The Huddle - Episode 160 - Can You Afford a Rebrand? When and How to Refresh Your Image

In this episode of The Huddle, the crew tackles the topic of rebranding: when to do it, how much it really costs, and the smartest way to refresh your image without losing your identity. Whether you're an independent installer or running a growing company, this one’s for you.

We talk: Signs it's time to rebrand How to avoid common branding pitfalls Budgeting for a rebrand Getting team and customer buy-in DIY vs hiring a pro 🎧 Tune in and get the clarity you need before making your next big branding move.

Why This Episode Matters:

It reminds you that your brand is more than a logo—it's your reputation. If you're not building it with intention, you're getting left behind.

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Please visit our new website! https://thehuddle.team

What is up? That that's new to me right there. What is up, guys? Welcome back to

another episode of The Huddle, your weekly playbook, helping you gain forward progress in your career. Simply,

simply put, we're here to help you win. All right, that was uh exhilarating to

kind of hit the buttons on the back end of this show. I had no idea what to click, but we got through it. And Daniel

is mobile. Ashlin is off today. And we got a a staple of the huddle in espanol.

Or hey, what's up, buddy? What's going on, my peeps?

You know, doing that doing that thing. Just keep on selling floors and trying

to keep the wheels on the bus. Daniel's out picking stuff up from

supply houses. Jose's over here texting his sharing on the socials.

Oh, all right. Well, what's going on today,

fellas? Anything? Uh, I'm gonna make sure what's going on real quick.

Okay. here. Um,

nothing much going on, brother, besides being busy and trying to trying to make and find that time that's been elusive

uh this summer. Yeah, it's been pretty crazy. I do want to let everybody know that uh today's

episode is sponsored by Divergent Adhesives.

Divergent Sunny over there is awesome supporter of the show. uh has great

product line. We'll have a more uh substantial full um um information on

divergent adhesives for you in the uh the next episode. But wanted to mention

them, thank them for sponsoring this episode and uh continue being, you know,

just advocates of the industry both uh through the NFCT as well as the uh the

Divergent brand. So if you guys haven't seen his logo, it's a gentleman diver.

Diverent Senor Divergent. Yeah, it's it's pretty

cool. They have one handy, you know, when you got the diver gent.

I would like to see him in a uh Simpsons kind of

cartoonish one also, just to see what he looks like. I just want him to come just like that.

Like Scoop Steve. I mean, I I told him, "Where's your Yeah, Scoop Steve.

Have you seen uh Big Daddy? Good guy, though. Oh, yeah. Yes. Super Steve.

Yeah. All right. Yeah. He needs to carry that outfit like in a briefcase with him at all times. I know, right? Quick quick change

in that same briefcase that's on the sticker. That would be epic. Yeah. All right. Well, welcome everybody.

Thank everyone. We are trying to get all of uh

the technology up and running. I think we are pretty close.

And uh so

I think we're live on all the streams. If not using my tablet for the first time, so I

don't know like how to navigate it without messing something up.

Well, today's episode um

today's topic is can you afford a rebrand? When and how to refresh your image. I'm going to switch that up. It's

already on all the written stuff, but can you afford a rebrand is like maybe not the right way we should have put

that. It's like is it time for a rebrand and how to know when it's time uh to

refresh your image? because frankly if you are in dire need of a rebrand

um you know money is about the third thing you should consider second or third not the very first because um I've

done this I've rebranded both my flooring company and we are in the

middle of a rebrand with go Carrera uh into Trade Tap and that's that's

launching soon and so I've got some you know intimate uh

experience with this with this uh particular uh topic. Although I am no

rebranding professional. I will tell you that now. Uh I try my best and would

love to you know anybody on the uh podcast here that's been through it and

feels like they've been successful on a rebrand um you know chime in. So,

you know, like um for some of the listeners, uh what is a rebrand, right? Like maybe some people don't understand

what that might be or why anyone would ever think about doing it anyway.

Um we went through it. That's a great Let me let me just I'm

going to interrupt you on accident, but on purpose. You got to have a brand to rebrand. So th this also could be is it

time to launch a brand? Realize that as an installer, you are a brand. We went

through this pretty deep last week that if you are a installer out there,

you are a brand. You you are your brand. Your attitude, your your um your uh

quality, your vehicle, the way you carry yourself, everything is your brand. So,

it may be time to actually launch a brand. Uh, which we could talk about. And I'm so glad you said that, Jose,

because that might kick us off on a better foot. So, you know, yeah, launching a brand and or like you said,

uh, I'll leave it back to you to explain what a rebrand is just to get us all on the same page.

Well, I'm I'm barely going through that, so I'm going to start branding. Sorry. How about you start, bro? Go.

