mastering the art is
how this this topic starts but it starts really as you've said a couple of times
Dave simple but then you corrected yourself said it's not really too simple but it's simple to you because you're a
master two dude. Um, but mastering the art of pattern matching does start with
the the most simple of aspects, which is identifying it and then what do you have
to do to get that pattern on if you have bow and skew in a pattern match. So
maybe we can move into some of that stuff and and what is recommended from mills and others if you have some some
of those issues. I've seen dra I just want to tell a horror story. I seen a
terrible situation on a on a it wasn't a huge pattern match but a smaller I I
think it was probably uh was not our job but uh probably a one footish by one
foot something like that. It was a organic kind of pattern, but it was clear that the installer row cut and
then just there was a bow or something in it and they just over overlapped and
trace cuted the next piece and that pattern goes from full pattern to small
pattern back to bigger pattern. So that's not the right way to fix it,
is it? Oh no. I'm glad you're that's how it came.
Was Was the customer happy? Well, I don't know if they got paid. They were still down. So, I mean,
somebody left it. That's uh you know, it's it's it's it's
interesting what we do see in in the field. And it's uh mind you, most of the
installers that we deal with really want to do a good job. All right. They they
want nobody's ever really shown them how to do that correctly. what the simple nuances are of of lining that up. And I
think one of the most misunderstood and misspoken phrases in our industry is what a mill tolerance is. And you know,
I've had I've had people working with me. I've had family members tell tell customers that a mill
tolerance uh that a mill tolerance meant that's what you could leave. Not not my
little brother, if you're listening, Doug. I know I invited you. other family members that uh but that you know it's
it's a it's almost embarrassing, right? You sit there and you look at a you look at a job and and residentially speaking,
you walk down a hallway, you're going to automatically your your subconscious is going to follow the pattern. So, if that
pattern is bowed or skewed off into into the wall, you better not put any
pictures on those walls because you're subconsciously going to
knock them off. It's it's it's like you're always walking down the hallway drunk. Well, and it's the same in commercial.
And I just want to say like at least in residential, you have some tack striping things that you can pull that stuff out.
When you have that with commercial, you better have a good adhesive. I mean, you got to have it's all about the proper
adhesive and you got to have the right amount of adhesive. Aside of making sure you have all the
technical stuff and speaking of adhesives, I'd like to bring up today's sponsor of the huddle, which is
Divergent Adhesives. If you need a great adhesive for any of your flooring needs, go to divergentadhesive.com.
Check them out. Sunny over there does a great job. And uh Divergent is a
well-known brand in our industry. Uh if you see the diver gent there, you know
Sunny is uh is is the mascot for for that. So um make sure that you're using
high quality adhesives, high tac, high grab things like that when you are having to uh fix these pattern matches.
So yeah, in commercial when we're doing it like we try to pre-stretch a lot of this
stuff out. And I see Puit on here. He's done a ton of my assisted living over
the years. He's he's commenting and saying pattern sequences versus roll sequencing. Uh talking about something
we were talking about earlier. Um can you Yeah.
So, can you see they told me future bedroom? They told me that this is a 112 foot
that's 112 foot uh entryway to a hotel.
They said it had a white line in the carpet. They never they never cut the salvage
off. They never pattern. They didn't realize and they glued it like that.
Oh, the tech the tech that I called which was Bruce Dent on his job. He said, "I
bet they got paid too, didn't they?" Yeah, that talking about that earlier on
the P you asked Dave did was the customer happy. I have no idea because it wasn't our job. But I can tell you what drives me nuts is I'm like I could
have never gotten away with something like that. Like it seems like if I if I have a plug up against a a wall in a
corner that's somebody finds it. It gets found. Yeah. Like how does he how does this stuff get
gotten away with? But anyway, that's just a I don't mean to laugh at that, but man. Oh, you're right.
Peace. They they leave that there so it's obvious that it's got to come off. But I guess
Well, not obvious enough, obviously. So Dwayne says they want Dwayne over there,
Jerry. And then over on Instagram, the the floor god did uh say we are CFI. So just
wanted to let everyone know that Mario is is supporting over here. Awesome.
So one of the the um and I know we're bouncing back and forth between
commercial and residential. So if you don't do both, we're trying to cover a big demographic of installation here.
