The Huddle - Episode 158 - The Future of Training: How Certification Programs Are Changing the Industry
This week, Paul, Daniel, and Jose are joined by Sonny Callaham and Scott Bohaker from NAFCT to talk about where training in the flooring industry is headed—and why it matters more now than ever. From updated certification standards to how NAFCT is building a better path for installers, we’re diving into what’s working, what’s changing, and how you can stay ahead.
💡 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
How NAFCT is leading the charge on certification reform
What makes today’s training programs more effective (and accessible)
Why modern certifications matter for both new and seasoned installers
How facilities like NAFCT’s are building community and improving standards
Whether you're a new installer or a 20-year pro, this episode gives you the insight you need to grow, adapt, and level up your game.
Why This Episode Matters:
At The Huddle Podcast, we’re all about Forward Progress in the flooring industry. That means embracing new tech, better training, and real conversations that move us forward. This episode gives you a front-row seat to the organizations shaping the future of the trade.
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Please visit our new website! https://thehuddle.team
Hey, what's up everyone? Welcome to the huddle, your weekly playbook,
whatever Paul says for um to help you with forward progress in your career.
Yeah, Ashlin says, "So close." I'm always so close, but never there,
which is fine. I'm I'm good with it. If you guys can't tell, that's so natural. Like, it sounds so natural, but he
rehearsed that for so long. Am I still really loud, you guys?
Yes. Dude, brotherly love.
I know, right? So, we're going to be talking about uh some training today, and we got good old Sunny Callahan and
Scott Bohacker here with us. So, I'm going to start with Sunny and we'll just do some introductions for the people
that don't know who you are. Sure. Sure. My name is Sunny Callahham. I've been in the flooring industry since
about 88. Um, started out as a helper carrying pad. Um, cutting waffle pad in
half rolls because it was too small to carry a full roll of waffle pad. and um
just made my way through the industry, installer, project manager, work my way up and um now own Divergent Adhesives
and we go out there and try to help make the job easier for installers. Nice. I think that's one of the things
that people don't realize is uh the progression through the the industry that you can can do.
Yep, that's right. Scott, tell us about yourself. Well, my name is Scott Boacaker and I
grew up in Canada. I moved down to Puerto Rico in 2004 to get away from the
snow and the cold and whatnot. And uh I grew up in a carpet one in British
Columbia. Went down to Puerto Rico, started doing hotels, working on the resorts down there, doing carpet
installations, cutting my teeth a little bit in commercial and all the Caribbean islands. moved to Georgia 2007.
The rest is kind of history. We, me and my wife Tammy, own a commercial flooring
installation company called Bowmont Flooring. We travel all across the US and Canada doing senior living homes,
hotels, whatnot. We do a lot of remediation work for the manufacturers.
uh CFI certified, C2R2, uh active flooring inspector, FCITS and
its uh do a lot of moisture testing, part of the CFI certification team, new product
installs. So, this just seemed like the natural progression to
help with NFCT and see if we can try to take it to another level.
Nice, man. So, you went from the Caribbean islands to Georgia. Yes, I do prefer the uh
basically I do prefer the weather much better down here. But the Georgia and Puerto Rico
weather seemingly very similar in the spring. It's But you know what? The little bit of
snow we get, I'm perfect with just a little bit. I mean, the last time
I was down there was pretty cold. I think it was like uh I don't know in the
40s or something like that. Well, in the winter time we do get a little chilly and we do get a little bit
of snow sometimes, but I can't complain because it was probably snowing here.
I was going to say 40 is nothing. That's summertime, right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Uh we also have the
Bulmont Flooring Training and Education Center down here in Calhoun. And uh we
have a space dedicated I'm in the classroom right now about 1,200 foot
classroom dedicated to flooring installers, inspectors, sales staff.
We've worked had manufacturers we've hosted here. We have a training area in the back about 3,000 square feet where
we do installation trainings and whatnot. So we're pretty equipped to take these trainings to the next level
here in Georgia. Yeah. And I think that was the like you said earlier the kind of progression right where you just kind of seen that
fit with NFCT. So can you kind of give us a rundown on um how that came to be
and what your plans are for uh the future? Well, to start with, Sunny approached us
because we all know that Paul got approached with another opportunity in
his life and Sunny needed somebody to
take Paul's place for lack of a better term. Even though I'm not sure,
a more rounded individual, maybe somebody involved in the installation side of things, the inspector side of
things. That was the goal.
I'd love to say that Sunny made the right decision. The board uh voted us in and me and Tammy, my wife Tammy Boaker,
for those of you who don't know her, she is heavily involved in the business side of things.
We really want to stay involved with all the other acronyms out there. As we all know in
the flooring industry, there is a lot of different acronyms. We have CFI, we have NAFFCT, we have IT, we have NFCT, we
have AFT, NICFI, its give me a few more.
Yes. WFCA or out. You need uh a guide just to keep up with
all those. But we want to continue working with everybody, all the different groups, promoting unity,
bringing everybody together. Because at the end of the day, what do we all want to do? Provide training. We want a better educated
flooring installer. Whether it be the same thing, hands-on skills,
business skills, something that is really lacking these days. We really want to try to help out, try to get
these installers on track so they have a better understanding of finances of the IRS,
insurance, building relationships with insurance agents, attorneys,
everything. We want a better rounded installer, right? A lot of the stuff that you don't see
until you're already deep into it. Really? Oh, yeah. How many of us either
in the group chat or face to face here have gotten themselves in some trouble
with the IRS in the past. Boom. Yeah, we didn't know any better.
Yep. Nothing more frustrating than losing a talented fitter in the in their
30s in the prime of their life because they didn't pay their taxes and they got to go to a different industry. Can't
tell you how many times I've seen that. It's just it's a shame. We can't afford to lose. No, we cannot. And we need
We need to keep those people in the industry. And yeah. Well, and and the other thing too
that frustrates me is when you see somebody out on the job site, they're 68 years old and they've got installed till
the day they die because they didn't put away anything. They didn't plan for the future, had no financial guidance during
their life when it would have been really easy to, you know, to set some money aside and enjoy life.
Even, you know, been on TikTok and seen some of the some guys on there that used to be teachers and quit. so they can
focus on teaching kids just financial literacy, like the ba the basics,
budgeting, stuff like that. It's things that people don't think about and then you start a business and it's like
you're you're already in it and then all these things pop up and it's like, man, I had no idea. And I, you know, like I
said, I I was talking to to Scott earlier on the phone and that's what I said. I tell people that we were um like
by accident we were successful and you know and things can change at any point but you people look at us and they're
like oh you guys are successful which is you know relative but I don't we we
didn't have anything in place and that's why we are on the podcast and stuff like that so that way we can tell people you
know we didn't know these things when we started so we want you guys to have a leg up because we didn't go through that
for nothing. Yeah. I'm going to test my microphone. I'm going to test my microphone and butt in for a second about that.