So, I'm going to start branding myself. Yeah. But, uh, no, no, that's the only

thing I was going to say. I'm I'm gonna start branding myself out. So, I'm I'm starting in that boat now, you know,

trying to catch up with everybody else. So, yeah, it's going to be good to hear what Jose has to say about about what he

was going to say right now about branding. Rebranding. What is rebranding? I'm going to take a a page out of Paul's book and say, "Hey, I'm not a

professional. I'm not going to pretend to be. I'm going to say and do some some things that aren't uh necessarily

correct in everyone's eyes." But um you know we when we started uh preferred

flooring um I think we accidentally created

what is going to be our brand but we wanted we wanted an identifier right we wanted something that was going to

separate us from the other installation outfits at the time um that was noticeably

different. So when we created preferred flooring, you know, the name was because

people preferred to have Daniel Daniel and I on the project. Um, and then, you

know, with a little bit of help from my cousin who was uh really big into graphic art back then, um, he helped us

manipulate a font, got our preferred flooring logo started with Saturn in the

background, and that was the beginning of it. Um, not saying the picture and

the graphics were our brand, right? But because the brand doesn't mean anything unless you put something behind it and

vice versa. Uh, and we just wanted to be recognizable. Um, I chose colors that

were not overbearing, but soft enough to be attractive to most.

I mean, there was a lot of intent behind it. when you did your when you started

uh doing your brand, you you did you do the uh research and R&D on colors and

font sizes and all that? Um I did not. However, I did um

I played a lot of softball, right? I played um and I did a lot of designs for

jerseys and uniforms and um listening to

people speak about certain colors that were power colors that were overbearing and what some colors meant. Um, and when

we went with the royal blue and the white, it was because, you know, it it

wasn't overbearing on the eyes. It wasn't saying I must be the boss. You know, it was it was assertive yet soft

enough to appeal to everyone. And as far as what the colors meant and all that,

no way, dude. I didn't I didn't even know any of that like any of that knowledge. Yeah. I had no

idea. A lot of it was looking at some of the popular brands that were out there that might have been

around for a long time. Like what what was their color scheme? What made them

stick around a long time? And at the time I didn't know about branding, but why has their logo and everything been

able to to to remain the same and them still continue to grow, right? I was

just looking at at stuff like that. I didn't want sharp corners on the letters. I didn't like I had a vision,

but that was about it. Um yeah. So there's there's a lot of um

like thought that your a brand is a logo and

you touched on this earlier Jose your brand is you it is your company it is

your service your logo um now we developed

our first logo was just me scribbling and like I did it just hey what would

look cool? How would this look good? And can I intertwine the S and the A so that

it it made it seem like working together? That was about as much thought as went into it. Um, we went through a

rebrand. This is our newer mark as they call it in branding, uh, logo, uh, as

it's also known. But the colors and all of that stuff, we did a deep dive on

colors, font, what what all that is. But what was interesting is going through that really

it uh that it forced me the the the people we were working with wanted to

know about our company. What do we really stand for? What are our key

differentiators that you talked about? um how how do we perceive oursel in the

marketplace? How do we want to be perceived in the marketplace? All these questions and back and forth

conversation just to come up with that, which it's pretty awesome, but like

that all that your your logo is supposed to speak to your brand and not be your

brand. Uh now, I'm just giving you information that I learned by paying uh a fair amount of money to figure it out.

uh and someone else to do it for me. Um and we're going through that again uh

with Trade Tap and and um you know, Go Carrerero be Trade Tap here in the near future. Uh it really already is. It's

just we haven't uh gotten all of the assets in place to be able to, you know,

uh flip the switch. But you know, Doyle says here, before you develop your

brand, make sure your personal toolbox is uh is up to date like certifications. That's what I'm talking about. Like who

are you? What what are you? And uh Jorge, you said earlier you were like,

you know, trying to catch up. Dude, you're you're going to be anytime somebody really invests in their

personal brand the and their their business brand um

like you're you're you're one of the 5%.

A lot of people don't brand. They put a put a logo on their their hat and they

that's their brand. What you what you want is somebody to

look at your logo and feel a certain way about you, associate that logo to you and feel a certain way. You know, so

many of us do what I did. I I mean I I did it twice actually.

I just created put some stuff on paper. My very first company was Steuart and

Goolan Contract Flooring. Me and a guy named Steve Golland started it and we

just put some stuff together. I mean it was uh black and gray were our colors. I

mean like if I wanted to 1930s cartoon I was good.

uh black and and gray or black and kind of a a a really light gray anyway. Um

but you want your logo to make somebody feel and perceive you in a certain way.

And so I thought it was interesting when I went through the process of actually doing it that the company and the

professional wanted to know like what are you like who are you? Who is your

company? What is your company's DNA? And that could be a company of one or a

company of 1 million. It's still the same question and answer. Who are you

and what do you stand for? And then let then they will design uh some options if

they're good. designed some options to give you um you know some some different

uh uh images as well as font and color. all of

it matters and um and uh you know you end up with a few things and uh then you

want they want you to ask how does this make you feel as Jorge for example if

you got three or four or five different options how does it make you feel when you look at them

and um yeah so anyway that's my experience going through it and I'm just

sharing with you what I've going through this twice now what I've been uh taught and trying to get thick

skull. But well, I want to add to that. You know, you made me realize that I didn't I didn't think about the practice I had in

branding prior to preferred flooring, but um you know, the the first go at at

flooring uh business really was just um a partnership with a friend of mine

and we called it under your feet installation.