And there's different methods. And this gets really deep, but I did want to ask uh Dave,
on your pattern match on the one and two day course, does that cover commercial
and residential or do they need to do the commercial two uh certification more
or is there? No, no, that's just that's just a class that's tailored that's it's
more tailored to commercial, but can be easily and readily adaptable
to residential. Well, you still use stay nails and stuff. We just I mean, I've you know, on
my double stick stuff that I've done over the years, I mean, I'll put tack strip on a commercial job to be able to
stretch and hold and and do things on a double stick glue down. I mean, I'll put
tack strip right up against the wall. Even if I go back and take it up because I have to for whatever reason, I'll I'll
put it down to help help my job out. Well, I liked using quarter inch pad and
and a quarter inch pad, you can get away with the tack strip around the walls. Uh Jerry Jerry will let you know not to
do that. And anything that's less than quarter inch pad because because it will
create a picture. Oh yeah, you got you got to take it out. But I've removed it. I've went around
with and just removed it and squirt glue and that last little thing. That's days
later after everything's good and set up. It's
quarter how much traffic is going in the area, guys. When he says quarter inch, I'm behind quarter inch all day long. Do
I like putting tack strip on double stick? Sure I do. But if we're doing a
U I'm trying to think two years ago we used double stick pad there at at services and one of the reasons Roy won
that tournament that time he's the one that realized that padding wasn't quarter inch all
them guys put tax strip down left it down know it's going to pitch frame but it's just little things you throw
out there I'm looking over here that Dwayne Puit asked about pattern sequencing against versus roll
sequences. We covered that about 30 minutes ago. Yeah, I think he was uh he was hearkening back to your uh it was even I
think it was your your comment Jerry. Yeah, that you were talking about that a lot of guys think that it's
patterns that sequencing is sequencing of the rolls which
in vinyl in vinyl it's a must for resilient. Yeah. But it's talking
about different worlds. So, guys, you take the classes going on next month. Uh,
it's covering carpet completely. I don't care if it's carpet, tile, broad loom, uh, uh, hospitality, residential, it's
there. Where's that class at? If you remember, uh, Scott Bohacker, I
had to think a minute. Scope Scott's facility. We're putting on one uh I think it's the
27th 28th next month. Uh Derek Scott.
And where is Scott at? Do you know Georgia? Calhoun, Georgia.
Calhoun, Georgia. We started working at before CFI got a
uh facility. You guys know me know I believe Burgundy. I'm CFI of the bone. Uh but
I'm going to say something about Scott. I know he's he's aligned itself with a particular uh man uh facility. I
train entity. Yes. The NT. But listen guys, his facility there is
state-of-the-art. He has to pay the bills no matter what. He he wants anybody and everybody come in there. I'm
I'm going plug for him right now. And reason we had talked about doing it there
opposed to the the building that CFI had at the time. There's no air condition, no heat in that building back there
where they're working. They run fans in summertime. You can't hear over yourself. I love them to death, but and
I I you guys know me, I bleed burgundy. I'm not I I promote them. I don't care
if I'm in Timbuktu, but there's times that
old man don't like to be on the job and uh get a great like wait a second and
the HBAC supposed to be on before we do uh Florida. Bottom line is beautiful.
Jerry, you get rot in all the wrong places. Sometimes you just gota you got to bring
the gold bond with you, Jerry. You just gota just gota douse it up. medicated
little medicated gold bond and you'll be fine, Jerry. No. So, yeah, it looks like it's um
August 18th and 19th over at uh Bowont Flooring. So, if anyone wants to look
that up, I'm pretty sure you can find it over uh Okay. on Bowmont Flooring's Facebook page.
No, it's the 2. It's 27th. Somebody told you wrong. It's 27th.
Is there another one? 28th of October. You're looking at the one that we did
not have. I lost this one is from I lost my father. Yeah, we we lost I lost my father and I
put that one off, guys. I just wasn't Sorry for your loss, brother. I wasn't up for that.
Well, that's appreciate that. But no, I got to wait. We we uh
so that we can put that on back shelf for a few days. Okay. Yeah. Sorry for your loss. And yeah, it they just haven't updated the
dates on here then. It's It's in October the 27th, 28th.
So, the point being, guys, if you if you want to learn a lot of this stuff,
like Jerry just said, they're going to be teaching uh all things carpet and I assume pattern matching is going to be
in there as well. Yes. Yes. And then I think Scott brought it up to
you guys who all g You got Paul Carroll from Shaw. You got Bruce Gentry from
Mohawk Group. You got Dave Carter from Milikin. You've got Anthony Faulner from
U Mannington. You got Kenny Miles from Newerson
covering Woven. Man, I miss some people. Uh you got Shane Shane Jenkins.