Um my still super loud, you guys. I don't know what to do. It's like going up and down.
Uh but um I did sit a few years ago sit in a classroom with a bunch of people in
a school setting and said or they were asking the community, "What do we need to bring back to schools?" Obviously, it was uh at a time when we
started falling short on labor. Um and then they started, "Yeah, you're right. We could bring um the trades back and
and teach this." And then I raised my hand. I'm like, "Well, what about teaching students how to um I don't want
to say balance the checkbook, right? But understanding the the difference between owning a business
and what's a P&L?" Yeah. Like all that, the profit and loss. Like they weren't saying any of that. They're like, "Well, if you go to
college, you can learn this and learn that." Like, "So, you're going to wait until they're in debt to teach them how
to manage their debt?" Like, that's that doesn't make sense to me, you guys. And
great point. Of course, you know, some people were like, "Oh, I'm I'm glad you said that. I'm happy you said something." And some people were like, "I don't know why you
even said anything in the flooring industry." Yeah. I was fortunate. I realized that
really early in my career, especially when I was a subcontractor, that I wasn't the money guy. I needed to have
somebody hold my money and and delegate it for me because I wasn't going to keep track of my taxes. I wasn't going to do
the 401k. And, you know, that transferred over to when I started running my own business. I made sure the
first thing I did was I got a money guy. My partner in in AF or Divergent
Adhesives, he's a he's a uh got his masters in forensic accounting. He knows numbers, right? So that that's how we
understand what I don't know how to do and to get the right people around. It's a running joke. If I was had
somebody like Tammy when I was a young man, I would be a wealthy man right now. But uh no, and in my 20s, I made I made
a lot of money and I spent a lot of money and that's the way it worked. And in the flooring industry, we're a little
unique, too, because you got folks like us who have our own businesses and
whatnot, but we also have a lot of installers who are either employees of different stores are our
guys that work on our cruise, they're all employees, but we also have a lot of 1099 employees there. So, there's
different things for everybody. Not depending on how you're employed, but not a 1099 employee.
Yeah, Doy Doyle nailed it. Easy come, easy go money. That's the mentality. Kind of what we're talking about. Like
you you think it's always going to be easy until it's you're you're sitting there not working and then it's like
what am I going to do tomorrow now? Like start getting into a panic mode
sometimes. Growing up in Canada in the wintertime they they didn't build any houses
because they couldn't they couldn't pour any foundations or whatnot. So, we would hit a really slow time and we had none
of us knew what to do with ourselves because we didn't have any money saved up and there was no work coming in. We'd all be scrging over the few jobs that
would come in. So, listen, if we could prepare the the guys a little better and gals, that would really
it's a good that'd be a good start. Yeah. Um,
putting the floors is only part of it. Is that what's in the plans right now? Do you guys have anything like for that
or is that something that you you're going to be working on to try and get something to to bring people over there
to take a class for that? Well, we have already been speaking with Mark Farnsworth with professional floor
covering training. They're based out of Ohio. They're putting some classes in the the Tri County Career Center up in
Ohio and they're talking about not only having installation classes, but we're
going to go forward with some financial planning as well and marketing classes
so that they can become more well-rounded and they can come out and they can actually have a career and maybe be able have a
better chance at success. So, yeah, we're going deep into that already in the colleges. we need to expand that
into the high schools because a lot of kids now they don't fall into the
category of being necessarily college material, right? So, we need to probably target those kids and because I was one
of those kids and nobody ever targeted me. I just somebody found me and all of a sudden I was unloading a
truckload of pad and then I became somebody's helper and went from there.
But like target these kids so they Yes.
With the with the uh tri-state uh training that we're going to be doing with Mark, we actually had a call with a
with a guy a couple of days ago that he was actually someone who went through
the IBM management program. And some of you guys might not be old enough to know how exclusive that club in is and how
intense that training was. some of the biggest CEOs in the world went through the IBM training. So he he was talking a
lot of things to us that that really is could be beneficial to young people not
even going in floor covering but going into life, things that they can look into and things they should be looking
out for. And uh it was really impressive talking with him. Yeah, he he came over here too and talked to us and trying to
get some stuff going over here and that's what we talked about too was you know getting into the community colleges
and for these classes and you know it it takes x amount of people for it to run
but then it's like these things need to happen. Um
Ry says I don't know what website he's talking about but what's the status of the new website?
I don't know. We don't have a new one coming. No one.
So Ray, if you can type in what which which site you're talking about, but we we definitely don't have a new
one coming. We just did ours when we started in 21.
Going to Doyle's question there too. I He's asking the percentage of independent installers. that it be a
really tough number to come up with because not only we got big box stores
we can throw in there, we got retailers,
got folks like us. That'd be a really tough number to come
up with and I don't think it's very big because of just the material aspect, right?
People don't realize how much material costs until you actually have to go get it. Unless um you know that's what but
that's why they have the the floor sources of the world and stuff like that. So that way you can send clients
in there and just have them pay and you don't have to worry about it. So that number is probably growing,
but you you do have to realize that some of these guys are just one twoman crews and if they're out trying to sell,
they're not on the floor making money. That is very accurate.
Yeah. And we at Bowmont Flooring, we are a labor only house. We don't we don't sell materials. So, we leave that to
somebody else. So, apparently Paul and Sarah said a new website was coming, but I don't recall
that. That That's great. I don't know anything about it, so I'm not sure how far along
they are. So Andy says he would say 75% for
$10.99, but I guess um that's working through a store instead of selling your
own materials and stuff like that. Yeah. Well, I think I think a lot of
installers who and and a lot of the people on here who have been members of
the flooring installers of America page have realized that you know what, I can sell the product. I can make money. I
can sell myself for a little bit more than what I'm doing. And you know, it's just like what we were talking about
before. It's just knowing that you can having someone else tell you they did it and how they did it. Um there's just a
lot more opportunity out there than just being an installer, unless that's what you want to do, and that's perfectly fine, too.
Yeah. There's people out there that that's what they'd rather focus on is installing. So, that's what they do. And
you know there's pe I know people personally that have started selling materials and everything and they were doing it for years and then they finally
back up and they're just like I just I just want to do the work and you don't know until you try. Right.
Yep. Not everybody is meant to be a salesperson. Not everybody is meant to be a business owner.