like it didn't last very it didn't last very long, right? Um there was some uh

that's when we found out, you know, he had child support and they can kind of just take whatever they want out of your bank account, right? And then the next

one um um after I left home, I tried to start a J and M flooring was the name of

it, right? And uh because I I tried to incorporate my mother to qualify for for

grants. So, you know, Jose and and and Maria J&M

Flooring, that only lasted a little bit before I we want work back for other companies. But I guess I did have a

little bit of practice. Um, and obviously that practice uh kind of

helped. And it's it's pretty it's pretty um like it's fairly common that that

approach, you know, take your initials or use like Steuart and Associates. If I

had a to-do over, I probably would put more of an ambiguous

uh name that has some meaning behind it. you know, that's not my name, but it's

we're 20 plus years into the the gig and it the the the name is a brand now, but

it took a long time for for that to happen in my my area, my industry. Um,

in the commercial side. So, um, a lot of people shorten and just call it Stewart, you know, or they'll

shorten and say SNA. Um, but at the end of the day, it's it is a brand now. But

man, that took some time. So, you know, like having if you look at some of the

um Acme brick or you know these types of things or shag tools, it's not

somebody's name. So, I'm not saying that's wrong. Uh there's plenty of of

examples. Um in fact, I was going to call it Paul Stewart,

but there's actually a really high-end clothing line called Paul Stewart. and so couldn't get that.com and and uh so

there's some really like great examples in particularly in fashion where they

use their name or in the uh manufacturing but in the service industry

um just consider whether or not your name is the best thing to use is my only

advice. I'm not saying it is or it is not. I'm just saying consider other

options and think about it a little bit. Put a little bit of thought in to whether or not you should do that. You

can also do something really clever like Dave Garden and he start his company's

name was Carpet Garden. That's pretty freaking that's not bad at all there

Dave. And that was in 98. So I thought that's I just read that in

the comments. Sound pretty cool. Carpet garden. That's like taking it like he's a florist, isn't he? Like in

it like he could be a florist. Kind of like how Nate does his florist thing. But yeah.

Hey, I ain't going to lie. I've been using chat GPT for a lot of my stuff, man. And it's just I want this on it. I want

this. And I'll put pictures down and I want this. And it's just doing exactly what I want. And I've got some where I'm

like, okay, no, that's good. and this as far as logos and then other ones I'm like, "Oh, I don't like that one, but I

like this idea on it." Trying to incorporate it. I don't know. It's It's maybe a quick a quick thing to do that I

would I would just give some uh some um

uh guidance on is everybody at least on this podcast knows

go career. What do we do? We connect blue collar trade in with the people who need the work done right

in some manner. Well, there's this this this type of service happens in um the

the white collar kind of stuff too. So, if you've never used Fiverr,

uh fiv or Upwork, either one, uh you can find people who will design logos for you. I

would use them more in like uh if if you

have a professional that you already work with, you know, that's probably a

good place to start like a local uh company or something. But bal paying

somebody 50 bucks or a hundred bucks to look at your logos, tell them a bit about yourself, and then have them give

you feedback, a third-party professional. Um I we did that. I think

it's a great thing to do. They do it every day. They're they're they're going to understand like as long as you can

find the right terminology and the lingo lines up, they'll understand what you're looking for. And I'm only suggesting that because of

the rise of AI. The problem with that and is not that you're using AI. I use

Chad GBT like a lot. Uh I use it in a very specific way.

Yeah. This is not really Paul Stewart. This is my AI bot. Um, no. He wouldn't

mess up as much as I do. Uh, no. The the the problem though is

you can get like even um writing or

getting uh content for different things. I I can identify

whether or not it's AI generated. Now they have these AI generated uh AI um

analytics to tell you how much of an article was written in AI or whatever.

The AI does things in a very specific manner. It's not near as smart or

creative, I should say. It's way smarter than us, but not it doesn't have the creativity we have. It only grabs other

things and then puts it together. So, if you take that and then get somebody on Fiverr or something like that, I would

um in today's world ask for a nonI uh opinion, like you don't want somebody

else using AI because you're using AI. But if you kind of first get the the

train rolling and you get a few options, then getting somebody else to like tweak it or just put little human touches into

it. Um because your brand is for other humans, right? It's not for another AI.

And uh this is how we kind of uh look at things when we're doing uh whether it's

a mark for a new shirt or a hat or a logo or whatever. So

um can you give me my water? It's in the the back room.

Bam. Oh, that would have been sweet if you just grab if he got his water right when I handed

that. That would have been We're gonna do that. We're gonna do that on an episode. That takes more coordination.

Yeah. So, so yeah, I'm so just a little bit of like

uh stuff that I've been through and went through that you might look at. Again, it's fiverr.com and Upwork. Both of

those can help you out if you want to. Someone creative. Um I'm not gonna lie,

man. I'm a little old school, right? Like all my logos, all the art we put on the vans, like every shirt that I've

designed, I I drew out in hand, brother. Like I can't see. That does not surprise me one bit.

When I came to your office at one time and you were on on the um computer like just put, hey,

you like this background or that background? Yeah, you're a creative guy. I'm not. I don't know how everything

used to tag everywhere. The S. I don't know how to use technology like that. Yeah, the the money s

um the I'm not the best with it, but I know how to do it and manipulate it just enough to

to for someone to understand my vision. But then like the the gentleman that I that I work with who does like all of

our garments and all that, he's got the the right programs to to finish the

vision. So, and um he's recently rebranded, as a matter of fact, from uh

CSN to Notorious Brand. So, he just recently went over went through a

rebranding now that I'm thinking about it, we're talking about it, that I know that was a big deal for him and and he

did it and I don't know where he sits, but I know a lot of clients followed

him, right? It doesn't matter if you're rebranding, they're they're rebranding with you. They're just It's just the name.