Uh J Yep. From Sherock. Guys
from Tarquette. You got Slaughter from Tquette. Yes. Yes.
You got LeBron there's gonna be covering Michael Sheeran. Uh Henry Carr and Billy Simmons October.
It's going to be awesome. It's a two-day class. It's awesome. Uh but guys, we we
we put this on. We we brought it before at CFI three years ago, I believe it's
and we've had one time that we've been asked to come out and we did it for the union in Henderson
over two two years ago. Uh but any workshop whatever that's going
on that's that needs trust me uh get in touch with
John and I I started say I'm looking at Dave. Give a give a CFI. You can go to the
website and probably find the training on there. I would assume it's on the the website. And
yeah, they still haven't changed the dates yet either, but um sounds like it's a lot of learning and
uh it does require five years of flooring inspection experience.
Well, on that class, that's an inspection class. You take the one we did for union that restrictor for union.
We we dedicated we we're like a 10 speed bike guys. You put me in gear. We we can make it
the one that's coming up is open for all. Right.
We've got we got everybody there. It's going to be inspector. It's it's for carpet. Now you can be uh there's some
people's coming there for claims and some tech people come there. They just want to get a certificate of training on
commercial carpet. So you you get a a certificate of training. You got people's going to be in workshops is
there. Yeah. It was designated originally for inspectors. It was designated for inspectors, but we
realized right quick that a lot of people wanted that knowledge where there was an inspector. Well, I I I've been a big proponent as
well as the the the preferred flooring. Both gentlemen on this podcast. We've
talked many of times that how how beneficial inspection courses can be for installers, too. If you do a lot of
floors and you install a lot of floors, understanding how inspectors look at stuff is not a bad thing to know.
No. Deconstruct the whole project, then you end up knowing what to look for, right? If you know what to look for, you
know what to prevent. Yeah. You know what to prevent. I'm gonna be truthful. We I'm talking
about inspectors. I'm not. The reason that we're doing that for is a lot of them do. You got some good ones out
there and you've got some that just whoever's paying them. I'm just being truthful with you. Uh
yeah, I remember Kenny Miles and I been on job site and that inspector pulled up. He looked
at us. We we was CFI badged out was we was looking like we was somebody and he
said he walked around there. I guarantee was 30 minutes. What am I supposed to be looking for? I kid you not. We just
looked at each other. You mean right before you too? I mean, that's the way it was.
But guys, we're trying. The knowledge is out there. There people like Ro I'm
looking up there at Rale. Uh he and I about the same age. They're not We got a lot of old times out there that we won't
be around much longer and we need to be uh I get the knowledge out while we can.
I I'm serious. You can reach out to all Dave, myself,
uh, CFI, it don't matter. We at CFI
have been knowledge sharing. That's what we do. Now, I don't tell you everything
I know. But now, if you ask me a question, I'm going to do my best to give you a correct answer. If not, I put
you in touch with somebody that can. Um, but feel free to holler, Dave, me. Um,
I'm trying. We got so many guys out there from Rod Bon Bush to to uh Don
Stika. I mean, we got guys that you reach. What's the beautiful part about I I remember crew that we we did in in uh
we had certified them in Maryland area and they called on a Sunday night about
2 o'clock at that time. Uh Lord, I can't think his name is dead now.
God damn it. Anyway, they run out of glue and they had to be finished at 7 o'clock,
man. Somebody help me this day. Who? I I don't know, but I've been there.
Anyway, he went to the warehouse, picked I called him. They called me. I called
him. He went to his warehouse there at Fishman Floring and took a van, met them halfway and
said, "Call me on a credit card Monday and turn around and went back." The guy said, "Are you worried about SP?" Said,
"Jerry Miller called, told me to be here. I'm here." We have worked with each other. It's just not just
knowledge, it's sharing. And that guys, that's what you guys are doing. I'm so proud of you. what Dave and John
and and I really love the way that CFI like, you know, they bring the salespeople in too to give them the knowledge so that way they know
what we go through as installers. It's not just, you know, installing floors. There's science behind things, you know,
it takes skill, it takes technique, and they they really bring those people in to and and give them that class that
shows them, you know, exactly what we go through on a daily basis. I've been a big proponent of that, too,
Daniel. I think the the biggest thing is is creating a team, right? You need to
feel you really the installers that work for for Main Street store, wherever. Um
we we always complained about having to go in the back door, right? And but the thing is if if we if we as installers
are able to create a team a team with the salespeople where the salespeople
understand what we what we see on job sites then it's much easier for them to sell our service and that uh and then
therefore they can get away from selling a price. they can sell a service which is what we are uh which is what and it
takes it takes a firm knowledge and understanding of what we do when we're on our hands and knees and the fact
remains we we work for them right as much as they work for us and together we
make the customer uh we make the customer we leave the home
the customer well that's why it's so important that
like you said Dave that there's There's a magazine.