Like this there is some folks that are just more comfortable just putting their head down and getting the work done.
If my body would take it, I'd still be installing because I mean, why wouldn't you? You go back at the end of the day
and you look down and know you did that. You know you did a good job. No other job. Instant gratification. Humans love that.
And that's what you get when you're installing is you you start with something that looks like nothing. And
then by the end of the day, you're like, man, let me take a picture. It's probably why I do dumb stuff like create
projects for myself around the house because I don't get get to work with my hands near as much as I used to.
That's right. You would think though that that we're not installing full-time anymore that we would have a whole bunch more time on
our hands, but that is older and older we get, time is our most
valuable commodity and uh there's not enough of it and we can't produce any
more of it, right? So, I got some Diver Gent fans coming up on
the chat boards. How's it going? That was the the best sticker, the best
use of a sticker that I've ever seen in my life. I was like, "What? What's this?
Oh, I get it. I get it. He's a diver. He's a gentleman. He's
divergent." So, um, as as far as training, right? I
mean, people are on both sides of it. You got us that are like, "Let's do this." And then you've got the other
people that are like, "What do I need this for?" And I think that
the future is looking bright because technology changes so fast these days.
It's not like back in the day when you you're using the same adhesive for 10 years. It's things are changing on a
yearly basis, probably more than that. Um, you're in the adhesive game. I don't know how much you guys changed, but it's
all Especially right now, right? Or in especially in 2020 when raw materials
were hard to get. It was things were changing on the fly and you had to be on your game. That's right.
So, what what do you guys see for the future? And um not just installation
training, but we're talking business training or inspectors. What what's happening in the future?
Well, it's just kind of like what we were just talking about, the instant gratification. And I think we see a lot
of people um not who don't want to do the training. It's because they don't
gain anything the next week after the training. And that's not how it works. It's not like you go to the training and you instantly get a raise. It has to do
with how you market yourself and how you carry yourself in in the industry and um
letting people know that you do know how to do it right. Um there's a great um
amount of folks, architects, specifiers who are willing to pay a little bit more to get it done right. I mean, and that's
just the way that you have to uh present yourself. And yes,
so I want to add to that, too. And um I didn't mean to to cut you off there, Scott, but go there.
When you when you go to the certifications, you go to the trainings, you go to these conventions, you go to a
social network with people who are in your field, you tend to pick up and
learn a couple things, uh about how to market yourself, um about presentation,
about the importance of putting everything together as a whole. Um to
create, um I don't want to say to create, right? to kind of uh showcase
who who you really are and what you're really about as an installer. Um, and if
I said that um we didn't start off by doing some shameless marketing and plugs without
really knowing what we were doing, I'd be lying to you guys. Um, you know, but we learned a lot more as we got out
there more and every time we went uh to a convention or to a training, we learned something new. Um,
and we got I don't say we got better, but we added more more ammunition to
that uh marketing tool. You you added people to your network. I mean, Daniel, how long ago did we meet
at that thing? And there was a lot of this this 10 years easy, if not more. And you met people and you created this
network with folks and now you guys have a podcast. You're one of the most popular contractors in the United
States. people know you guys and it's not because they it's not because you
know how to install the best, right? That's not a knock at you, but you want to help everybody in your industry and
people can talk to you because they you can relate to the problems they're seeing in the real world, right? So,
your network is expanding. Not only are you meeting people that help you, but you're meeting people that you can help.
And it goes both ways. And not everybody understands that's how it goes. That's how Daniel and I met ourselves. I was at
a I was doing a CFI training in Forny. Daniel was in class getting his uh what
was that? C1 Daniel I think. Yeah. R R1C1 R1C1. And it's and we've been friends
ever since. The the people you meet these conventions and surfaces and the
trainings you you stick with those people forever. and the we rely on each
other and we get better because of each other. Right? So, I want to go to this comment
real quick. Doyo says, you know, that what we were talking about, there's the same gratification for a salesman who goes and pre-qualifies a job to sell
proper flooring and proper prep for that situation.
Making sure the installer, you know, knows what he needs. It's a team effort. And that's 100% true, especially when
you're talking about residential markets because there's too many salesmen out there. Well, it's not just residential, it's commercial, too. There's too many
salesmen that just go out and sell sell sell and then it's worry about it later.
Um, so yeah, that that is a good point with with the sales side. And it is I mean it
it does feel like that sometimes especially when like I'll
put out the YMCA it's in my hometown you know it was a huge job and I really wanted it and then when you actually get
the email that's like hey you guys got it does feel really really good.
And then Dan says um trainings and certifications are tools. It's not a paycheck you have to sell yourself.
Just saying as his sometimes he says but that is a big part of it. People
that people who take trainings and get certifications they need to know how to market themselves and set themselves a
apart from others as well. And that's as a group when we're networking that's
when we can teach each other. This is how you can market yourself. This is how you can move forward. you don't have to
get stuck in the same rut. Let's let's make us all better, right?
Yeah. Well, it's like Denise said, the tribe, and we we talk about this in in in NFCT a lot. Um,
you know, our partners, excuse me, who hold the class, they're the manufacturers, right? And they have
their technical guys there. Our board of directors is all technical guys, a couple of contractors as well. Um,
but the to have the network of being able to call the the tech rep for the
product you're using directly instead of just calling an 800 number to get through can cost you hours on a job
site, save you hours, right? So, these networks that you build, you know, if
you could pick up the phone and call Kevin with a question that you have with something right when you think of
Yeah. you you can call him and and not have to go through four different, you know, voicemails.
It means something. It's a value to you. So, it's it's much more than just than
just getting that piece of paper says, "Okay, you spent eight hours training on this." It's so much more than that.
Yeah. 100%. Um, I'm going to go back here to what Andy said about
uh the salesman worry about it later because it falls on the installer, not the sales guy when it goes bad,
right? But that's where it's a team effort. And I think that's where we have to start looking at
things as a whole, right? We're talking about training and entities just helping each other out. It's the same thing if
you're an installer or you're a salesperson. It's not about blaming one or the other. It's about a collaborative. And it's going, you know,
seeing that paperwork and then going to the salesman and being like, I don't think this is going to work. Let's talk about this before we get out there.
And then Doyle says, and you'll see the guys who have been selling for a long time, they're going to go to their their main guy. I know
Andy worked at a place like that where if it was something a little sketchy, they would get the installer involved on
the front end to know what they had to do. You know, to answer Kevin's about what's being done to educate the retail
sales staff, honestly, that's so hard because there's so much turnover, right?