It's just the name of the business. It's not who you are. That's what we talked about earlier. It's

I follow him because of him. I don't care what he names his company. I follow him because of him.

Yeah. And um I mean, take what I'm saying just from a a a pure I've been

through it a few times, but go through it yourself. I think what I'd like to make sure is that when you do this,

especially if this is your first time, uh I would suggest going through it with

a little bit of uh intention as opposed to the way I went about it. I honestly

when I first I was like, "Yeah, that looks good. Make it gray and black."

That was it, you know. And then the next time uh when I bought my partner out in 03 and started Stewart Associates, I did

just a version of the first one. I was like, "Okay, it was SNG. Let's make it SNA and stick them together where

they're close, where they're intertwined. That'll make everybody say we work together." I don't know if

that's true or not. I just came up with that, you know, and then I drew I drew it up and had a person actually draw it

for for like the logos and and the shirts and stuff. We lost Daniel. Yeah, he he was inside for a while

anyway. He may have to rejoin. Yeah, but I I I just scratched it off. So, I

got to give you kudos for just kind of going through a more intent

uh process than just the way I did it. Dude, you're So yeah, if you ask me to draw it, I mean,

I I'm horrible at drawing stuff. It'll be like stick figures. So, have you ever seen a dog in a stick figure form?

That's probably the way I draw it. Like a little stick figure dog. So, for me, it's more creative than I

am. Yeah. You got to do it like they do that on the the tutorials where they say, you got to hire

rectangle. Yeah, there's some creative people out there, man. Yep. Um, you know, when when COVID hit

and we went through our first official rebrand as Preferred Flooring, we did a

lot. We got new vans. We put vinyl on them, did a design. Um,

we redid a lot of I would say external items, right? The visuals. We wanted

we wanted to make sure that that we were rebranding in a manner that would attract the clients that we wanted,

right? Like now that we kind of, you know, 10 years into it, we kind of knew where we wanted to go, what direction we

were going. And do you feel like you did that? like do you feel like you're hitting it

uh pretty well from that aspect or do does I love the like obviously

the name I think I remember you saying that the name came from people just

saying you're our preferred guys and you like well that's our name preferred flooring so the name is like

perfect uh the your mark and your other stuff like that how do you feel like

that is a cohesive You said brand at this point after the time frame you just stated.

Um me because it's going to be a little biased, right? Because it's me, of course. Uh

sure. Yeah, we're all biased. I think my logo rocks, dude. Yeah. I think um I think the timing was

perfect for for the rebranding. I think that the the new visuals that that we offered as a company for everyone to to

recognize was was perfect. It was it came at a time when things were pretty

looking not looking pretty good for the economy. But then um we we represented

small companies in our area and said, you know what, we're not going to let this keep us down.

Sometimes we we we took a risk and simplified, shortened it up. You know, instead of taking the putting full

preferred flooring on everything, we just shortened it to the PF PF. Yeah. Because everybody already recognized the

the preferred floor. They're going to do that anyway. you know, it seems like people just kind of natively do some of that stuff anyhow.

And we still have the like the full logo. We still keep the full logo on things, you know, like where it makes sense, but

trying to save real estate and um letter heads and all that where do you want to I think we we shortened it

because Daniel was getting sick of using all the ink. So, let let me um ask you guys start

with you, Jorge. And again, thanks for being on here today, dude. I uh I think

it's gonna give a really good example. You just said that you were starting to

brand yourself. What would what what kicked that off? Like why why have you decided that all

of a sudden? I say all of a sudden, it could have been in the works for a while for I mean, yeah, it has been in the works.

Yeah, it's just taking the time finally to just do do a little bit more work on it. Uh, and just separating yourself

from the rest. Um, and that's really where I'm at right now. Just trying to build a logo, a brand, separating myself

from the best for the from the rest. Sorry. Um, that way it's, you know, they

know who I am, not just by my name. It's more by the logo and all that, by the brand. So, so was it did did it um did

anybody ask you like for car when you have your card is it just say Jorge on

it like your name? It just says my name and I I kind of want

something I kind of want to do something yeah something different just something not associated with my name but just

with the brand itself. So, what um I guess I'm trying to dig

out of you a little bit for those installers that are out there wanting to

that maybe they've never even thought of this. It's just James Johnson and I

install flooring. Why should I Why should I do anything other than I'm the

guy that's going to be installing your flooring? You know me. I'm good. And that's that. What what made you go that

next step to actually put a put a brand on it? What um what what drove you to do that?

Basically, just what I'm doing now. I'm doing a lot of staircases. I'm doing a lot of surging and stuff like that. And

I wanted to have a name associated with that. So, I chose Escalon, which is

Escalon in Spanish, but in English it sounds like Escalon because that's the

way people are going to say it. So, I I like the name. Uh it's associate. It's associated with

my business. Sounds high. Yeah, it sounds high-end. But then when

in Spanish it means, oh, it means a step, you know, that's that's what it means. Esscalon or escalones means steps

or stairs. Um, so I I I did that to associate it with what I do. And the next thing was

just kind of building a logo for it. Uh, one thing that I one thing that gives me a lot of business is pets. Pets tend to

do a lot of they pee on the carpets or rugs. They'll chew a corner of a rug or

the staircase landing. So that gives me a lot of business. And I love dogs, too.