Yeah, you cut out there for a second, but really good at filling filling that blank space. He's right in there.
That is uh he's good at reading glitches. So, I was starting to say that
we've talked plenty of times about having good cohesiveness between salespeople and the installation team.
Often in retail, that is one of the main complaints from the installation
community is that they're selling things that they cannot possibly
uh accomplish. Um whether it be uh due to floor prep and all these things. Uh
and we have an entire podcast about just that. But the point is is that retailers
should take pride in who they have installing. Have a way to show the community that they're selling to that
they have a great installation uh team or teams working for them and sell that
service. Leverage I did a talk at Ty a couple years back about leveraging your your
installation teams as a sales point. Quit selling. We all sell the same stuff. That stuff right behind me is the
same stuff my competitor down the street has. Yeah. It's not got anything to do with that.
It's got to do with this up here with me and my crews and my my my installation leaders and that stuff is
what makes it a better experience for the end user. Whether that's a a
doctor's office or a home, it doesn't matter. You're sell there. most people
are selling very similar products or the same exact product. It's about how well it's installed that adds the value. And
I I love that saying that I think I can't remember who said it, but I heard at a CFI meeting once was um you know
that that flooring doesn't have it's all like has zero value until it's
installed. It's just a piece of another fabric and it has zero value until it's
installed properly. And so that's why CFI exists. That's why all the training
entities exist is to share knowledge. CFI is the leader and the has for years
and years been around to teach these courses and you guys have uh uh blessed
us today with sharing some of your knowledge. Um we got started a little late. So are you
guys okay running a few minutes be uh past four here? I'm okay. Okay.
Yeah. And I just wanted to to you know just touch on some stuff too is because
the way that Jerry was saying it's your network right you know these people and then you can call on them ask them
questions. Yes. And and you know get some answers or in some cases some adhesive on a weekend
when everyone is closed and the best way to do stuff like that is networking. Right. And Dave you guys have the event
next week. You want to touch on that?
Oh, he's frozen again. You talking about our convention? Talking about the convention.
Convention. That's That's next week. Absolutely. Hey guys, that's where we teach
that's where an installer installers that are like-minded.
We learn from each other. Not only the likes of Jerry Miller, Miller at CFI,
right? and and he's and I I can honestly say he's one of my mentors that uh it
mind you mind you it takes it takes somebody
stepping out of their box out of their comfort zone because we we
unless you make yourself get well known get got an outgoing personality but uh
say guys we we get to that's that's where I met you guys right
It's all through CFI and and making those contacts guys lifelong but I know
if I have a resilient question I can call Don Stika
I could call Joe right these guys
these guys I feel like I got to fill in and I
I hate doing Essentially, he's he's being very uh open and and
clear that getting to convention or getting to these uh different um events
have immense networking power where if you need help on a project, you can
reach out to somebody. You're going to learn you're gonna you're going to He's still
Yeah, I know he is. You're going to meet some people there. Uh Dave was just saying that's where he met us. Well,
that's also I met uh Jose and Daniel at so it was a one of those it was an event
that we we met and I met Jerry at CFI. Um so yeah, getting together and sharing
knowledge and then sharing contacts. Both of those things can be greatly
beneficial to you getting a job done. So that was Pat fellow that that transition
got that Dave's still trying to talk, isn't he? He wasn't done yet. He's got to get those thoughts out.
He's got to get them out. It don't matter at any cost. Just get them out.