It it's got to it's got to come from the person who owns the store, who is
running the store to make sure that they're trained before they just start going out there and thinking they know
how to do it right. Um but it's difficult to get get to those folks to
train them accordingly. It was different in my past life. I used to do trainings for manufacturers and we
used to go into stores and do new product trainings and we would work with the installers at like 7 o'clock in the
morning for an hour, hour and a half and then we would roll into the sales staff right afterwards so we could assist them
on how to sell their product and the advantages of the product. That's it's as Sunny said, it's difficult to get in
front of that group sometimes. What I was going to say was um if
they're already making money, then it's hard to get them away from behind the desk. It's hard to get an installer off
of the floor if they're already making money without it. Um looking long term
is where where we have to try to resonate with them. We have to try to find something
that sticks with them to have them understand that if you're in it for the long haul, then start now. Daniel's a
little comment about uh that he took off of the that uh I forget what show right now, The Office.
Many small time make big time, right? And you got to start doing that many small time as soon as possible.
Even if you're a 50-year-old installer, uh and you're looking you might be looking for a way to get off your knees
that that there is a path and you will find that path when you find your people, you find your tribe. Um, and
that path might be training the salespeople you've been working under for years, but go get some accolades.
Get get some um get some notches on that belt so that way everything's validated and that not
Yeah. for the industry and for yourself. And you know what? It might not be the
first thing you do. You know, I like to think I'm a decent person. I'd be a good employee, but in my late 20s, I was the
worst hireer you could ever have because I didn't know what I wanted to do, right? I knew I wanted to get off my
knees. Went to one place, started a service department, did that for about a year and a half. I was like, "No, I
don't really want to do that." Then I became uh, you know, the schedule for the labor. I damn sure didn't want to do
that for more than about 60 days. Then I was a project manager. Then I was in sales. I just kept saying, I know this
isn't what I want to do. And finally, I made it over to the dark side, worked for a manufacturer, and I realized
that's where I wanted to stay. And I, you know, I found adhesives. Adhesives found me. Um, just the way I think. I'm
analytical. You do this and it works. If you don't do that, it won't work. So, I found peace of mind. And but it took it
took a long time. I had patience. I had a guy who was very patient with me in Florida. Anybody in Orlando knows
Blackton, Inc. And uh Sean over there. God, I bet he gave me four or five different jobs because I just didn't
know what I wanted to do. You were learning. And this that's right. I learned a little bit of
everything by doing it though, right? It's uh it helped, but it wasn't helpful to him. Right. You still got to be a
good employee. And that kind of brings me to what I wanted to uh plug right here is because NFCT and Divergent Adhesives came on as
uh you know, partners of the show. So, I want to show some appreciation there. Um and kind of, you know, you're you're the
man in in charge. So, I want to give you some some time to to plug your adhesives and stuff.
No, I appreciate that, man. Uh, you know, when you approached me, it was a it was a no-brainer for me. Um, uh, we
we enjoy what you do. More importantly, you know, the way you support the industry and support installers, we
wanted to be a part of that. Um, you know what we what we talk about at Divergent is we try to make the
installers's life as simple as possible because if the installers out there and
they're fighting the products that they're installing, be it the underllayment, the adhesive, the flooring, you know, it's not going to go
well. So, on our part, we try to make the adhesive, you know, overengineered as much as we can to where when they're
there, they don't have the issue, they're not thinking about it, and they can focus on doing a good job. So, you
know, our motto is for installers by installers. We've been doing it for a long time. And I I have on here, you know, on our
sponsorship page, you know, Divergent Adhesives delivers high performance adhesives designed specifically for the
demands of flooring professionals. That's us guys, you know, and uh Divergent is the go-to
choice who can't avoid failure or afford failure. Not
and uh that's right. We used we used some on one of our projects that that we ended up uh um adopting from PJ and it
was already there on site and it was the first time and Whoa.
Hey, you got that 440 for the double glue down. That'll get you. And then I mean the NFCT is kind of
setting a stage right now too where um it's almost a hybrid certification and
we talk about technology and that's where it's really key, right? where you don't have to spend days on days on days
getting the the information that you can get by just being on your computer. And you know, we're we're it's a hybrid world
these days. My wife works hybrid. We can work hybrid if we wanted to.
But I mean, that's that's huge in the technology game right there for
classes to be held online and then, you know, go get the certification in
person. That's right. We try to let you do as much as you can online, but we also
don't want you to have to sit down and watch an hour and a half video on how to prep the floor, right? So, we break it
up into seven to eight different modules that are about 30 minutes, right? You can take 30 minutes and watch a quick
video and then take a quiz on it. That way, when you get to the hands-on portion, you've already got, you know,
what what you need to know. Now they're just going to teach you how to apply it in the real world and you're not taking
a week off of work. You're just taking a day or two off depending on what you're going for with certification and and you
do most of it online. So we've been pretty successful with it and uh we definitely appreciate that.
Our guys did um the online portion and learned so much about just underllayment
in general and it it's crazy. can cover more online than we can if we
if we have the group in the training area. There's too much to cover.
So, we need to focus on the hand skills when they're on the floor when they're here. That's what we need to focus on,
not the classroom time so much. I 100% agree with that. And then, yeah, especially with the young people.
I I think I've told this story on the on here before about real quick. We work with a group called AMI Kids and
it's uh you know 15 to 19 year old kids that this is their last stop. They screw
up again, they're going to prison, not jail, prison. So we go in there and uh did some training for them and the first
day we opened up the projector with the PowerPoint and I think we got to slide
three and half the class was asleep. They're like this is not for us. Paul and I had to scrap the presentation and
just go to the store, buy a bunch of flooring, and just let them install it, you know? It's just you got to know your
audience, right? Um, you just can't make everything adapt to everybody. So,
that's what we try to do when we're talking about different types of flooring. I'm a trainer for you guys and I love doing the heat welding and flash cove
training and that was one of my draws, right, was if I'm going to be on site,
we're going to be hands-on. And that's what everyone loves about the training cuz you know I I talked to some of the
guys and they were like uh so what's the plan like after I do introductions I'm like we're going to
get out there and they're like a I thought we were going to be in here for like five hours. No man let's go out there and start getting hands on right
away. That's right. That's right. You can't read a book on how to flash code.
You can the totally different doing it though. So Kevin did ask this question that I
want to get to. What part of the industry do you see the most need for education?
And and Dan answered I think it's the heat well answered good right here as a but that's
well it falls under a different category. We need better trained installers. We need more installers who
are better trained and have better knowledge and who care. We need to teach them how to care about what they're
doing. And I always say like I took installation classes and it made me a
much better installer because I realized all the things I was taught that I was doing wrong. Then I became an inspector
and all of the sudden I started seeing the consequences of all my actions and all the things that I was not doing
properly. So we need more trained installers. We need better trained installers.