So most of the homes I go to, they have nice little dogs. So I put one thing that I love is my

dog. I put my dog on my brand, like my logo. Okay. And you know, then I put a rug

underneath him kind of like he's flying like Al kind of like Aladdin but not really, you know.

Um, but I started incorporating like a bunch of other stuff with the chat GPT stuff. So, I was like, you know what?

Can you do this? Can you do that? And it just started building it. It It did the name in the font that I wanted

perfectly. Um, the first few times, you know, it took me like two, three times. I wanted in this font and I wanted like this

black and so forth. And it just started building what I wanted. And I mean, I've

gone over 30 different types of logos and stuff to see what I

kind of like. And I've shown some people that I work with like, "Hey, what do you think of this?" And they're like, "Oh my

god, I like that dog." And I, you know, so they associate themselves with that. So, it's not really to please anybody

else. It's to please my clients. So, they or the people I'm going to get business from. Great point. That's a great point. And I

was going to say something, too, but I wanted to hear everything you had. the commercial and residential, right? Like

I think that commercial might not like contractors might not necessarily care what a logo

looks like for a flooring company. Uh but you know, it does it does attract

it's got to be attractive to someone and you want to attract the people you work with the most, right? That's more most

lucrative for for you. So that like I'm getting all these visuals of like this

this puppy on a rug just flying like when are you right? He's he's peeing on the rug. He's

peeing on the rug. When are you when are you launching? Found like that little dude that used to be in the stick. When are you launching

the stick? I'm sorry. What was that again, Paul? One more time.

You guys go. You know what you're talking about, right? Like the dude that that's peeing and like looking back. looking back at

you and they show them splashing on back in the day. That little that little sticker everybody would put. Oh man, we got to bring that back.

But except it's a dog. Yeah, we got to bring that back. Sounds like you might do it. No, go ahead. When you uh when you might launch that.

Um I wanted to launch this year, but I think uh everything's going through the

process right now. So by next year, early next year, Ty time, I should have

new business cards and all that ready with everything. How about you, uh, Jose? I wanted to,

uh, get your perspective from a guy that has a brand, like started with it. Like,

did have you went through a refresh ever, uh, in in your time frame? And if

you did or when you did, what what drove that? Since this is really about when to

brand and when to rebrand. What drove the what drove that? Um well, like I said, it was uh during

co I think I think we were we were just ready for

something different, right? like um you know our our mindset and and our business had went through another phase

and a little bit of growth internally and um

it just made sense for us to have to show that outward. We we have

experienced very fortunate to experience some success and when when we changed

our mindset we you know we felt like the refresh the rebrand should have should

follow suit as well. Um, it was a little bit behind us, but

when everything got shut down over here, we had nothing to do, right? Except for work work on uh what

we currently had, which was our our logos, our our brand, our our our guys

as far as uh education and learning. So, we just kind of worked on on the business as much as we could. And some

of that had to like was ready for a refresh. We we we were ready for a refresh. It's just like you sometimes

you got to move your living room around a little bit just to make it feel like a different place, right? Yeah. Um that that's that's you know the

office gets moved around, your desk gets moved around. Every time someone goes through a little bit of growth,

something gets changed, right? They might go from long hair to short hair. But like you said, a lot of these old

brands have the same mark uh or something similar for forever.

You're right. They do. And if if I I can't pretend I I understand why

I don't I I think they also refresh it a lot. They keep that same one, but they

have other versions of it or they have uh you know, they refresh it a little

bit with some more modern colors. I've seen some of that and they keep that same uh

And you know what? You're right. Now that you say it like that, now I'm thinking of it. They might have like the

same staple, right? like it's this like on paper everything's the same but they're so involved with so many other

things that they are able to do a little refresh uh for marketing when they're

working with nonprofits when they're working with uh you know like a kids

program they're able to do slight little refreshes to kind of fill that void

something as simple as a mission statement or something like that you know like just a something something

that's where a lot of people start that's kind of where a lot of people, in fact, a couple of branding like geniuses

that I went to their seminar, if you're starting a business, don't

even don't even think about a logo. Don't think about a name. Start with your mission statement and

core values or what they call mission, vision, and values. Get that out long before you start

drawing logos. We do logos as most people. We do this stuff because we think it's required. We're in a hurry uh

to get something done that is we can call our own is is um at least that's

what drove me. If anybody can relate to that feeling of like just wanting this to to say that's my company even though

it was just a company of two guys, you know, at the time when I first created the the the uh my first logo.

Um, it's because you want to own it's like that entrepreneurial like

bear inside of you wanted to own something. Um, but yeah, you want to conquer.

Yeah, you want to conquer. But I'll tell you, Andy Fcella, he owns First Form in

St. Louis and he it's a huge um it's a huge uh supplement company. They have

their energy drinks and, you know, all over in all these different uh convenience stores. But he's an upperend

um supplement company. It's called First Form. And the dude's a

beast. Like mentally, physically, the way he is uh kind of approaches life. I

I really like him. Well, I was in one of his business groups. In fact, I was in the first year of the business group him

and another guy Ed Milelet started called Arite. That's where I first started getting

like maybe some u higher level coaching on branding and all of that. And that's

where it comes from is like don't think about like you know start with

one of the things side note one of the things he's most passionate about is

culture at his company. So he he always thinks of he's like think about what

your company you want your company to be in five years. That's the vision part.