We'll have him rejoin. What was you saying, Jerry? I said that was Pat Fails that brought
that adhesive them boys that night. Yeah, that's what gone. He was a TFI
hero. There you go. Yeah, there's been a few of those. And if I bet if everybody was to comment on
a time of that, I remember plenty of times going picking up stuff on the weekend. Now, we do all flooring, so we
do tile and stuff. D Tile, our local Dile rocks it that way. I've called that
manager multiple times and they're like, "I know you ain't open Saturday, but I need 40 bags or a 100 bags of
self-leveler. I don't care if you just go stick it outside your shop. I'll come pick it up." He's like, "No, I'll wait
for you and and forklift it into your truck, you know, and he my guys will go get it." No, I mean those relationships,
building a network, like Daniel was saying, is is a lot of what we're talking about. Building this community,
the huddle community, we share our emails. Uh I've had Facebook messages
and phone calls. I know Daniel and Jose both have as well. It's all about building a community together where we
can rely on each other for knowledge when we fall short. That does not take away the need to get formalized training
and get that done. And then you still have, trust me, there's always someone better than you that you can lean on to
get some knowledge. I was talking to Daniel uh just last week uh early last week or maybe it was the week before
about a difficult situation I have going with some freaking sheet vinyl. Not even
sheet vinyl, it's freaking biiobased free. Not Yeah, non PVC. nonPVC is the uh
proper way to say it. Um, eye doctor appointment, guys, so I had my glasses on. Sorry, I looked like a stunner the whole time, but
he's a patcher. He looks cool. You got an Is that an eyeball on there?
Can't even tell. So, anyway, uh we have come to the end of the podcast. I want to thank our
guests Jerry and Dave for joining us today talking through some of the you know we'll call it simple but it's the
very beginning parts of becoming a master. If you want to compete on uh you
know show your skill and compete at the highest level make sure to scan the QR code on your screen right now and join
the installer of the year competition. This year it's closed obviously it's just around the well I don't know that I
I misspoke there. It's not closed. There's plenty of other competi regionals and stuff going on.
There's Denver on um October 11th and then Dalton on October 25th. And I'm on
the registration page right now. And it is it's still there. So I'm
pretty sure you can you can enter. You got to put your money where your your mouth is something.
Go ahead. I I can
hear me. I wish you better, my friend. You got something good. I'm gonna hide
I'm gonna hide the camera and keep the audio. See if that works. There you go, Dave. There we bandwidth for you.
Go ahead, Dave. Talk. There you go. Hear me. There you go. I We can hear you.
All right. So you have if you have um we we have
installers out there who have fantastic absolutely fantastic skill set, right?
And if they really want to show it off when they get in that regional, go to Dalton, get in front of those
manufacturers, the the foot traffic we get there from from the manufacturers
last year was was astounding. It was people that were
walking through there from the manufacturers. You want a pair? Oh, there you got we got um was it Dan
Churchill signed up and um Jimmy Salisbury signed up there
so far and we got some other guys.
These are really highly rated guys.
Yeah, there's a lot of really good guys down there. I think Dave saying get down to Dalton and show off and get
get going. Uh uh if you win one of those uh there are some qualifying things you
can qualify for the installer of the year at Ty. So, uh yeah, scan the QR
code and uh yeah, go show off your stuff. For those of you just kind of getting started, like find a good
mentor. uh get involved with CFI, get involved with one of the training
entities. We are training agnostic on the huddle. So, I don't care where you
go. I'd rather you get trained than not trained at all. I don't care uh what
anyone says, proper training is necessary to be really successful in
this industry. And so, and plus it shows that you're a professional. So, let's do
that. I want to thank all of our uh guests today and all the comments. I'm sorry if we didn't get to all of your
comments, but uh we were rolling with some pattern match mastery over here. Um
I want to thank Divergent Adhesive for sponsoring today's show. Remember, hey, you got to have a good adhesive when
you're trying to pattern match, baby. You got to go check out Divergent Adhesives. Uh show them some love.
They're a great sponsor. Sunny's a great guy and I really appreciate their uh sponsoring the huddle and getting the
word out there. Jerry and Dave, thank you so much. Dave, sorry that your connection was having so much issue. I I
I felt the passion through the but I I um I hope that you uh next time
we can firm up the old connection and we'll we'll have another great show. Thanks everybody. Give us a like and
subscribe on our socials, on our YouTubes. Uh check us out and come see us at convention. Jose and I'll be
there. We're going to be shooting a live episode of The Huddle with a live audience at convention. So, come see us.
Bring me a custom eye patch. Heck yeah. Get him a custom one. And
it's at 5:00 pm instead of three. So, next week's uh central.
Yes. Next week's episode will be at 5:00 p. p.m. Central, not 3:00 p.m. Central.
Uh which is what 4 um 4 Eastern. So, it' be 6. You guys are all be off work at
that time. So join us. Uh we'll have live audience and we're gonna we got a great show planned for you guys. So
thank you everybody and we will catch you guys next week.