Well-rounded installers. I was a floor layer when I grew up. I wasn't a carpet layer. I wasn't a hard surface. I laid
floors. So, if it went on the floor, we put it in. We got a lot of specialized guys nowadays that they don't do carpet.
They don't do resilient. Let's try to get everybody doing everything again. Let's have everybody
more rounded as far as inspectors are concerned. Let's try to focus on maybe
not more inspectors, a better trained inspector, more training. Let's make the inspectors we have, let's make them
better sales staff. Let's have sales staff that actually knows the product
that they're selling. That I'm in Georgia. There's billboards on
I75 going up and down and advertising waterproof floor. Let's have it so these
customers are a little better informed when they come in and they buy new flooring. Hey, just a side note on that ASM FO6,
which I'm telling every one of you, you need to be a freaking member of because it's resilient flooring. We are working
on a definition of waterproof versus water resistant to help eliminate this
marketing term out there. It's like LBT. It means nothing, but give it a definition to where people understand
what that means because obviously it's been oversold. But you know, but but back to the point that what we were
talking about, if you're not looking at what looking at yourself and looking back a couple of years thinking, how did
I get away with doing it that way for so long? You're not learning. You should be doing that every couple of years,
learning something more, looking back and realizing that how much better you could be. You because you're never
perfect. You should Your luck will run out eventually. That's right. And unfortunately, it's
it's just like with moisture, you know, if you don't you don't check with moisture, you don't do the proper floor prep or you don't look for this,
whatever it is, that one job that bites you may be enough to bankrupt you. And just unless you have really good
insurance, you don't know that your ASM and you don't know what that is, you need to
look into that like right now because any inspector that's going to show up on the site is going to that's probably one
of the first questions they ask. Let me get the moisture test, the moisture readings. That's right. And they're g those
inspectors are going to judge you by one of three for the main ones, but even more, they're going to judge you by
2170, which is the relative humidity, 1869, calcium chloride, F710 being the
most important. If if you don't have F710 in your toolbox, in your truck, on
your phone, you've lost because you don't know what what to expect because someone's going to come out and they go,
"Well, you didn't do this, this, and this." You can't win the game if you don't know the rules. It's $115 to be a
member of ASDM. And I'll know because I'm the uh uh secretary for
membership secretary. call you personally and say, "Hey, you need to do something."
Yeah. Ask me how I know. That's right. You need to vote. So, I want to go back up here real quick. Uh,
and, you know, just pop up a couple comments. Doyle says, "Not to give up on retailers. He knows they're hard-headed,
but he's made a great life, fulfilling life as a salesman, and it's exciting."
And we're we're not saying that it's not. It's just that some salesmen don't look at the installation aspect and
think of the installers when they are quoting projects. And I know Doyle, he is one of the the
ones that is always trying to get more informed, get more educated. He
is really if we had more like Doyle, I think we'd be in a much better place. And then Ray says that he did a y
online resilient flooring course with Paul. was wonderful being able to learn over 12 weeks instead of five college
level days with a fire hose. Is there That's right. That was one of our best
classes that we did. But like you said, one night a week for 12 weeks. You had homework to do in between. It was really
a good course. Can't wait. He said, "Is there going to be um any type of follow-up class in person for that?"
Yes. Yes. Awesome. Yeah. During this transition, we got it. We we'll get um Scott up to speed and
we'll have these things soon. Um Dan did reply. He said that he met him at the summit. So
yeah, he's one of the those good guys. And we got we got Kevin here. How do you feel about inspectors with no
background in the flooring industry taking an online course, getting their license, and going out there and and
inspecting the inst the insp uh trying to reword this? Inspecting what the
installers are installing with decades of experience and knowledge.
I hate them. There's no other way to put it. I mean, there's too many people out there who say they're an inspector
because they went to a three-day course. It drives me crazy. No. Yeah. What we need to do like and we
need to recognize that we get a lot of these classes for inspectors
and I used to teach them so I I know this it's basic knowledge on what we need to
do as inspectors. But we need to they need to continue their education as well
and think of it as a introductory class and let's make myself better because you can't learn everything in the flooring
industry inspection wise, installation wise, any aspect of it in in a week.
Yeah. And that and that's one more avenue that you can take as an installer with that installation background. It's
it's a really um good transition into being an inspector. I mean, they're the
necessary evil. I used to uh I used to joke around with Paul that uh you know,
because that's kind of how we met. He was inspector. I was on manufacturing side and we'd have some heated debates.
And you know, he he knows he can relate things to installers of why they did
something the way they did, right? That's the biggest misconception with uh inspectors. But I used to tell him he's
it's him being a good inspector is like being the least smelliest homeless person at the shelter.
He really doesn't matter. You're still terrible. But I think it's just like anything else, right? Until you get that hands-on
experience, it's it doesn't matter. So, we were talking about this like watching
videos and stuff on YouTube and getting information out there just so that way people have an idea of what needs to be
done and how it can be done right is different than them actually going in and doing it right. Um there that's
where the you can release videos and there's still a market for that hands-on training. Um a video will only get you
so far. It's these right here that really make or break you.
And it's just, you know, getting that experience whether it's in a class or yourself. I mean, for years we were not
certified. So, it's it's definitely not something that it's like if you're not
certified, you're horrible. No, it's one of those things where you can be really really great, but then going to a
certification, you take one thing away, makes you even better. And then like you said earlier, it's taking what you know
and then letting other people um kind of absorb what you know. It's helping other
people be better. And that's where I think a lot of the guys lack in the industry because the flooring industry
for so long has just been I'm almost gonna take what I know to the grave because if I teach you, you're going to
take all my work. And that's a horrible mentality to have. Yeah. Right. There's room for everybody
to Well, I think you know the biggest thing with Oh, the biggest thing with inspectors that I see and it goes from
in, you know, the very early on in their career to the end of their career is communication skills. And that can
relate to anybody at any time, especially in the on the installer side. But being able to communicate what you
know to the person who's going to deal with what you know, the problem that you're trying to service is difficult
sometimes, right? So, you've got an inspector who's trying to talk, you know, manufacturing jargon that's going
to a homeowner. They don't understand what that means. Same with an installer. If they're trying to talk and they can't
break it down for an for a homeowner or the GC or the building owner, it's not going to get done the way it needs to
get done. So, that was one of the things when we talked about what what was his name,
Daniel? Ron, was that his name? The IBM guy? Ron or Eric? Eric.