Where do you want what do you really believe you're going to do in five years? Get that out on paper. What's

your mission? What are you gonna do? What's going to separate you from the competition that you see in the

marketplace? And then your values is like what do you stand for? What are

your non-negotiables? Are you going to bend the rules on this that or the other or you just straight

shooter on these things? So once you get those done, now you have a brand

identity. Now you can put a mark to it. That's really the way that the uh the

really good guys do it. Um I followed a little bit of that um with Trade Tap. I

mean we came up with the name after we have been through a bunch of the other stuff. And um

yeah, so mission, vision, values. If you're getting ready to rebrand or do a

logo, know what your mission is. Know what your values are, your core values,

what separates you. Andy uh is is huge on core values and living by them. Um

we have them I don't know if you can see it up there. We have them all over our office and um

it's been a big difference maker like even culture-wise with your employees

having core values where it's like hey man you're not just trying to be Mr.

uptight. Look, core value number seven says we prepare. We we come prepared. We

we uh we know that preparedness is a precursor to execution.

And like the great executioners of old, if we miss our mark, bad things happen.

So what is that old that old saying is uh if if you don't

uh prepare for success, then prepare to fail. something like

that. Yeah. If you fail a plan, it's a plan to fail. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.

That's that saying. Yeah. So, it's that kind of stuff. We have like um one of

our biggest one is 1440 minutes matter. We say all the time around here, you got

1440 minutes. Yeah, dude. I love that. They every single one of them matter.

Make sure that you make them matter at your job so you're not here for more time than you need to be and you can get

home and spend it with those minutes that matter with your family and with the doing the things you love to do. So,

it's not always about like just work work work work. It's really about like

trying to have a set of values and a set of guidelines for you and your your people. And I wish I would have started

this when I was a one-man show and I lived by them because it would have been

a lot easier to get people to follow me with them than 15 years after I started

the company come out and say, "Guys, these are our core values." It took several times to get that right. So, um

I guess that's really the the uh idea behind branding though, isn't it? We

want we want people to know what they're getting with us. they want. We want them to have a certain way that they feel

about us when they see our name and our logo. So,

that's kind of how I've I've went about it. You know, you you said something too

about the you guys both did about the missions and mission statement and the core values. Um

I will say that we did we did do all that you know and and that is uh the the

branding starting within and you know like the brand is just not word appearance of what we're trying to create but you're right you you got to

start it within and then everything else will kind of fall into place. um you

know the name the logo doesn't mean anything if you don't

have some kind of emotional attachment to it and I think that that's where

where ours all comes from is I do have like shameless plugs and I'm one of those people where I don't really I go

in the middle of a crowd I don't really care what people think about me as long as you know I know that if I go into a

crowd of a thousand people and they don't know who preferred flooring is someone's gonna

someone gonna by the time I leave there and if one person remembers it then success, right? Yeah.

But there there was a lot of um a lot of the behind the scenes that went

into creating the brand and and the brand does start within within the

company with with me and Daniel or hey your brand starts with you brother. You know what I mean? And representation of

your brand is what your clients say about you. Like all of that ties in together. Um,

doesn't matter what it is, dude. You can have a dog on a rug. You can have, you know, a star in a pile of poop. It

doesn't matter what it is, right? The brand is Well, I I think it does matter. I mean,

at least a little bit that it it matters to you is where it matters. It's got to

matter to you. It means something, I guess. That represents you. the the one of the

cool things with what you're doing, Jorge, at um at this stage, if you do go

to grow your business, people know who they're coming to work for, you know what I mean? Uh it's harder to

get that across if you don't have a brand. And um that's one of the reasons,

you know, and like I said, Andy always recommended starting with some of those things, uh mission, vision, vision, and

values. And uh this stuff is because it it starts to tell the story of Jorge.

Speaking of brand, Daniel, what's up? He's back.

I made it. Sorry. Did you negotiate a better deal?

Uh it was I was just picking up, but they're just so busy that no one knows where anything is.

Ah, you're like, I'll be right back. And then then your phone just quit.

Well, dude, they they got stuff stacked in the aisles. They have to move pallets,

a whole aisle of pallets before they can get in anywhere. That is an example of acquisition and

then trying to create a brand out of everything, right? Like I know that they're still picking up pieces from

from the merger and Yeah.

Go ahead, Daniel. Yeah. And they actually if you guys talked about it already

because I wasn't here, but using someone else's brand because they built it up so much because that's what they did with

Blakeley when All Services bought them, right? And then now it's still Blakeley.

They can't you can't get rid of a brand sometimes, too. So, is it worth it sometimes to even rebrand?

Yeah. I mean that's a that's a open-ended question of like it's totally

up to them. I think a lot of these companies that go and buy other companies are buying it for the brand

that they created. And so you'll see like um well give you an example uh um

Diversify the flooring company that's like the largest. Not every one of their locations is called Diversify. They kept

all the most of them they kept the brand that they bought call it XYZ flooring

and then just the the only thing they added was just underneath the name they put a diversify company

right because there was so much e so much time that that person and that company had

built into their brand that to drop it and just say okay now we're diversify

that's what Shaw tried to do with Spectra and um that that was a

big problem when they did that. They went around buying flooring companies and completely switched the name out and

um you know it didn't So there's I think the the in my uh view there's a time

when you should rebrand. There's certainly times you should leave things alone.