Eric. Sorry, I couldn't remember his name. But that's one of the things he talked about, you know, is is working on
those soft skills, those communication skills. Um because you know when I was
running the service department for that company, I knew there were some really talented guys out there, but I could
never put them in the house with a homeowner doing a repair. Just wasn't going to happen. Wasn't going to work out. So, you know, you know, the way it
always works out is the guy who's the nicest, he doesn't have the best hand skills, so that's who we have to send out. It's the way it works. So, if you
have both, you can make a lot of money. A lot of the best uh floor guys I know, Yeah. They have zero people skills
altogether. But their hand skills are phenomenal. That's right. That's right.
And focus on those strengths. You know, not everybody is made to do that. You also have to realize that not everyone is made to run a business, too.
Right. So, can you get coached through that? Absolutely. But it's let's get this coaching and training and stuff
first before you go out there full force and then ruin your name on something that could have been avoided.
That's right. Sunny, are there plans for another? Did Denise just call me a tool? Oh, the internet's a tool. Sorry.
No, we are. We were working on it. We We uh we tried to get it for the fall, Kevin, for the summit, but I don't think
that's going to work with the change that we had here at NFCT. It kind of put us behind.
Um, so we're probably going to go back to looking at the spring of next year. And for those of you on here that went,
I hope you can agree with me, but it was like it was unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. We had
the top names in the industry talking about specialized topics that uh um that
they know a lot about. They even let me up there for a little bit. But um there's just a lot of good
information that we can get when we all get together. Again, that's where we met Doyle. We got to meet so many people
there in person. Uh, you know, the education's great, but the relationships are even better.
It was small, it was intimate, it was easy to navigate. Um,
yeah, we had 100 people there. Um, little trade show. It's, you know, I I I loved it. I think
it was great. We we immediately started working on the other one, but we couldn't get it couldn't get it quite together. So, we'll we'll go back and u
u do it again in the spring. I think we're we're really looking at doing it in Dallas in the middle of the country.
It's easy to fly in and out of. There's a place right there at the airport. Um try to make it a little bit more easier
to get to. Dalton's not the easiest place to fly into. The summit was his first experience with
superstars and I'm pretty sure he's talking about you two up there. Yeah, both of you guys. Well, and the
good thing about the summit was like we've all been everybody here has been to surfaces and sometimes you want to
talk to somebody in a booth specifically and you walk up and they're busy. They're talking to somebody. So, you try
to circle back to them a little bit later and they're talking to somebody else and it you guys are right. It was
very intimate so we could really have discussions with everybody before, after, during. It was it was really
cool.
collect interest on summit payment. You got a refund. Come on. If you have it,
I'll make sure you get I think the opportunity was there, right? To uh to keep saving for when
it's rescheduled, I think is what that's probably what talking. Yeah, maybe that's what we did. Maybe.
So, that's Yeah, I mean it's it's it is. It's really small and intimate and you can have conversations and it the
information is great, man. I mean, my first time going to to see you guys way back in the day and then I came back
here and I'm like, man, I just I I think I filled the notebook up just taking notes.
You love me some notes. Yeah, that was that was our very very
first attempt at Flash Cove and Heat Weld. And um that was with uh who was
Oh, William and Mike Pigeon. That's who you're with. Yeah. Yeah. Puppy did it. And um but it was it
was it was I came across some pictures from that one the other day and I was looking and reminiscing thinking, "Hey man, we come a long way, baby, because
it's a lot different than what we were doing there." But you know, just like you guys take the class, you try to get better. We do
the same thing with the programs that we're teaching. You know, every time we'll have, okay, let's do this different, let's do that different, and
we're constantly trying to make it as best as we can, make it the best we can. And I may be biased because of my relationship with Daniel, but I think we
he welding is one thing in flash cing that I'd like to say is a dying part of
our trade and we need to get more into it because there is a lot of work that kind of work out there.
I I am not a flash coverver. I'm not a heat welder. I I did a little bit of it in my 20s, but that was way too long
ago. So, we need to get some more folks trained up on how to do that. And
it's definitely one of those uh it's an acquired taste, right? It's
if you're hyper competitive and you like to be good at what you do and you want to try something and you want to be better because you don't want to tell
someone you failed or you can't give it a shot. You challenge yourself every single time, no matter how many years
you have. Um but if you're like, "Oh, I just want to have an easy day. I don't want to be
challenged." Then just do carpet tile. Well, that that goes to a comment that I
seen earlier right here. Doyle said, "We need installers that are trainable." And if you think that you're not making any
mistakes, you are dead wrong. Like, I don't care who you are. I've been doing this for years. I still make mistakes
all the time. That's right. The job site won't let you do it perfect. If the job site was
perfect and installers did it perfect, I can knock out about 50% of the strength of my talk about training,
right? But I have to overcome things that I train. I will be in a training and then showing
someone how to do something and then be like, "All right, don't do it like that."
See that? That's exactly what you're not supposed to do. But I wanted to show you that this is very common.
The rules are for thee, not for me. And and I think you're you're right. Um, heat welding flash cove is one of those
things where a lot of people will probably say that they know how to do it or they've seen it done or have done it
once and they're like, "Yeah, I can do that." But until you're like deep into it, it's it's a lot. And even in the the
4day, 5day class that we put on, there's so much information to take in
that it's I just give you the information and it's hands-on because if you're not hands-on almost the entire
time, you're falling behind. So, and my favorite thing in one of them
was the one time when um you know, we had Andy in there and he he came up to me and he was like, "Hey, are we going
to talk about repairs and stuff like that?" And I said, "Oh, there'll be some some moments where we're going to have
some time to talk about repairs because that's a three-day class in itself. You're not going to get it right the
first time. I can guarantee you that." Well, and I still have the picture of of
Andy doing his test with his uh with a piece of cake in one hand and his tools in the other hand.
So, I guess the job was piece cake for him. Jeremy says he met more experienced installers that aren't trainable over
new guys coming in. And yeah, that's because, you know, they they get that mentality of 100%. I've been doing this, I already know how
to do it. J is one of those experiencers. If I'm on a job site and someone says, "I've
been doing this 30 years." I just stop talking because they're not going to listen. You know, you throw that, "I've been doing this 30 years." Like, there's
no no sense in arguing. That's the worst thing. Like, because I've been doing it for 30 plus years
now. And I I can't say that to people because I've heard it so many times in
my life and I don't want to come across as that stubborn old installer who's been doing it for 30 years and I know
everything. So, so get the Jorge's comment there, too. I love that he burned himself with the
welding. It's It's a right of passage. Yeah. I was doing a carpeted training
one time and I I didn't have my knife in my pouch and I reached back and I cut myself and all of
a sudden a band-aid comes out of the crowd to because I was bleeding all over the place. It happens all the time.
Don't bleed on the carpet. That's all you need to know. That's right. Yeah. Uh Eric wants to know if you have
any training out west and I think we are trying to work on something over there.
Um it's just hard to schedule getting the the venues and stuff together and then also the trainers which is um I
guess this is a great avenue to to ask. I mean if you want to be a trainer, if
you know what you're doing, these are the guys to talk to, man. It's it's not they're they're not going to come to you
all the time. It's you reaching out to them. That's where it these relationships start.
There are definitely opportunities right now that we need more we we need more
trainers because we we are going to need to be in more places than we
currently have people. So, anybody who wants is interested in becoming an educational partner with us and becoming
a trainer, talk to me and Sunny. We really we want to work with you and we
want to we want to help. We don't want to put it all on you. We want to market.
We want to have good successful classes and we want qualified trainers training them.
Yeah. So, definitely definitely. And as far as going back to California, I mean,
we've got uh we've got one instructor in Northern California. I don't know if that's northern, but not Southern
California. You didn't. And we've been working with Floor God about trying to get something down in Southern California. Um, so we're we're making
our way out there, but again, not to make excuses, but with the change we've made this summer, um, we got to ramp
back up to get back on schedule to to get those things going. Jeremy says he wants to become a trainer. Um, so
my brother's do what? Jeremy wants to become a trainer. Then I was I pulled up Paul and started reading the comment that he just put in the
private chat. So, he's got to get off it because uh he's got to go coach. He's got some some baseball coming up and
he's one of the coaches so he's stuck. And my microphone is not working very
well anyway. So, boom. Super loud. Thanks everybody.
I like uh I like Nate's comment that uh he's not he's not certified
installer, not because he doesn't screw up, but because of all the screw-ups.
And I had a guy once tell me, you're you'll you're you're a mechanic not when
you don't make mistakes, but you're a mechanic when you can fix the mistakes you make, right? That's when you know you make
true. And I'm looking at Jason's comment there about training is different for commercial and residential. And he is
totally right because in in my world that I live in, most residential installers, they don't fit into my
world. And the same way goes, there's some of these woven, flat weaves that I have no
business even trying to seam up. So, I either don't try or I can admit I need
more training on myself. Yeah. I mean, that's where NFIC comes in. I I was blown away with I was like I
always told Dan I was like, I'm not going to take that class because I don't deal with those materials. And then I
went and I was like, I'll probably never touch this again, but at least I know
the basics if I have to sell something. And yeah, we all we all do that. Blame it on the
helmet. And just a quick quick shout out to Jason Ramsay. He does volunteer for our
u uh moisture certification course that we're just about to launch. He's given a
lot of time up and been on that committee for a while. So I appreciate it. Jason wasn't Jason.
Anybody who wants to volunteer, just reach out to Japan or something. He is right now, I believe. Or if he's
not now, he was. So, so, uh, Kevin says he's very excited about Scott teaming up with the NFCT.
Great decision, and I 100% agree. Um, like you said, you know, over the years,
we've gotten to know each other pretty well and, uh, he's a wealth of knowledge. So, and not
only that, man, he's got the space to to hold some trainings. So, he's going to be there and he's he's ready to rock out
some trainings. That's right. And we have a bunch coming up. It may not be NFCT, but like I
always say, and I have said it from day one from us opening this place, we want to work with everybody. I'll give a
shout out to Jerry Miller because he has a big uh commercial training coming up in August here, commercial inspector
training and he has an all-star lineup coming up like Paul Carroll, Bruce Dentry, Dave Carter, Doyle Slaughter,
Shane Jenkins, Billy Simmons and it's here at our facility and it's going to
be a hands-on inspector class on training inspectors how to be do job starts, job stops. manufacturers are
really big on that kind of stuff. And with Jerry here, we know it's going to be done right. Floor Detective David
Zack, he's got some color correction classes that he's going to do here before the end of the year. We've talked
to AFT. There's going to be a a seaming class here coming up before the end of
the year as well. So, we have some events here and then we're going to build on that within AFCT and have some
of our own trainings to piggy back off those trainings. So, I
We're we're really fortunate. Exciting times. Yeah. I mean, like like we've always
preached anytime, you know, from the first time I've met Sunny, it's always been it's a collaborative in the industry and we have to make sure that
everyone knows that, right? We we're all in this together. So, let's train together. Let's become friends. Let's do
all of this because if if we don't, then we're just pushing the industry further apart. And that's not what we want to
do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can't have five entities teaching five different ways to do
things. It's just not productive. So, um Scott, do you have any of the information about any of those classes
readily available on a website or anything? Uh I can share it. Jerry's I know is the
18th and 19th. I'll share it on social media and I will this month's uh August, sorry.
Okay. Uh David, Zach, and AFT. Those are going to be later in the year, most likely
November. We're looking at for those. So, they're confirming some dates and making sure that everything can work.
And hey, we need to get everybody out. Yeah. And as far as um resilient training, I know we do have one
scheduled right now for the heat weld in Flash Cove and that is in October. It's going to be
in Ohio. I don't want to get the wrong dates, but I want to say October tw the week of October 25th.
Yeah, I'm sure I got it in here somewhere. But, you know, that's coming up. So, if you did want to get some heat weld flash cove training week. Okay.
Yeah. So, we got to got to start somewhere, man, and get in there and have me come
and be like Hudhead and burn your fingers and start up something. Um, you
know, we we've been pretty fortunate to get a lot of projects because of the knowledge that we have on that. And if
that's something that you're looking to do, come out and and learn some stuff. Um, they've got a great facility over in
Columbus and you're you will be your jaw is going to drop. The same thing over at
at at I mean, we walked in there before everything was put together. And, you know, just the vision that he had with
the space and then going in there and seeing what it is now, it's it's come a long way. And I'm 100%, man.
It's I'm so proud of what you guys have have done there and put together and I'm
glad to be a part of it to I'm I'm ready to get down there and and teach a class down there, too.
And it's Georgia and it's air conditioned. That is the key to the whole equation right there.
You need scuba gear to get in the building, but once you're in there, you're fine. That's right.
Hey, real quick. Uh, Jorge just won the best comment of the day. By the way, in
this case, Scotty does know. That's one of my favorite movies. Reference. Yeah,
if y'all don't get it, we can't. He does owe me He owes me uh
a certification because I went to NFIC. So, I told him he would have to get his hands on some vinyl.