Yep. Yeah. I mean, and not just we were we we

were talking about it um a couple weeks ago, too. Or was that last week when we were bringing up

we put that on everything when you when you're talking about Gen Z and they get loyal to a brand

based on what they stand for. And then when you change that, it's even if you know you're you're a

new acquisition, right? You're acquiring this company. If you change that brand, people are more apt to be like, "Well, I

don't stand for what this company stands for, so I'm just going to use someone else."

Yeah. Again, that's where that mission, those values come in as well. You know,

they it's so important that people, at least in the retail world, it's pretty clear from that article from the

bluecollar cruise last week that the Jenzers really want to do business with

people that share their values. Well, how do they how do they know what your values are if you don't have your

values, your mission, vision, and values kind of uh out there for all to see,

right? They got to be front and center for for everyone to actually know what you stand for so they can be like, "Yep,

that's a company I want to work with." you guys. Yeah. And especially when you were talking about speaking about uh like

companies that acquire other ones. It's like are their missions the same, you know, because it's like another company

buying a smaller company maybe and it's like do you do you share the same vision, the same values and the same

mission as what you bought or you know are you converting it into something else or maybe that's a good time to

change like do you leave the same one or do you change that stuff up?

It's just those you see people getting bought up by

private equity all the time, right? And it's like they everyone complains about

the corporate structure of things. It's so corporate now when before it when

you're small and you're familyowned, it's like that's what you're you're

based on. One of your your values is family, right? That being small, not

having to answer things like you you do in a corporate setting. And then once you know these

acquisitions happen, it's man, everything is so corporate. I can't just go grab this thing out of the back and be like, "Oh, you need this? Here you

go." And you know, we've gone through it when we were labor only and companies switching up their structure and it's

like, "Well, all I need is a box of blades. Well, you got to go sign this 10 pack of blades out now."

Create a a PO for that. It's like I remember remember I was like

I need this much glue, guys. This much glue.

Yeah. I I think there's you have those legacy things where um at least in in

some of the bigger business where people acquire there's always different reasons

why people get acquired, you know. So, some of it is a a a

branding move. They want to buy up their competition. That brand is kicking their rear end. And and you'll see companies

buy that up. Sometimes with private equity, I think the reason it feels so dirty, no no offense to any private

equity people out there, is because it it it's almost like they don't even research to see if it's got if it's a

good match from a mission, vision, values thing. It's just do they make money? Oh, they make a lot of money.

Let's buy them. It it's I'm not saying it's that easy, but that's more of the

way they look at it. They looking at numbers. It's all about the numbers and then the team. Um, those those

acquisitions that are made where people are buying a family-owned

business because that family-owned business is kicking their butt in like Tommy Boy kind of stuff.

Yeah, I do. I love that movie. Me, too. But, you know, they're they're buying

them because they're good, because they have this great culture and whatever. um

usually the employees are a little bit happier at the on the other side of that acquisition because they're buying it

for the right reasons. Um whereas if it's just for money, I think that's

if you look at it if you look at it in terms of software

like that's what

Microsoft does. They the companies then are like

If I buy that company, I can

He's breaking up really bad. But I I I think I You're breaking up, Daniel. But

I think uh I think what it the bottom line what he was saying was that when

Apple or Microsoft buys another software company they're buying a lot of times

they're buying because that company was more innovative and came up with something new like you know when

Facebook bought Instagram that was because not because Facebook uh and they

never changed Instagram's uh brand either Right. But they bought them

because Instagram was starting to kick that ass. Excuse my French. No, that's okay. I had some French

earlier. It was about right. So, yeah, there's a lot of different

reasons to rebrand from from this podcast. It's like really do the

research to decide whether or not it's time for a rebrand if you already have one. And if you're going to do it,

do it like Jorge is doing it. take your time and think about it and really consider your best uh you know that it

means something to you. Don't just scribble a couple of initials on a piece of nap napkin and hand it to a to your

office max and say put this on a letter head for me because that's what I did. So, you know,

have some intention behind it. And then if you if you really want to do it right, um

start with your mission, vision, and values. And then then see what you come up with for your brand, for your logo in

particular, and your tagline, you know. Yep. Ours has always been a floor above the

competition. And that was that's was our tagline. That was from way back in the

day. I just have never changed it even when we rebranded. because some things

you don't have to change everything, you know, like um ours is setting the standard one

installation at a time and that was what we were trying to do. We

were trying to do it for us, right? And that was part of our initial creating a

brand was we weren't just trying to set the standard. We weren't intentionally setting a

standard for anybody else. We wanted to do it for us. But it it resonated with both uh us and everyone else.

I do got to say that you guys are really a good example of of having

full force behind your brand. Like you believe in it. You can see it in your marketing. You can see it on your social

media stuff. You believe in it. You you you feel preferred preferred flooring.