So that is that on the Yeah, it is live on the website
on the NFCT nfct.com. You can go under classes there and it'll
say what's coming, but it's in uh yeah, Columbus, Ohio
at America's Floor Source. And then uh I'm sure we will try and get some more stuff scheduled
really soon. It's just uh it's everyone's busy time, so it's hard to uh
sometimes it's hard to even have meetings about stuff because of how much is going on. And I'm sure everyone can
relate because, you know, just getting on the podcast to watch it live is hard enough sometimes.
That's right. Uh Jimmy, it is in Columbus, Ohio. The uh Yeah, Columbus, Ohio at the at America's
Floor Source. And for those of you who don't know Jason Goldberg, he uh he has
a commitment to training his employees like no other company I've ever met in
my life or dealt with. Uh he wants to make sure that his team has all the tools they need to be successful. And
that's what sets him apart from the other I won't even say competitors in the area because they're not
competitors. And um he just he's done it right over there. that facility they
have is is nice. Uh they welcome us anytime we want to be there. So, they're
just good people there. I just want to make sure he gets a Yeah, I want to give a shout out to Jim Freeman, too, because he didn't know
that there was a flooring podcast and I told him the other day and he was so excited. So, he's probably going back in
the archives and watching all the old ones. Oh, no. Don't don't start at episode one.
I don't even I don't even remember what what our episode one was the introduction but I
mean we're I don't even know what episode this is. I mean we're three years in now. So we
definitely appreciate you guys for for listening, watching and and all the comments and and interacting. And
without you guys we would be nothing. So definitely appreciate you. So, make sure you're you're letting everyone know
about us and giving us a like, subscribe, and do the same thing with uh the NFCT and
and Bowmont Flooring. I think a lot of the stuff on social media is going to be posted on your guys' social medias. Um,
as far as the training since that's where it's it's going to be held. Yeah, we'll help everybody. Anybody who
wants to hold a training, I don't care what the organization, even if it's not here, we're going to help promote it.
Speaking of, I believe there's a a regional for an installation competition this weekend that uh we'd really love to
see some more competitors in. So, let's uh let's throw that out there as well in Boston. Yeah. And it's not even competitors at
this point. It's a collaborative. Like I said, we're all in this together. So, let's start acting like it and uh see what we can do to help each
other out. I mean, we're go Carrera, you know, is setting the standard when it
comes to um as the hammer rating now. What it's going to be called in the
future, we don't know yet, but I mean, it's it's patented to where they have
this ready. And it's it's it's amazing. If you're not on there, definitely get on there
and make sure that you get your profile set up. Um
to to know where you're at, right? We're we're all in this. Um I do want to say thanks to Sunny and Scott for joining us
today. Um Scott, congratulations on on the new position with the NFCT and I'm
really excited to to see what you guys are going to come up with. I know uh
big things are always coming and we're this is definitely not the last time you guys are going to be on here. You're
going to be on here again because there's going to be things that are popping up. Um Sunny, thanks for the the
sponsorships. We definitely appreciate that and everything that you do for the industry. And um I just want to one more
time kind of go through what what events are coming up and the dates so that way
people know and then uh we'll do do last words.
Scott, you go ahead and go and I'll look and see what we have. I know Ardex has a bunch of classes and follow us on social media either
Bowmont Flooring and AFCT. Sunny or myself personally, Daniel, he posts a
lot. We'll keep all the trainings as much as we can. We're gonna keep filtering it out there so everybody sees
it. We're really excited about what we're what we're doing here and working
with all of you, working with the colleges, working with the high schools installers. Again, if you're interested
in doing some trainings with us, becoming a trainer for us, reach out to me or Sunny. We really
The more help the better. The more help the better. Absolutely. Thanks for having us on, Daniel. I We really appreciate it. I
always enjoy our talks anyways. Yep. Sunny, you got any? Yeah, I always enjoy it.
So So one of the um one of the things that if you don't realize what we do
this a little bit different than than other associations is we have our educational partners who are
manufacturers host these classes. And a lot of times they cover your hotel stay.
They'll cover your meals while you're there. They'll feed you while you're there. Um, we try to do everything we
can to keep the cost down. Uh, Artex is really big. Lobacle, they're really big about doing that kind of stuff for us.
But, um, so the next classes we have are going to be at Artex on August 28th in
Mansfield, Texas. September, September 17th at Artex in Stockton,
California. September 23rd at Artex in Dallas, Georgia. And then uh October 21st
through 23rd will be at Lobvak which is in Wagsboro, North Carolina. Um all of
those will be the subfloor substrate class and then the one at Lobaka will also be um uh resilient certification.
Nice. And you can find probably all these on the NACT website as well.
NFCT website or NAFFCT.com or uh NFCT on Facebook. So yeah, guys, make sure we're
getting some likes and everything all the way around here because we all share information all the time. So if you're
not uh if you're not a part of it, make sure you're a part of it. Get on the email blast and everything so that way
we can continue all this together. And um like uh Jason said right here, train
the trainer. Um, maybe we'll we'll talk about that stuff in the future, especially when it comes to I would love
to get some people together for the heat welding flash cove and then see how far
we can take that because I'm on a we're on a project right now where we h we had to get called in. I
mean, it was one of our, you know, biggest competitors over here in the area and, you know, talking to them and
the same thing that we were talking about. It's it's not it's not a collaborative the way it
needs to be and we need to start working together and start looking at each other as competitors and you know I I
congratulate them for some of the projects they get and they congratulate me for some of the projects I get and
that's how it should be. That's right. That's right. And if uh
anybody ever needs to get in touch with me, they have a question, you know, I didn't touch on it in the beginning, but I kind of specialize in anything from
the flooring down, adhesives, underllayments, uh concrete, things like that. But you can call me whenever you
want. It's 877 glue dude. G lu du d 877 glue dude
anytime. Rings right here to myself. Oh, Jim said Andy is a heck.
Truth. Truth. Oh, that's a great way to leave off. Well, appreciate you guys. And uh I'm sure this is like I said, this is not
going to be the last time, but uh I I'm so glad that we met all those
years ago, both of you guys. I think it was like right one right after the other. I went to an ASCT event and then
I went and got CFI certified and then we've been talking ever since. So, the these are the kind of uh things that you
have to look forward to if you haven't gotten certified yet. Uh
we're all in this together. Yeah, I appreciate you having us, man. I really do. I look forward to what Scott's going to do with us. Going to
take us to the next level, and I can't wait to see what happens. Very excited. So, uh everyone stay tuned
for the the next episode with these two guys on there. It's not scheduled yet, but I'm sure it's not too far in the
future because big things are going to be happening. [Music]