You know, you kind of bleed it. And that's that's that's also that's uh

admirable and very effective in in building that brand too is when you once

you come up with it, if you bleed for it and your your stuff comes across like we

are the best. We you guys have a premium brand feel when people see it because of

not only the logo but who you guys are and how you put present yourself in social media. So you guys have

see if I can add him back in here. There you go. Uh but you guys have done a really good

job of like believing in it so much. So that's probably another tip to anyone is

if you uh when you go to build your brand, make sure it's something that you're going to really be able to stand

behind and be proud of. You know what I mean? Be happy with and proud of. I was not

that way. Again, I know I'm being somewhat self-deprecating on my first logo, but if you seen it, you'd

understand. Um, it it was there was nothing to believe

in. And that's one of the reasons we went through a rebrand. There was nothing to believe in or anything like

that. It was just something I scribbled down. Uh, this here, I can I can bleed for this. I I believe in it, you know,

and so I can represent it well. I can be proud when I say it. You guys bring that

to social media so well that it's um that's another probably tidbit for you guys out there looking to brand

something. Preferred does it right. We we've been

we get lucky sometimes. Well, you know the saying, right? You'd rather be lucky than skilled sometimes,

right? Yeah. Yeah. Be lucky. I'd rather be I'd rather be lucky and Daniel get to stay on the podcast here

than be skilled enough to keep him on. He's probably like right downtown Grand Rapids where you know it supposed to

have the strongest signal. 5G. 5G. Yeah. Right.

Um you're right. If if if you don't believe in it and you expect other

people to to believe in it, that's going to be a hard then you have to sell your brand instead of let it let it build

itself up organically. You shouldn't have to sell a brand or you just don't even know it, you

know? I mean to be to be 100% honest, man. I was 22 when I first started the company. I didn't know that mattered at

all. I was just like, we need a name and a logo. Well, you're right. Your brother is

downtown Grand Rapids. But we need a name and a logo. And I

thought that was the brand. And like all this other stuff we've discussed on here is like who cares? Actually, not even

who cares. It It didn't even occur to me. I was just I was that I was that uh

uneducated on this stuff that I just didn't even think it mattered whatsoever. Just put a name and a thing

and a boom and a bang and that's it. I just needed something to put on the top of an invoice, buddy. You know,

letter head. Yeah, that's what I thought. That's what I thought a brand was. But the next logo is just going to be my

thumb print. Yeah. So, well, congrats, Jorge. Um, or kudos

or whatever for like kind of going through that process. And it's it's

going to be exciting to kind of see how you are uh how this matures. And I can't wait to see the final final results of

your logo and and uh maybe a tagline or a mission statement

you brought up. So, yep. Thanks. Yeah.

Now, now I'm thinking about it. I am going to use that dog peen on the carpet road.

After all this conversation, I really think that the dog pain on the road. I think that's the

the stream. The stream better be bright. Was it duck hunt? Remember duck hunt

when you missed the ducks and the dog would laugh.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Write it down for all these kids, right? They like all that stuff.

So, how does that all the kids to Daniel's comment since he can't? He says, "When you're rebranding, I talk

about him a lot. He's talking about Simon Synynic. Start with the why. He says people don't buy

uh what people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. So

dog pins on the carpet. I fix your stuff. I'm I'm like disaster restoration.

When your dog causes disaster, I'm your guy. Yep.

I got my son looking at me. chewed up corners even around the corner. I uh

I can I always like when he brings up Simon Synynic. He's he's got a lot of you know he wrote his whole book was

start with the why um and that kind of stuff. And so that's what the again the

mission vision and values are. All that is all the same stuff. So, I hope you guys got some I hope our audience got

some um tidbits, some nuggets from these dudes that that um might help you kind

of understand if you're in the position where you are ready to brand, ready to

create a brand. Um I would say even if you're a single installer, you are the brand. So, like own that. Go

buyyouname.com and and keep it. Yes. and and at least start a personal blog about yourself and

why you do what you do. And that by itself could help you win win projects.

I can tell you that right now. Yeah, that was the main thing uh that stopped me for a while because the name

some of the names that I was looking for for websites weren't available. So, I finally got around to getting one that

is available and I purchased the site and then other variations of it, too.

Yeah. Yep. So, hopefully everybody got at least a

couple nuggets from whether it's time to rebrand or whether it's time to start a brand. Again, like I said, you are the

brand. Uh whether you are deciding to kind of materialize that into a, you

know, a logo and a mission statement and all of that stuff. Hopefully, we gave you a little bit of something to chew

on. Um, again, I want to thank Divergent Adhesives for sponsoring this episode

and uh, Sunny and all he does for the uh, industry. I really I really admire

that guy and appreciate him a lot. So, thank you to everyone, the diver gent right there. Um, if you are catching us

on YouTube, like and subscribe. Give us a subscription. uh the more

subscriptions we have, the better we do in the algorithm and all that good jazz. So, it's really important that you guys,

if you like any of this content, that you engage with us on our social platforms as well as YouTube. So, with

that, any final words from the the the two experts on the panel here?

I don't know about experts. Just say just go with it. Like it. I just say just go with it. like if you

if if if you you're feeling it, go with it and just get the motions and start

the process because it also it's it's time consuming if you're if you're going to want to do it right. So

get started. Just try to try to go with it. Yep. Just get started. Um

believe in what you're doing and make sure that it's authentic. You don't want to have to sell your brand. You don't

want to have to create something that you know is false. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that part. Many small time make big time. Daniel

says Daniel says Daniel says Daniel. All right, everyone. Thank you so much.

We'll catch you guys next week. Thank you everyone. All right. Thank you. Bye. Have a good one, guys.